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Post by mark687 on Dec 4, 2019 20:50:27 GMT
The War Games
(Epic end of Era 101)
Regards
mark687
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 4, 2019 20:52:13 GMT
The War Games (Epic end of Era 101) Regards mark687 Simply amazing story. Still one of my favorites in the whole franchise.
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Post by Star Platinum on Dec 4, 2019 23:42:02 GMT
Trial of a Timelord: The Mysterious Planet.
Not Holmes best, but still a strong script.
Watching behind the sofa, I can’t get over how ageless Nicola Bryant is. Also her natural accent is lovely.
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Post by timegirl on Dec 5, 2019 3:01:58 GMT
Just rewatched Husbands of River Song, a lot of which is fairly light and fluffy until that ending ❤️😢😊 As much as I love 12 and Clara as a couple, I do think he has some of the best chemistry out all the Doctors with River Song😀I think it’s kind of cute how oblivious River is to who 12 is and how 12 doesn’t tell her until the last minute 😄😊 I also enjoy Nardole’s introduction and the headless King Hydroflx 😄 But, that ending,THAT ENDING has to be both one of the most heartbreaking and heartwarming endings in all of New Who 💔❤️ It’s such a beautiful conclusion to the Doctor and River’s relationship I find myself tearing up even thinking about it😢😊
On a side note I always wondered what exactly happened on those 24 years on Delirium.....I bet they got into all sorts of mad adventures 😀
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Post by constonks on Dec 5, 2019 3:08:23 GMT
For the first time ever - as part of my Christmas With (or in this case, Without) the Doctor - the K9 & Company pilot. It's obviously silly and light on the plot but Elisabeth Sladen is on top form and K9 is always great to have around. Another standout is the actress who played Juno Baker - Linda Polan. I really liked her tone, right down the middle between friendly and menacing and I never really knew whether to trust her or not. Although I can't help but compare Brendan Richards to his Doctor Who contemporary Adric - I imagine viewers at the time were thrilled to have a second precocious genius companion kicking around the world of Who!
Anyway, I can see well enough why no-one commissioned a series but it is a bit sad that they didn't bring back Sarah and K9 a few more times, for more holiday specials or appearances on Doctor Who (other than K9's cameo in The Five Doctors). If only to see K9 get spooked by another "garden goblin".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 11:24:59 GMT
For the first time ever - as part of my Christmas With (or in this case, Without) the Doctor - the K9 & Company pilot. It's obviously silly and light on the plot but Elisabeth Sladen is on top form and K9 is always great to have around. Another standout is the actress who played Juno Baker - Linda Polan. I really liked her tone, right down the middle between friendly and menacing and I never really knew whether to trust her or not. Although I can't help but compare Brendan Richards to his Doctor Who contemporary Adric - I imagine viewers at the time were thrilled to have a second precocious genius companion kicking around the world of Who! Anyway, I can see well enough why no-one commissioned a series but it is a bit sad that they didn't bring back Sarah and K9 a few more times, for more holiday specials or appearances on Doctor Who (other than K9's cameo in The Five Doctors). If only to see K9 get spooked by another "garden goblin". Yeah. In hindsight, maybe they should've led with the idea that K9 was sent by the Master to cause trouble for Sarah. It would've given the show's resident computer specialist a strong reason to stick around and added a bit of uncertainty to this new version of K9. A bit more autonomy. I don't know why they didn't scoop up Bob Baker and/or Dave Martin to write it. Maybe they were involved on other projects? Pilot episodes tend to have it rough, but it's really hard to tell what kind of show K9 and Company was going to be. A return to The Avengers? Inspector Rex, a decade-and-a-half early? Earthbound Who for the 80s? It might've been interesting to see Sarah and K9 going up against cultists with 80s technology. All the old rituals and ambitions, but aided with cutting-edge electronics and ideas. Need a rich energy source to bind a creature after a ritual -- why not trap it in the cooling tower of a nuclear power site? How about a retelling of The Shadow of Innsmouth with Sarah fighting alongside the Sea Devil "fishmen" who the cult are trying to drive out?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 18:40:03 GMT
The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar
A series finale at the beginning of the series! Ood, Judoon, Missy, Davros, UNIT and of course, those bothersome pepperpots. Massively over-blown, of course, and some larger-than-life dialogue, but what a huge amount of fun. Of all the wonderful, cinematic characters, I think my favourite moments are provided by Michelle Gomez. I'd almost forgotten how good she was as the Doctor's nemesis. We have the guitar-playing Doctor on a tank, it's true, but not everything can be perfect.
