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Post by sherlock on Aug 10, 2019 19:32:31 GMT
The Caves of Androzani
As I’m back living at home, I’ve got my whole collection of DVDs at my disposal again so just revisiting some classics I haven’t watched in a while. Caves is superbly acted, plotted and the effects well done (aside from that bloody dragon).
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Post by number13 on Aug 10, 2019 22:17:48 GMT
The Caves of AndrozaniAs I’m back living at home, I’ve got my whole collection of DVDs at my disposal again so just revisiting some classics I haven’t watched in a while. Caves is superbly acted, plotted and the effects well done (aside from that bloody dragon). Bloody lava monster, if you don't mind! That's an original Robert Holmes character you're talking about there...
Yes what a fantastic story, gripping performances and great direction, imo the best story of 80s Who and it felt very contemporary back then, digging into the Central American conflicts of that time with their drug lords, cartels, corrupt governments and foreign interference.
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Post by iainmclaughlin on Aug 11, 2019 11:01:09 GMT
Eeny-meeny-miney... Horror of Fang Rock it is.
One day I shall put this on as a stage play. One day... one day...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 7:47:21 GMT
Eeny-meeny-miney... Horror of Fang Rock it is. One day I shall put this on as a stage play. One day... one day... I'd love to see the technical jiggery-pokery for the Rutan. There's a lot you can do with stage lighting, projectors and glass panes nowadays.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Aug 12, 2019 7:53:36 GMT
Four to Doomsday
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Post by iainmclaughlin on Aug 12, 2019 8:20:31 GMT
Eeny-meeny-miney... Horror of Fang Rock it is. One day I shall put this on as a stage play. One day... one day... I'd love to see the technical jiggery-pokery for the Rutan. There's a lot you can do with stage lighting, projectors and glass panes nowadays. This has been the topic of conversation in the pub many times over the past 20 years. Given that it's basically a closed-house mystery where the rooms are stacked one on top of the other, the way we talked about doing it was with revolving three sided scenery , which we'd spin to say whether it was the boiler room, the crew room or what. Ideally we'd be able to lift the central part of the stage a few feet to show variance of level too. Stairs to the left. Lamp room raised and slightly to the side of the other rooms. Boiler room has a door we can leave through to make the island's rocks front of stage right.
The Rutan and the transformation will all be done with lights projecting a living pulsing effect and we won't actually see the beastie too much.
I think it's incredibly do-able and it would work very well as a claustrophobic bit of horror theatre. I can dream of doing it one day... and following it with Sapphire & Steel: Assignment 2 on stage. One day... one day... when I win the lottery, this is what I'm spending my millions on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 9:46:28 GMT
I'd love to see the technical jiggery-pokery for the Rutan. There's a lot you can do with stage lighting, projectors and glass panes nowadays. This has been the topic of conversation in the pub many times over the past 20 years. Given that it's basically a closed-house mystery where the rooms are stacked one on top of the other, the way we talked about doing it was with revolving three sided scenery , which we'd spin to say whether it was the boiler room, the crew room or what. Ideally we'd be able to lift the central part of the stage a few feet to show variance of level too. Stairs to the left. Lamp room raised and slightly to the side of the other rooms. Boiler room has a door we can leave through to make the island's rocks front of stage right. The Rutan and the transformation will all be done with lights projecting a living pulsing effect and we won't actually see the beastie too much.
I think it's incredibly do-able and it would work very well as a claustrophobic bit of horror theatre. I can dream of doing it one day... and following it with Sapphire & Steel: Assignment 2 on stage. One day... one day... when I win the lottery, this is what I'm spending my millions on.
