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Post by stcoop on Jan 3, 2020 20:23:08 GMT
Since this a mystery that will no doubt play out until the end of the series I was wondering what people's thoughts of what it will turn out to be (beyond slightly disappointing) are.
I'd tie together those oddities about the 13th Doctor that in reality are just bad writing, as actually being part of a master-plan or rather a Master plan, and reveal that the person we've been watching for the past two series is not actually the Doctor but an imperfect clone. The Master having snatched up the real one mid-fall before dropping the fake through the train roof so she only actually falls a couple of feet. Because even with post-regeneration healing powers she should have died. It would explain things like why she lets murderers like Art Malik and Mr Big get away with it, why she doesn't seem to know things that other Doctor's did and often seems like just a bystander to events. And also why she seems to be keeping her past secret from her friends, because she can't properly remember it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 20:37:08 GMT
Since this a mystery that will no doubt play out until the end of the series I was wondering what people's thoughts of what it will turn out to be (beyond slightly disappointing) are.
I'd tie together those oddities about the 13th Doctor that in reality are just bad writing, as actually being part of a master-plan or rather a Master plan, and reveal that the person we've been watching for the past two series is not actually the Doctor but an imperfect clone. The Master having snatched up the real one mid-fall before dropping the fake through the train roof so she only actually falls a couple of feet. Because even with post-regeneration healing powers she should have died. It would explain things like why she lets murderers like Art Malik and Mr Big get away with it, why she doesn't seem to know things that other Doctor's did and often seems like just a bystander to events. And also why she seems to be keeping her past secret from her friends, because she can't properly remember it.
I don't think they will, or should, send the message that the first female Doctor after ALL that controversy was somehow "wrong" and we've been watching someone who isn't 100% The Doctor. It'd be throwing a bone to the worst aspects of fandom. I've had many issues with the lack of character and very narrow range of emotions Jodie is allowed to display in the show but of any incarnation where I'd say it's important to not retcon their existence, it's this one. I can accept badly written, I can't accept letting some of the knuckle draggers think they've won. I do think (and hope) there could well be something more to this than just "Master's back, he's a laughing madman again", but I'd expect a reveal more along the lines of he's from another universe, the Doctor has been in another one (which would also explain why the UK government suddenly don't believe in aliens and disbanded UNIT), Sacha is a Sam Kigart-like Unbound Master, or actually a much earlier incarnation than we think or something along these lines. Matt Strevens, the exec producer, was asked for 3 words to describe the series and he said one was "climactic", so I can only imagine one lesson learned from S11's damp squib ending is that there needs to be something at the end better than the Battle Of Whatsit last year - when your finale is your most forgettable ep something has gone wrong. Since we started with a big, big Ep 1 ending I'd hope the seeds are sewn for this to lead into the 2-part finale and we'll get revelation, twists and surprise to match, or subvert, or compound, what we've just had. I just hope Chibnall can stick the landing this year in a way he couldn't last.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 3, 2020 20:47:16 GMT
Yeah I find it difficult to believe Chibnall or the BBC would allow the first female Doctor to retroconned as being a clone or not "right". That would be caving to all the very worst aspects of toxic fandom.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 20:57:51 GMT
Since this a mystery that will no doubt play out until the end of the series I was wondering what people's thoughts of what it will turn out to be (beyond slightly disappointing) are.
I'd tie together those oddities about the 13th Doctor that in reality are just bad writing, as actually being part of a master-plan or rather a Master plan, and reveal that the person we've been watching for the past two series is not actually the Doctor but an imperfect clone. The Master having snatched up the real one mid-fall before dropping the fake through the train roof so she only actually falls a couple of feet. Because even with post-regeneration healing powers she should have died. It would explain things like why she lets murderers like Art Malik and Mr Big get away with it, why she doesn't seem to know things that other Doctor's did and often seems like just a bystander to events. And also why she seems to be keeping her past secret from her friends, because she can't properly remember it.
Nope. Seems like your trolling really rather than being serious.