Glorious.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2019 19:37:31 GMT
The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar
A series finale at the beginning of the series! Ood, Judoon, Missy, Davros, UNIT and of course, those bothersome pepperpots. Massively over-blown, of course, and some larger-than-life dialogue, but what a huge amount of fun. Of all the wonderful, cinematic characters, I think my favourite moments are provided by Michelle Gomez. I'd almost forgotten how good she was as the Doctor's nemesis. We have the guitar-playing Doctor on a tank, it's true, but not everything can be perfect.
Glorious. That is THE best scene. Of the whole series.
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Post by timegirl on Dec 5, 2019 19:49:55 GMT
The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar
A series finale at the beginning of the series! Ood, Judoon, Missy, Davros, UNIT and of course, those bothersome pepperpots. Massively over-blown, of course, and some larger-than-life dialogue, but what a huge amount of fun. Of all the wonderful, cinematic characters, I think my favourite moments are provided by Michelle Gomez. I'd almost forgotten how good she was as the Doctor's nemesis. We have the guitar-playing Doctor on a tank, it's true, but not everything can be perfect.
Glorious. That is THE best scene. Of the whole series. I second that!🎸😀
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2019 20:03:18 GMT
That is THE best scene. Of the whole series. I second that!🎸😀 I mean, how is anything going to top that? Most epic scene in recent television.
And sooooo much indicative on what this show is. It might look completely non-sensical and random from the outside, but it just showcases the possibilities and weirdness.
Just this week someone shared a meme on Facebook of the 11th Doctor with fez and cleaning mop talking to Roman Rory. Caption reads: "Our fandom must look so weird from the outside." I LOVED that one. It all makes sense in context.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 20:50:34 GMT
I love the replies, even if I don't really agree (which is fine - it's great that we all see different things in the show). Even Clara said "This isn't you," to the Doctor. And she's right, I think. This scene represented such a stylistic change of character for the 12th Doctor after the previous series. I can't imagine a scene like this taking place in Series 8.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2019 21:33:39 GMT
I love the replies, even if I don't really agree (which is fine - it's great that we all see different things in the show). Even Clara said "This isn't you," to the Doctor. And she's right, I think. This scene represented such a stylistic change of character for the 12th Doctor after the previous series. I can't imagine a scene like this taking place in Series 8. I think I really like the stylistic change that took place. In my opinion it was the right choice (series 9 is an improvement to series 8, and series 10 is, for me, the pinnacle of New Who).
But that said, I am totally fine with the explanation of the Doctor having a "midlife crisis". I know that there are other people, also on this forum, who disagree and think the changes in style and character are jarring and beyond suspension of disbelief.
But all that aside- just by itself, how awesome is the fact the Doctor was playing the guitar while riding a tank?
I personally cannot understand how someone cannot appreciate this (and please keep in mind I come from outside the fandom and once thought the show was a bunch of ridiculous male cattle droppings, exactly because of scenes like that).
Have I become too childish? Do I not take this serious enough? Or are the other people unable to loosen up?
Who is right?
Not sure.
No, it would not have happened in series 8. But I am glad it did happen.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 22:05:44 GMT
I love the replies, even if I don't really agree (which is fine - it's great that we all see different things in the show). Even Clara said "This isn't you," to the Doctor. And she's right, I think. This scene represented such a stylistic change of character for the 12th Doctor after the previous series. I can't imagine a scene like this taking place in Series 8. I think I really like the stylistic change that took place. In my opinion it was the right choice (series 9 is an improvement to series 8, and series 10 is, for me, the pinnacle of New Who).