It's an ingenious idea. Almost like a Wes Anderson-style revolving doll's house. I saw an amateur theatre production that did something similar for their adaptation of Blackadder II. It was very effective. The only technical mishap of note during the whole thing was the lighting rig (it was still being run in, at the time) and that was pretty easily remedied. I can see it being this sickly green glow that meanders like a Mysteron. That sibilant, warbling bubble heralding each strike against the inhabitants of the lighthouse. Light, screams and in the dark -- the patient gurgle of the Rutan. I'd see it. Assignment 2, as well. The seance and Steel's first true contact with the Darkness ("I said, it's here." "Where?" " Hᴇʀᴇ.") feels perfect for that kind of intense theatre. The one that's always stuck in the back of my mind is an episode of The Avengers called "Take-Over". A Terry Nation script. There's no music, very few props and it's largely set in a country home of one of Steed's friends. The premise is extremely chilling in how minimalist it is.
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Post by iainmclaughlin on Aug 13, 2019 9:10:02 GMT
This has been the topic of conversation in the pub many times over the past 20 years. Given that it's basically a closed-house mystery where the rooms are stacked one on top of the other, the way we talked about doing it was with revolving three sided scenery , which we'd spin to say whether it was the boiler room, the crew room or what. Ideally we'd be able to lift the central part of the stage a few feet to show variance of level too. Stairs to the left. Lamp room raised and slightly to the side of the other rooms. Boiler room has a door we can leave through to make the island's rocks front of stage right. The Rutan and the transformation will all be done with lights projecting a living pulsing effect and we won't actually see the beastie too much.
I think it's incredibly do-able and it would work very well as a claustrophobic bit of horror theatre. I can dream of doing it one day... and following it with Sapphire & Steel: Assignment 2 on stage. One day... one day... when I win the lottery, this is what I'm spending my millions on.
It's an ingenious idea. Almost like a Wes Anderson-style revolving doll's house. I saw an amateur theatre production that did something similar for their adaptation of Blackadder II. It was very effective. The only technical mishap of note during the whole thing was the lighting rig (it was still being run in, at the time) and that was pretty easily remedied. I can see it being this sickly green glow that meanders like a Mysteron. That sibilant, warbling bubble heralding each strike against the inhabitants of the lighthouse. Light, screams and in the dark -- the patient gurgle of the Rutan. I'd see it. Assignment 2, as well. The seance and Steel's first true contact with the Darkness ("I said, it's here." "Where?" " Hᴇʀᴇ.") feels perfect for that kind of intense theatre. The one that's always stuck in the back of my mind is an episode of The Avengers called "Take-Over". A Terry Nation script. There's no music, very few props and it's largely set in a country home of one of Steed's friends. The premise is extremely chilling in how minimalist it is. I know the Avengers episode you're talking about. It's a Tara ep - it's really quite a jarring episode, isn't it? Surrounded by the goofy excess of that series is this pared-back minimalist piece you could almost have handed to Hitchcock if he had his experimental head on (thinking "Rope" here). Some of the dialogue in this one's very, very good, as I recall. I'd pay cash money to see that on stage.
The thing about Assignment 2 on stage is that I mentioned it as a thought in tbe pub to a pal, Dan McGachey, who is a really fantastic writer, and he'd had the same idea and had jotted notes on it. He had worked out how he'd do the technical stuff like staging, having the platforms on either side of the stage and a bridge between them... he's a very smart bloke and a fabulously creative brain. When my lottery numbers come up, he'd be the brain behind getting this to stage. He also mentioned that there had been a live version of Quatermass and the Pit - possibly in the open air - which I wish I'd seen.
And just to stay on topic, I'll have The Invasion playing in the background while I work today.
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Post by Whovitt on Aug 14, 2019 8:59:54 GMT
Finally got around to a re-watch of Series 11. Some of the episodes still don't *feel* like Doctor Who to me, but I found the series much more enjoyable than I did on first viewing. Since this has been the case since Series 7 for me, I'm not sure why I think my first impressions will matter in the long run, but they do tend to make me put off watching them again. I'm glad I did finally get back to these episodes though, as they are quite fun on the whole
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 23:01:29 GMT
The Deadly Assassin.