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Post by Jeedai on Jan 3, 2020 21:34:19 GMT
I don't think they will, or should, send the message that the first female Doctor after ALL that controversy was somehow "wrong" and we've been watching someone who isn't 100% The Doctor. It'd be throwing a bone to the worst aspects of fandom. I've had many issues with the lack of character and very narrow range of emotions Jodie is allowed to display in the show but of any incarnation where I'd say it's important to not retcon their existence, it's this one. I can accept badly written, I can't accept letting some of the knuckle draggers think they've won. Yeah I find it difficult to believe Chibnall or the BBC would allow the first female Doctor to retroconned as being a clone or not "right". That would be caving to all the very worst aspects of toxic fandom. If anything Spyfall sent the exact opposing message, when 1) Thirteen called the change an 'upgrade' and 2) a male character who was expecting the Doctor to (still) be a man accepted being corrected and carried on with the meeting with absolutely no drama. Rather than, say, throwing a snitfit there in M-I6 headquarters, running home to whine about it online with with the heads of other intelligence agencies, and coming to the conclusion that the world could stand to wait a few years for the Doctor to regenerate into someone worthy of saving it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2020 10:02:08 GMT
Random thought that I had during the night (as you do).
What if "everything you think you know is a lie" wasn't the Master's way of getting one over the Doctor, but his way of warning her? What if both of them, the companions, Barton, the mystery aliens, everyone on the planet.. were all pawns in a game? A game orchestrated by someone or something with the powers to dampen the Doctor's natural abilities (might explain how she didn't sense the presence of another Timelord while actually in his presence), suppress the knowledge of extra terrestrial life from the humans (because surely MI6 would have been just the teeny weeniest bit keen to spy on both UNIT and Torchwood during the time both were active to find out what they were up to and build up their own database of knowledge on ETs, rather than casually drop ' O' and his files like a hot potato and dismiss the existence of aliens altogether?) and with just enough of a grudge against the Doctor that they could manipulate events on a massive scale to attempt to bring about her downfall?
Granted it is still very early days, but I'm hoping the 'big bad' will turn out to be the Celestial Toymaker or the Black Guardian or the Eternals. Though with my own natural ability to go so far over the top and halfway down the other side when guessing these things it might well turn out to be Tim Shaw or a Pting...😊
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 4, 2020 10:53:19 GMT
The multiple earths have to be a clue. I’m thinking also that Yaz has been affected/ changed in some way by her time in the... whatever that place was.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2020 10:57:09 GMT
I'm wondering if it's tied into the Timeless Child arc. Or something to do with the origin of the Timelords/Gallifrey?
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 4, 2020 11:55:35 GMT
Random thought that I had during the night (as you do). What if "everything you think you know is a lie" wasn't the Master's way of getting one over the Doctor, but his way of warning her? What if both of them, the companions, Barton, the mystery aliens, everyone on the planet.. were all pawns in a game? A game orchestrated by someone or something with the powers to dampen the Doctor's natural abilities (might explain how she didn't sense the presence of another Timelord while actually in his presence), suppress the knowledge of extra terrestrial life from the humans (because surely MI6 would have been just the teeny weeniest bit keen to spy on both UNIT and Torchwood during the time both were active to find out what they were up to and build up their own database of knowledge on ETs, rather than casually drop ' O' and his files like a hot potato and dismiss the existence of aliens altogether?) and with just enough of a grudge against the Doctor that they could manipulate events on a massive scale to attempt to bring about her downfall? Granted it is still very early days, but I'm hoping the 'big bad' will turn out to be the Celestial Toymaker or the Black Guardian or the Eternals. Though with my own natural ability to go so far over the top and halfway down the other side when guessing these things it might well turn out to be Tim Shaw or a Pting...😊 Given there was that one scene from the Cardiff shoot with two white and black eccentrically-garbed beings who make references to existing in a more unique state... well, it's not exactly out of the Black Guardian's power to conjure up a fake reality to torment the Doctor. Whether Bald-&-Leathers is him or not, we'll have to wait and see.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 4, 2020 15:13:00 GMT
Yeah I find it difficult to believe Chibnall or the BBC would allow the first female Doctor to retroconned as being a clone or not "right". That would be caving to all the very worst aspects of toxic fandom.