But that said, I am totally fine with the explanation of the Doctor having a "midlife crisis". I know that there are other people, also on this forum, who disagree and think the changes in style and character are jarring and beyond suspension of disbelief.
But all that aside- just by itself, how awesome is the fact the Doctor was playing the guitar while riding a tank?
I personally cannot understand how someone cannot appreciate this (and please keep in mind I come from outside the fandom and once thought the show was a bunch of ridiculous male cattle droppings, exactly because of scenes like that).
Have I become too childish? Do I not take this serious enough? Or are the other people unable to loosen up?
Who is right?
Not sure.
No, it would not have happened in series 8. But I am glad it did happen.
I should point out that I'm a huge fan of Capaldi's Doctor, and I'm a big fan of the 12th, slightly crusty Doctor, mellowing over time (Clara's hand-written instructions on how the Doctor should behave in moments of emotion are charming) - and I don't hate the guitar/tank combination (!). I just think it is too much of a change, too soon. A gradual softening of the character would have been great, but this sudden 'look at me, look how eccentric I now am' moment is, I don't know ... I'm not a huge fan (although I think the accompanying story is mostly excellent). Other people like it, I'm not convinced. Tuigirl, you are not too childish at all, and the scene isn't meant to be taken too seriously. Perhaps I'm guilty of that
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 5, 2019 22:11:55 GMT
I think I really like the stylistic change that took place. In my opinion it was the right choice (series 9 is an improvement to series 8, and series 10 is, for me, the pinnacle of New Who).
But that said, I am totally fine with the explanation of the Doctor having a "midlife crisis". I know that there are other people, also on this forum, who disagree and think the changes in style and character are jarring and beyond suspension of disbelief.
But all that aside- just by itself, how awesome is the fact the Doctor was playing the guitar while riding a tank?
I personally cannot understand how someone cannot appreciate this (and please keep in mind I come from outside the fandom and once thought the show was a bunch of ridiculous male cattle droppings, exactly because of scenes like that).
Have I become too childish? Do I not take this serious enough? Or are the other people unable to loosen up?
Who is right?
Not sure.
No, it would not have happened in series 8. But I am glad it did happen.
I should point out that I'm a huge fan of Capaldi's Doctor, and I'm a big fan of the 12th, slightly crusty Doctor, mellowing over time (Clara's hand-written instructions on how the Doctor should behave in moments of emotion are charming) - and I don't hate the guitar/tank combination (!). I just think it is too much of a change, too soon. A gradual softening of the character would have been great, but this sudden 'look at me, look how eccentric I now am' moment is, I don't know ... I'm not a huge fan (although I think the accompanying story is mostly excellent). Other people like it, I'm not convinced. Tuigirl, you are not too childish at all, and the scene isn't meant to be taken too seriously. Perhaps I'm guilty of that I understand where you are coming from. It makes total sense what you say.
I think the only fault with that scene is (as you say) that they plugged it into that episode for maximum impact and to achieve the maximum WTF? factor, independent from how it fitted and how much sense it made. It just was this sudden WHAM!
It certainly succeeds in gaining maximum attention.
I still love it to bits.
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Post by polly on Dec 6, 2019 19:27:10 GMT
I can't abide the tank/guitar scene either. I thought it was excessive and embarrassing. It also came at a point where I was continuing to sour on the new series, a slow process begun during Series 6, with a brief reprieve in 8.
Others may feel that it's awesome for the sheer absurdity of it all, but to me it typifies one of the biggest issues I have with the revival - going way, way too far with things, especially the "look at us, aren't we quirky" crap. If I remember correctly, my husband and I just kind of looked at each other and sighed.
