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Post by christmastrenzalore on Jan 1, 2020 20:14:05 GMT
A little too busy in the first half, but once it hit a steady stride, I really started enjoying it. Did not see the ending coming AT ALL. Didn't even suspect the guy. 'Spyfall' Part 1 {Spoiler}Or 'How To Piss Over A Redemption Arc In About Two Minutes Flat'... TBF, we don't know whether he's post-Missy or not. And even if he is, she was only on the fence. A little regeneration could justify a relapse. Why does the Master always have to played as a raving madman? Where is the subtleties of Delgado? The charm? I'd like a more subdued Master too, but given his elation at his little game, makes sense he'd crank up the manic. He displayed plenty of restraint and genteel qualities in his spy persona. So we'll see how it goes.
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Post by muckypup on Jan 1, 2020 20:14:21 GMT
God that was terrible, badly written, poor production, looks like a cheap cbbc now........... If it’s took a year to produce this, no wonder people are turning to Netflix
Everyone trying best with what they got but it looks so cheap and under funded now.........with a stupid story that’s ......well let’s be kind and say it’s written for the budget
Very sad, I thought series two would come back fighting instead we got barely a whimper
After a terrific run of genre shows on other channels this was well below par
i turned it of 10 mins before end, so if that was fantastic production I might have got it wrong
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jan 1, 2020 20:15:45 GMT
(gobsmacked) "WHAT?!!!"
Loved it! Tim.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 1, 2020 20:17:01 GMT
Sorry, is 1 or 5 the best, pollwise?
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Post by ollychops on Jan 1, 2020 20:17:21 GMT
Pretty good - still felt like it was dragging a bit about two-thirds of the way through though, but generally better than most of Chibnall's S11 stories, so hopefully it holds up with Part 2. Gonna shove the rest all under a spoiler tag... {Spoiler} Honestly the bigger cliffhanger would have been if he wasn't the Master, because pretty much as soon as he was cast, all talk was about him being a potential new Master. Which is fine, I like the casting, but to me I felt like he was channelling John Simm... hopefully he's not quite so Simm-ish in Part 2.
My main problem is it coming so soon after Missy. Yes, they were never going to leave the Master dead permanently, and yes, it's been - what? - 2 years in our time since we last saw the Master, but it seems way too soon to bring him back following Missy's redemption arc. I'll be fine if it's a pre-Missy Master (though, not sure where they'd put him?), or a parallel Master (given the mention about parallel Earth's earlier on?).
I'll wait and see how they explain this, but right now I'm not convinced at all.
But on the plus side (Because I hate being negative)! The Master finally has his own TARDIS again, and I loved the callback to the TCE.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:17:40 GMT
Great fun, employing loads of spy movie tropes. Everything whizzed by. It looked fantastic. I had no idea where the plot was going. & that final few minutes! Amazing! This was everything I want in Doctor Who!
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 1, 2020 20:23:53 GMT
Pretty good - still felt like it was dragging a bit about two-thirds of the way through though, but generally better than most of Chibnall's S11 stories, so hopefully it holds up with Part 2. Gonna shove the rest all under a spoiler tag... {Spoiler} Honestly the bigger cliffhanger would have been if he wasn't the Master, because pretty much as soon as he was cast, all talk was about him being a potential new Master. Which is fine, I like the casting, but to me I felt like he was channelling John Simm... hopefully he's not quite so Simm-ish in Part 2.
My main problem is it coming so soon after Missy. Yes, they were never going to leave the Master dead permanently, and yes, it's been - what? - 2 years in our time since we last saw the Master, but it seems way too soon to bring him back following Missy's redemption arc. I'll be fine if it's a pre-Missy Master (though, not sure where they'd put him?), or a parallel Master (given the mention about parallel Earth's earlier on?).
I'll wait and see how they explain this, but right now I'm not convinced at all.