I really enjoy it as a depiction of Time Lord politicking. It's decidedly grim picture of a culture that's begun to sink into stagnation among its jade arches and mist-sodden corridors. There's a real effort to make the Doctor's visit feel like an Event (capital 'E', ominous italics) with the Doctor's introduction and the still quite harrowing image of him forced into the role of assassin and murderer.
Robert Holmes has always excelled at intrigue. One of the great joys of his scripts is the ability to develop this sense of conspiracy between characters and Assassin strikes me as the culmination of that particular skill. It's an exercise in Hitchcockian suspense. Playing that double game with the audience of what we know vs. what the characters know (and vice versa). The Manchurian Candidate influence is strong, but it's also fitting that North by Northwest seems to play a significant part in shaping the story as well. Particularly the structure... which I won't get into because I don't want to spoil Assassin or North too much. Although, I will say that both end with a fight on a national monument -- Mt. Rushmore in the latter, and the Eye of Harmony in the former. On the subject of influences: the third episode is the one that always stuck with me over the years. It's got an interesting bit of background now that I know Holmes fought in Burma as a teenager, as well. It feels frighteningly authentic probably because it comes from a very real place for the writer.
The Deadly Assassin tends to get treated as the archetypal depiction of Gallifrey. From thence whence hence. Seemingly at odds with The War Games and other depictions beforehand, but I rather like the idea that Time Lord justice and politics are at odds with one another for their policies. These two prominent depictions battling it out just beneath the surface. In fact, it's rather fitting that in the Gallifrey series, we end up with a nice little inversion. Romana, representing the new political arm, vs. Darkel, representing the new judiciary arm. With both sides, perhaps ironically embodying the old ideologies of each side (and perhaps the Doctor vs. Valeyard by proxy, but that's a story for another time).
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Post by Whovitt on Aug 20, 2019 13:59:48 GMT
Has anyone else ever had a sudden midnight urge to watch The Dalek Invasion of Earth? I'll be back at approx. 2:30am
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Post by Whovitt on Aug 20, 2019 16:43:17 GMT
Has anyone else ever had a sudden midnight urge to watch The Dalek Invasion of Earth? I'll be back at approx. 2:30am Just as enjoyable as always The thing I like most about re-watching old stories is noticing the little details you haven't noticed before. This time it was the smile on the Doctor's face as he's talking to Tyler at the end of Episode Six. There was something about it that I could picture every other Doctor smiling in the same way. I think those little moments where the individual incarnation melts away and the collective person shines through are some of the best in the whole show.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 20, 2019 22:42:26 GMT
Gonna start something of an eighth Doctor marathon (well, at least of the stories I own), so went back to the Movie. It’s an oddity.
The Movie gets so much right; the theme music is good, the TARDIS is amazing, the Eighth Doctor makes a good first impression (except when screaming ‘no!’, which he does twice), Grace is well characterised, the regeneration scene is very good (aside from that weird bit where the Doctor wanders into a weirdly flooded part of the hospital which is also full of mirrors, what exactly is that meant to be) and heck even the Master isn’t that bad (what can I say, I find the ‘dress for the occasion’ bit funny).
But the plot is dreadful. First off it relies on knowing context for the Doctor and Master, which is a terrible idea for a pilot episode, and then relies on random technobabble. Timing failure, Eye of Harmony, temporal orbit-all of these random phrases are vital to the plot and it’s never explained what these things actually mean. in addition pointless continuity is everywhere, why is it necessary to throw in Skaro, Daleks with godawful voices, the sonic screwdriver and the regeneration limit all within the first 5 minutes?
So yeah, an oddity.