I like Peter Capaldi, I don't like Steven Moffat's foibles in anything more than single doses, I think. This seemed to me like they were trying to backpedal from the rougher-edged "I'm not your boyfriend" doctor to something closer to 10/11's wackiness to appeal to the fangirls or something.
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Post by timegirl on Dec 6, 2019 20:50:51 GMT
I can't abide the tank/guitar scene either. I thought it was excessive and embarrassing. It also came at a point where I was continuing to sour on the new series, a slow process begun during Series 6, with a brief reprieve in 8. Others may feel that it's awesome for the sheer absurdity of it all, but to me it typifies one of the biggest issues I have with the revival - going way, way too far with things, especially the "look at us, aren't we quirky" crap. If I remember correctly, my husband and I just kind of looked at each other and sighed. I like Peter Capaldi, I don't like Steven Moffat's foibles in anything more than single doses, I think. This seemed to me like they were trying to backpedal from the rougher-edged "I'm not your boyfriend" doctor to something closer to 10/11's wackiness to appeal to the fangirls or something. I see where you are coming from 🤔but I personally love the scene and thinks it fits perfectly in context😀🎸If you think about it makes perfect sense for 12 to do something outrageous as playing a guitar on a tank, he thinks he is about to die and is having one last party to go out on a high note🥳 The characterization change between series 8 and 9 are character development for 12. 12 is the midlife crisis Doctor trying to figure himself out. To me, the whole “I’m not your boyfriend” scene, was more 12 being self defeatist because he felt like Clara had rejected him in his new body. I agree that maybe the change in 12’s personality was maybe a bit to fast in between seasons, which is maybe a gap Big Finish could explore once they have Peter Capaldi. I do in the long run think that even if it is a bit rushed, I think 12’s loosening up in series 9 is important for his character arc. He feels like he has more of a chance with Clara ( after Last Christmas)he knows who he is more (an idiot with a screwdriver helping those in need), of course he is going to loosen up a bit and relax. 12’s story is a coming of age story if you think about it: he’s dealing with heaps of anxiety over finding himself and his identity, major insecurity with awkward bodily changes, navigating romance, and dealing with emotions he frequently has no idea how to deal with, in other words he’s a bit like a teenager in an older gentleman’s body.
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Post by theotherjosh on Dec 6, 2019 20:52:26 GMT
I can't abide the tank/guitar scene either. I thought it was excessive and embarrassing. It also came at a point where I was continuing to sour on the new series, a slow process begun during Series 6, with a brief reprieve in 8. Others may feel that it's awesome for the sheer absurdity of it all, but to me it typifies one of the biggest issues I have with the revival - going way, way too far with things, especially the "look at us, aren't we quirky" crap. If I remember correctly, my husband and I just kind of looked at each other and sighed. I sat out most of the Matt Smith years. I watched the Eleventh Hour, thought, "This is good TV, but this isn't what I want from Doctor Who" and only returned for the occasional highly lauded episode to see if my opinion had changed. The Doctor's Wife and such. And that's fine. Doctor Who isn't a program as much as it is a series of programs. Not everything is going to appeal to everyone and I've got 50 years of television and books and Big Finish to wait out the periods that aren't to my liking. I watched more regularly when Capaldi assumed the role, but my it turned out my issue was not with Matt Smith but Moffat as a showrunner. (Not looking to get in a fight about this; just observing that his vision for the program was not what I wanted to see.) I gave up as a regular viewer about halfway through Capaldi's first series, but I'd poke my head in from time to time to see if the show or my tastes were any different. That tank was just a "Nope" moment for me. To the point where I just sat up and turned it off and did something else instead.