But on the plus side (Because I hate being negative)! The Master finally has his own TARDIS again, and I loved the callback to the TCE. I wouldn't say dragging. In fact the opposite: I thought it was maybe a bit too busy in the first two thirds. Otherwise, yep, you pretty much said what I was going to. Enjoyable but reserve full judgement for Sunday.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 1, 2020 20:24:19 GMT
I will add: I loved Akinola's Bond riffs during the casino segments. It was the right note of tongue-in-cheek and it gave me a stupid-big grin.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 1, 2020 20:29:15 GMT
Sorry, is 1 or 5 the best, pollwise? I'm assuming 5 is best Regards mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:30:22 GMT
It was a really fun hour of telly, I thought. Still not terribly much beyond the most shallow of characters for anyone but I'm kinda resigned to that now. Segun's score was fun, with homages to John Barry, Thomas Newman and David Arnold's Bond scores in places. Lenny Henry was a bit of fun though Stephen Fry was a waste, really. He played it a bit too CBBC as well wheras Henry "gets" it, you take the ridiclous stuff seriously. Mandip again was the strongest link of all 4 here, showing with her reaction shots and the way she sells everthing how a top tier companion brings you into the story. She's funny, excited, emboldened, scared, haunted and convinces on all fronts. Am I the only one who had zero idea Sacha Dhawan was in this? Then when I realised he was a) a surprise (at least to me) big name guest star and b) one of the bookies favourites' to actually be The Doctor before Jodie was cast I did start to wonder how those two would meet the shock ending to Ep 1 we'd been promised - why get a really prominent actor like Sacha to just be a 5th wheel companion? While I didn't think it would be The Master at first... the Spymaster line was far too telegraphed being so awkwardly phrased as to bring attention to itself, sadly, and I really did click. I get the bait and switch attempt but just getting that clumsy Spymaster line out the way would be more satisfying I think. You have a pretty regular conversation with one awkward bit of dialogue that's purely for a later reveal and it's gonna stand out - Chekov's signposting? I'd like to hope there's more going on here. Just having Missy's redemption be chucked under the bus for another ranting loony mad Master would be a step backwards. When the characters last met they were on the best terms in dozens of lives for each of them. Would seem odd to just retcon that. Still, we don't know what's happening just yet - The Master leaving with the "everything you know is a lie" brings me hope there's something else under this reveal that is yet to play out. We don't even know, I suppose, this is a post-Missy Master.
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Post by ollychops on Jan 1, 2020 20:31:36 GMT
Pretty good - still felt like it was dragging a bit about two-thirds of the way through though, but generally better than most of Chibnall's S11 stories, so hopefully it holds up with Part 2. Gonna shove the rest all under a spoiler tag... {Spoiler} Honestly the bigger cliffhanger would have been if he wasn't the Master, because pretty much as soon as he was cast, all talk was about him being a potential new Master. Which is fine, I like the casting, but to me I felt like he was channelling John Simm... hopefully he's not quite so Simm-ish in Part 2.
My main problem is it coming so soon after Missy. Yes, they were never going to leave the Master dead permanently, and yes, it's been - what? - 2 years in our time since we last saw the Master, but it seems way too soon to bring him back following Missy's redemption arc. I'll be fine if it's a pre-Missy Master (though, not sure where they'd put him?), or a parallel Master (given the mention about parallel Earth's earlier on?).
I'll wait and see how they explain this, but right now I'm not convinced at all.
But on the plus side (Because I hate being negative)! The Master finally has his own TARDIS again, and I loved the callback to the TCE. I wouldn't say dragging. In fact the opposite: I thought it was maybe a bit too busy in the first two thirds. Otherwise, yep, you pretty much said what I was going to. Honestly, I'm not sure 'dragging' is the right word. There were a few moments towards that time that seemed to be heading towards a cliffhanger so I was expecting it to wrap up and then it just carried on, so I kept wondering if it was nearly over (so it's not necessarily a bad thing?).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:36:54 GMT
God that was terrible, badly written, poor production, looks like a cheap cbbc now........... If it’s took a year to produce this, no wonder people are turning to Netflix Everyone trying best with what they got but it looks so cheap and under funded now.........with a stupid story that’s ......well let’s be kind and say it’s written for the budget Very sad, I thought series two would come back fighting instead we got barely a whimper After a terrific run of genre shows on other channels this was well below par i turned it of 10 mins before end, so if that was fantastic production I might have got it wrong Can you send the names of the CBBC shows with productions, locations and sets like that to me in a PM please? Would love to see them!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:40:19 GMT
with 'Vor' as the name of the evil organization, well, I wondered if the Voord might be making a comeback? Well, you never know. I thought, what with the internet aspect, it was going to be Voractyl behind it. (Oh, all right, I didn't really think that, but you'd've thought that after the Kate Stewart debacle that Chibbers would have checked all his names against tardis fandom in case they've already been used). Why does the Master always have to played as a raving madman? Where is the subtleties of Delgado? The charm? 'Spyfall' Part 1 {Spoiler}{Spoiler} Or 'How To Piss Over A Redemption Arc In About Two Minutes Flat'... I'm wondering whether this is actually a full-blown new incarnation of the Master, or just John Simm in a rubber mask. Sacha Dhawan (ah, never trust the character that isn't in the Radio Times credits!) is definitely playing him as John Simm rather than striking out with a new characterisation, to my mind. You may be right, but I'd love for this new version to be The Master in his own right. How many of the blighters have we had now, by the way? Not that I'm complaining.