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Post by tuigirl on Aug 21, 2019 6:59:04 GMT
Gonna start something of an eighth Doctor marathon (well, at least of the stories I own), so went back to the Movie. It’s an oddity. The Movie gets so much right; the theme music is good, the TARDIS is amazing, the Eighth Doctor makes a good first impression (except when screaming ‘no!’, which he does twice), Grace is well characterised, the regeneration scene is very good (aside from that weird bit where the Doctor wanders into a weirdly flooded part of the hospital which is also full of mirrors, what exactly is that meant to be) and heck even the Master isn’t that bad (what can I say, I find the ‘dress for the occasion’ bit funny). But the plot is dreadful. First off it relies on knowing context for the Doctor and Master, which is a terrible idea for a pilot episode, and then relies on random technobabble. Timing failure, Eye of Harmony, temporal orbit-all of these random phrases are vital to the plot and it’s never explained what these things actually mean. in addition pointless continuity is everywhere, why is it necessary to throw in Skaro, Daleks with godawful voices, the sonic screwdriver and the regeneration limit all within the first 5 minutes? So yeah, an oddity. I have to admit when I first watched the TV movie, I did not like it. At all. I thought the story made no sense and there were just too many weird bits in there (Master on Skaro, Doctor as half human, ...). And you are absolutely right, as a pilot episode it completely misses it's mark. I was also lost a couple of times as to what was going on. And the info dumps did not help.
However, I think it has grown on me and having watched it a few times, I can kind of follow and it does have some really great scenes (I also have to giggle at the Master dressing for the occasion).
As for the destroyed hospital bit- I think in the audio commentary (need to listen to that again) they say that a scene has been cut showing a storm destroying parts of the hospital. Well, that was kind of a vital scene right there...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 7:11:23 GMT
Gonna start something of an eighth Doctor marathon (well, at least of the stories I own), so went back to the Movie. It’s an oddity. The Movie gets so much right; the theme music is good, the TARDIS is amazing, the Eighth Doctor makes a good first impression (except when screaming ‘no!’, which he does twice), Grace is well characterised, the regeneration scene is very good (aside from that weird bit where the Doctor wanders into a weirdly flooded part of the hospital which is also full of mirrors, what exactly is that meant to be) and heck even the Master isn’t that bad (what can I say, I find the ‘dress for the occasion’ bit funny). But the plot is dreadful. First off it relies on knowing context for the Doctor and Master, which is a terrible idea for a pilot episode, and then relies on random technobabble. Timing failure, Eye of Harmony, temporal orbit-all of these random phrases are vital to the plot and it’s never explained what these things actually mean. in addition pointless continuity is everywhere, why is it necessary to throw in Skaro, Daleks with godawful voices, the sonic screwdriver and the regeneration limit all within the first 5 minutes? So yeah, an oddity. Yeah, the seeds are definitely there, they just needed a bit of fleshing out. I reckon it would've been cool to see the Master use Bruce as a means of seizing control. Hypnotise the hospital staff, bring in a few casualties from Chinatown and you'd have the makings of a forward base. Like Farrel Plastics or Stangmoor Prison. The freshly regenerated Doctor, meanwhile, works with Grace at the Institute to repair the TARDIS. He does his best to keep his secrets, while the Master repeatedly tries to steal his ship. Being so distracted by each assassination attempt (and his post-regenerative aftershock), he not only fixes the TARDIS, but accidentally creates technology that humanity shouldn't have for another 200-300 years. You could even bring in the Daleks by proxy. The Master wants to contact an invasion force to bring them down on the Earth. In fact, the trap that Eight mentions to Grace was meant for Gallifrey, but they'll settle for his adoptive home instead.