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Post by polly on Dec 6, 2019 21:03:26 GMT
I see where you are coming from 🤔but I personally love the scene and thinks it fits perfectly in context😀🎸If you think about it makes perfect sense for 12 to do something outrageous as playing a guitar on a tank, he thinks he is about to die and is having one last party to go out on a high note🥳 The characterization change between series 8 and 9 are character development for 12. 12 is the midlife crisis Doctor trying to figure himself out. To me, the whole “I’m not your boyfriend” scene, was more 12 being self defeatist because he felt like Clara had rejected him in his new body. I agree that maybe the change in 12’s personality was maybe a bit to fast in between seasons, which is maybe a gap Big Finish could explore once they have Peter Capaldi. I do in the long run think that even if it is a bit rushed, I think 12’s loosening up in series 9 is important for his character arc. He feels like he has more of a chance with Clara ( after Last Christmas)he knows who he is more (an idiot with a screwdriver helping those in need), of course he is going to loosen up a bit and relax. 12’s story is a coming of age story if you think about it: he’s dealing with heaps of anxiety over finding himself and his identity, major insecurity with awkward bodily changes, navigating romance, and dealing with emotions he frequently has no idea how to deal with, in other words he’s a bit like a teenager in an older gentleman’s body. I don't mind him softening over time, but like you said, it seemed abrupt and too far too soon. And personally I would have liked that depicted with a little more subtlety lol. I sat out most of the Matt Smith years. I watched the Eleventh Hour, thought, "This is good TV, but this isn't what I want from Doctor Who" and only returned for the occasional highly lauded episode to see if my opinion had changed. The Doctor's Wife and such. And that's fine. Doctor Who isn't a program as much as it is a series of programs. Not everything is going to appeal to everyone and I've got 50 years of television and books and Big Finish to wait out the periods that aren't to my liking. I watched more regularly when Capaldi assumed the role, but my it turned out my issue was not with Matt Smith but Moffat as a showrunner. (Not looking to get in a fight about this; just observing that his vision for the program was not what I wanted to see.) I gave up as a regular viewer about halfway through Capaldi's first series, but I'd poke my head in from time to time to see if the show or my tastes were any different. That tank was just a "Nope" moment for me. To the point where I just sat up and turned it off and did something else instead. I can definitely sympathize with that. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who likes episodes I don't.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 6, 2019 21:08:28 GMT
I can definitely sympathize with that. I certainly don't begrudge anyone who likes episodes I don't. Well, there would not be much for us to discuss if we all had the same opinion.
Love the discussion developing here. Good points made by both sides.
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Post by mrperson on Dec 8, 2019 22:41:59 GMT
I can't abide the tank/guitar scene either. I thought it was excessive and embarrassing. It also came at a point where I was continuing to sour on the new series, a slow process begun during Series 6, with a brief reprieve in 8. Others may feel that it's awesome for the sheer absurdity of it all, but to me it typifies one of the biggest issues I have with the revival - going way, way too far with things, especially the "look at us, aren't we quirky" crap. If I remember correctly, my husband and I just kind of looked at each other and sighed.I like Peter Capaldi, I don't like Steven Moffat's foibles in anything more than single doses, I think. This seemed to me like they were trying to backpedal from the rougher-edged "I'm not your boyfriend" doctor to something closer to 10/11's wackiness to appeal to the fangirls or something. Yes yes, and yes again. The wife and I rolled our eyes while sighing.
...but then I'm a bit of curmudgeon at times...
There was too much random this, that, then the other thing. I'm not putting it clearly, but then I've had insomnia 3 out of the last 4 nights so I'm having trouble thinking anywhere near straight. I love more straight sci-fi (Inferno), or philosophical/meditative mixed with action (Genesis), or clever with a bit of action but the whole thing makes sense (Aquitaine ; The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone), super-clever (Blink), pure historicals (The Marian Conspiracy; The Romans), or sort of historicals (The Time Meddler).
I think this can generally be summarized as: I like the show when it takes itself seriously, but I don't mind humor. It has to be done right, though. I loved S5 overall. Some episodes maybe not, but overall I was extremely exited for S6. ButS6-9 it got choppy. There are some episodes I like/love, but there's a lot of cringing for me. S10 was quite an improvement, but S11 finally felt like it's all back on track: individual stories for their own sake.
However, BF has the highest win rate for me at this point and not by a little.
I suppose it's time to rewatch S10
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