To go back to a previous point about the redemption arc, I don't think Steven Moffat would have written that in the belief that the Master would ever be evil again. Rules are there to be broken, especially in Doctor Who. Two things spring to mind - a new regeneration, a new blank slate. Secondly, 'everything that you think you know is a lie' could well be a mantra for this series.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:42:47 GMT
Pretty good - still felt like it was dragging a bit about two-thirds of the way through though, but generally better than most of Chibnall's S11 stories, so hopefully it holds up with Part 2. Gonna shove the rest all under a spoiler tag... {Spoiler} Honestly the bigger cliffhanger would have been if he wasn't the Master, because pretty much as soon as he was cast, all talk was about him being a potential new Master. Which is fine, I like the casting, but to me I felt like he was channelling John Simm... hopefully he's not quite so Simm-ish in Part 2.
My main problem is it coming so soon after Missy. Yes, they were never going to leave the Master dead permanently, and yes, it's been - what? - 2 years in our time since we last saw the Master, but it seems way too soon to bring him back following Missy's redemption arc. I'll be fine if it's a pre-Missy Master (though, not sure where they'd put him?), or a parallel Master (given the mention about parallel Earth's earlier on?).
I'll wait and see how they explain this, but right now I'm not convinced at all.
But on the plus side (Because I hate being negative)! The Master finally has his own TARDIS again, and I loved the callback to the TCE. When was Sacha's casting announced? It honestly went under my radar. I knew Fry and Henry but I'm a fan of Sacha and all I thought I was seeing him in this week was the new Dracula!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:47:05 GMT
I thought, what with the internet aspect, it was going to be Voractyl behind it. (Oh, all right, I didn't really think that, but you'd've thought that after the Kate Stewart debacle that Chibbers would have checked all his names against tardis fandom in case they've already been used). I'm wondering whether this is actually a full-blown new incarnation of the Master, or just John Simm in a rubber mask. Sacha Dhawan (ah, never trust the character that isn't in the Radio Times credits!) is definitely playing him as John Simm rather than striking out with a new characterisation, to my mind. You may be right, but I'd love for this new version to be The Master in his own right. How many of the blighters have we had now, by the way? Not that I'm complaining.
To go back to a previous point about the redemption arc, I don't think Steven Moffat would have written that in the belief that the Master would ever be evil again. Rules are there to be broken, especially in Doctor Who. Two things spring to mind - a new regeneration, a new blank slate. Secondly, 'everything that you think you know is a lie' could well be a mantra for this series.
I don't think anyone would mind if The Master were to be evil again but it depends on how it's sold. To go from Missy's arc just straight back to laughing panto Master wouldn't be terribly satisying to the narrative for me. But, I said the same in my post - that line from Sacha gives me hope there's something else going on here.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 1, 2020 20:48:35 GMT
Pretty good - still felt like it was dragging a bit about two-thirds of the way through though, but generally better than most of Chibnall's S11 stories, so hopefully it holds up with Part 2. Gonna shove the rest all under a spoiler tag... {Spoiler} Honestly the bigger cliffhanger would have been if he wasn't the Master, because pretty much as soon as he was cast, all talk was about him being a potential new Master. Which is fine, I like the casting, but to me I felt like he was channelling John Simm... hopefully he's not quite so Simm-ish in Part 2.
My main problem is it coming so soon after Missy. Yes, they were never going to leave the Master dead permanently, and yes, it's been - what? - 2 years in our time since we last saw the Master, but it seems way too soon to bring him back following Missy's redemption arc. I'll be fine if it's a pre-Missy Master (though, not sure where they'd put him?), or a parallel Master (given the mention about parallel Earth's earlier on?).
I'll wait and see how they explain this, but right now I'm not convinced at all.
But on the plus side (Because I hate being negative)! The Master finally has his own TARDIS again, and I loved the callback to the TCE. When was Sacha's casting announced? It honestly went under my radar. I knew Fry and Henry but I'm a fan of Sacha and all I thought I was seeing him in this week was the new Dracula! I think it was just rumoured. Like James Buckley was common knowledge for a while but they only officially announced him the other day.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:49:51 GMT
I'd like to hope there's more going on here. Just having Missy's redemption be chucked under the bus for another ranting loony mad Master would be a step backwards. When the characters last met they were on the best terms in dozens of lives for each of them. Would seem odd to just retcon that. Still, we don't know what's happening just yet - The Master leaving with the "everything you know is a lie" brings me hope there's something else under this reveal that is yet to play out. We don't even know, I suppose, this is a post-Missy Master. The reveal was so unexpected & fun for me that I didn't think about that until later. But I agree about the problem with this being a post-Missy Master. I always thought that end for her was such a perfect way to give a send off for the Master. Dying at their own hands rather than turn good. Of course Moffat did give any future showrunner some wiggle room by not showing the regeneration from Simm to Gomez. All we need is a quick throwaway line from the Master, "so you're a woman now, I must try that sometime".