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Post by polly on Aug 23, 2019 20:14:02 GMT
Time and the Rani
Oh, my gods. I don't know what more to say than that. This is one I swore I'd never watch again in my life. But somehow I've gotten myself into a bit of a fix: I'm watching through the classic series with a friend of mine and with my husband. Separately, because they're at different places in the show. Well, the friend has arrived at this unhappy point. My husband has only just finished The Daemons, so in another 14 seasons' time, I'll have to watch it again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 21:22:14 GMT
Time and the Rani
Oh, my gods. I don't know what more to say than that. This is one I swore I'd never watch again in my life. But somehow I've gotten myself into a bit of a fix: I'm watching through the classic series with a friend of mine and with my husband. Separately, because they're at different places in the show. Well, the friend has arrived at this unhappy point. My husband has only just finished The Daemons, so in another 14 seasons' time, I'll have to watch it again. You have my deepest sympathy. Even now, over 30 years after the original transmission the memories of the ham served up during that year sends my left eye twitching uncontrollably. At least you now have fourteen seasons to think up a good excuse to avoid Time and the Rani and the horrors that followed. When your husband eventually gets to season 24 might I suggest you start developing a fascination with watching paint dry? 😉
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Aug 24, 2019 12:11:28 GMT
I still havent seen it lol
Gonna have to bite the bullet sometime
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Post by polly on Aug 24, 2019 19:05:19 GMT
You have my deepest sympathy. Even now, over 30 years after the original transmission the memories of the ham served up during that year sends my left eye twitching uncontrollably. At least you now have fourteen seasons to think up a good excuse to avoid Time and the Rani and the horrors that followed. When your husband eventually gets to season 24 might I suggest you start developing a fascination with watching paint dry? 😉 If it were some random story that sucks but doesn't matter like Space Pirates or something I'd be tempted, but the completionist in me says neither of them have seen the classic series before and it's a Doctor's debut, so we shall suffer together. Come to think of it, that means I'll have to see Twin Dilemma again at some point too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2019 6:30:35 GMT
The Invasion of Time.
Bless 'em. Even with no budget, they were still trying to go as grand as they could and it's certainly a grand old idea. A power-mad Doctor returns to Gallifrey to rule over it as a vichy dictator, exiling Leela and using K9 as his saboteur. That has all the makings of a fast-paced thriller.
The Good: The Doctor and Borusa's conversations are exquisitely fun. The old teacher won't be intimidated by his once-favoured student and his old pupil keeps trying to drop hints to him where he can. Leela gets to assert her independence as a companion with the Doctor's plan relying on her to survive in the Gallifreyan wasteland. K9's delightfully flippant as well, I love his rebuttal to Andred's protests about destroying the Academy computers: "We'll give them a day off school. Blow it." Speaking of characterisations, Tom Baker excels as the Doctor convincingly gone mad. It's not another character, but definitely the Fourth Doctor. It's also one of the few times we see him panic. Ever. Across his entire era. Interesting that it's standing orders for TARDISes to be destroyed upon return to Gallifrey. You really can't go home again it seems.
The Bad: I've a strong impression this was where the "running up and down corridors" gag may have stemmed from. It could have worked as a four-parter, but unfortunately, at six, we get an awful lot of people going places in hallways. The Vardans, while great as a transmissable lifeform, lose their sting a bit when they materialise as humanoids. One attack from the Outlers and they scurry away. They're a bit underdeveloped. Come to think of it, there are a few threads here that feel that way. There's no real interaction between the Outsiders and their former Capitol peers outside of Rodan. Nor does Leela's romance really blossom with Andred. There's no sense that they've really formed an attachment beyond friendship, despite the efforts of both actors.
The Ugly: It's not my favourite iteration of the Sontaran makeup, you can't really beat Linx or Stike for memorable faces, but egad if Stor's isn't one you remember. It's stunningly grotesque, particularly the way he licks his lips every so often like a lizard. On the subject of sets, it's a pity that money was so tight. For the return of Gallifrey and the first extensive appearance of the TARDIS's inner workings, the brickwork -- while serviceable -- really doesn't do either justice.
It was a good, solid try. They'd nail the epic season finale -- production values, script and all -- just a year later with The Armageddon Factor, but Invasion feels as though it suffers from trying to do too much with too few resources.
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