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Post by scriptortempore on Jan 1, 2020 20:51:18 GMT
Put my thoughts below but they contain numerous serious spoilers so you've been warned: {Spoiler} Honestly, I think there were a few pros in this episode and an awful lot of cons.
Let's start with the good. As always with Chibnall the emotional stuff felt excellent, Yaz's tears got me and the whole give Ryan the number thing really felt like these characters have interesting, complex and normal relationships. Which is always a plus. Most importantly for me, the emotional moments felt genuine. I got a sense last series of the emotional moments being crowbared into the story. The plot itself would just stop and you'd get your set emotional time and then it would continue, without much importance or consequence. But this episode didn't feel like that. It was integrated nicely into the plot and whilst Yaz seemed a bit shakier I'm sure the consequences of that will come in the next episode. Yaz and Ryan were both acted wonderfully this episode which is great too!
As others have mentioned, the music was pretty good and nicely referenced the 007 films.
But for me, that's where a lot of the good stuff ends. One third of the episode felt like a pointless A to B of getting the Doctor to work for MI6, all that should've been needed was a ring from UNIT, a brief exposition dump or move the attack on the Doctor in the TARDIS starting the episode off and having her go to UNIT. But because that's gone (for no good reason), that's out of the question. And instead we got a pretty boring runaround for that first third, with a pretty mediocrely acted cameo by Fry. Everything seemed to soar when the party scene started, great music, great action and theeeeeeeen, that reveal.
This portrayal of the Master as a mad lunatic is a bit boring, we've seen it with Simm and early Missy, it's done. I was doubly disappointed because if I'm honest, I thought O was not well acted at all and was waiting for him to go! So for him to become an actor of a new incarnation, well, I'll just say I hope this one becomes a one and done incarnation like Roberts. I think it's significantly worse given only 2ish years ago we had The Doctor Falls, a fantastic episode which killed off the Master in a way a lot of people seemed to love. So to bring back the Master for anything less than an excellent story with an incarnation which gave a fresh breath of life is a real shame.
I felt Jodie was also subpar, she's a great actress but there's very little interesting material here for her this episode and I think this Doctor (which needed to convince the annoying people who thought a female Doctor wouldn't work) is probably going down as a missed opportunity if things don't improve, although I think if the 7th Doctor shows anything, it's that sudden changes can happen and I'd love to see Jodie get much better material.
Bradley Walsh seemed a bit off this episode, but he's been the best thing for me about the new series so I'm looking forward to more of him.
My biggest concern is that as with series 11 you'll be able to see which episodes the budget went to. This episode felt very cinematic, but I'm worried that future episodes won't get the money they deserve. Think of Tsuranga Conundrum- the episode of corridors and an invisible prop being repeated!
As someone who's been rewatching a lot of the Pertwee years maybe these issues seemed a lot more prominent to me and a spy-esque story didn't seem too special for that reason perhaps, but all told, a bit of a let-down. Chibnall referenced early Master stories, he should know how they should be done!
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Post by ollychops on Jan 1, 2020 20:51:20 GMT
Pretty good - still felt like it was dragging a bit about two-thirds of the way through though, but generally better than most of Chibnall's S11 stories, so hopefully it holds up with Part 2. Gonna shove the rest all under a spoiler tag... {Spoiler} Honestly the bigger cliffhanger would have been if he wasn't the Master, because pretty much as soon as he was cast, all talk was about him being a potential new Master. Which is fine, I like the casting, but to me I felt like he was channelling John Simm... hopefully he's not quite so Simm-ish in Part 2.
My main problem is it coming so soon after Missy. Yes, they were never going to leave the Master dead permanently, and yes, it's been - what? - 2 years in our time since we last saw the Master, but it seems way too soon to bring him back following Missy's redemption arc. I'll be fine if it's a pre-Missy Master (though, not sure where they'd put him?), or a parallel Master (given the mention about parallel Earth's earlier on?).
I'll wait and see how they explain this, but right now I'm not convinced at all.
But on the plus side (Because I hate being negative)! The Master finally has his own TARDIS again, and I loved the callback to the TCE. When was Sacha's casting announced? It honestly went under my radar. I knew Fry and Henry but I'm a fan of Sacha and all I thought I was seeing him in this week was the new Dracula! Don’t think he was ever officially announced. If I remember, someone saw Doctor Who on his CV (which was then promptly removed off it) a couple of months back, and the rumours began then. But honestly, I’m impressed that they managed to keep the big reveal a secret (other than a few rumblings online), unlike the time Simm’s return got spoiled in S10.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:51:24 GMT
Intentional or not, revealing Missy with a Mary Poppins thing followed by the next Master reveal to have that Wizard Of Oz shot was brilliant. I really laughed at the house out the window shot.
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