Actually, it would really cheese off the 'very worst aspects of toxic fandom' if it transpired that everything after the Doctor fell out of the TARDIS was just a clone - because Jodie Whittaker would STILL be the Doctor (having regenerated prior to plummeting), but now there would be two of them!
I suspect that the 'everything you know is a lie' business will be some tedious cod-Cartmelesque mystery about the Doctor themselves, but I do like the idea suggested above that it's actually more of a warning. Who knows, maybe the Master doesn't actually intended to kill the Doctor? That won't be it, but it'd be good if it was.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 5, 2020 7:06:45 GMT
I remember when "The new Doctor is a fake" theory did the rounds during the Capaldi's first series. And during Matt Smith's first series. By sheer odds, I suppose it'll turn out to be true eventually.
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Post by notawerewolf99 on Jan 5, 2020 10:25:02 GMT
I think she's just shaken up. While we've seen companions wrestle with the realities of traveling with The Doctor, in the new series and to an extent, in the original series, it's mostly been in adventure mode. Yaz wrestling with the inexplicable on the other hand was VERY much played for real and I imagine we'll see the repercussions play across the series in some form, especially with the 'Can't go home again' theme of this series.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2020 23:55:37 GMT
I'm wondering if it's tied into the Timeless Child arc. Or something to do with the origin of the Timelords/Gallifrey? So, this seems correct. My theory, the Timeless Child is a living being that was sacrificed to help create time travel? Or captured maybe a bit like The Beast Below?
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 6, 2020 1:17:11 GMT
I'm wondering if it's tied into the Timeless Child arc. Or something to do with the origin of the Timelords/Gallifrey? So, this seems correct. My theory, the Timeless Child is a living being that was sacrificed to help create time travel? Or captured maybe a bit like The Beast Below? So, if the Doctor’s father really was called Ulysses, will the Timeless Child be Iphigenia? (Also, well done on that prediction!)
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 6, 2020 5:37:09 GMT
The multiple earths have to be a clue. I’m thinking also that Yaz has been affected/ changed in some way by her time in the... whatever that place was. Yaz is the Master now after being in that place and the Doctor comes out of it feeling as if she’s lost something.
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Post by ollychops on Jan 6, 2020 12:44:04 GMT
Really hope this isn’t Chibnall’s version of The Cartmel Masterplan/The Other. I’m not crazy about diving into deep Gallifreyan lore, and frankly, I’m not eager to know all the ins and outs of the Doctor’s origins. I’d rather they keep some sort of mysteriousness about her.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2020 13:17:56 GMT
Really hope this isn’t Chibnall’s version of The Cartmel Masterplan/The Other. I’m not crazy about diving into deep Gallifreyan lore, and frankly, I’m not eager to know all the ins and outs of the Doctor’s origins. I’d rather they keep some sort of mysteriousness about her. It is kinda funny that the showrunner who talked the most about new brooms and fresh starts is potentially building up something incredibly fan-servicey afterall. I too don't need anything Special" about The Doctor. S/he was bored, stole a ship and went to really see the Universe rather than just observe it. That's much better than anything like discovering The Doctor is the reincarnation of a being that was there alongside Omega and Rassilon which is really the kind of thing best left to fan-fic. It may not go that way anyway but I can't see it even fitting in with Jodie's Doc who doesn't have that sense of the ancient and the weight of many lives on her shoulders. I've got another issue that I think is lazy writing though now that we've seen Part 2. The Master it seems REALLY thought The Doctor was dead after the plane stunt. So why did he just say a vague thing like "everything you know is a lie?" to her, rather than tell her what the hell that actually meant since she was going to die anyway? She clearly would have just been thinking "About what? Who? Hello?" so while he seems to think he's breaking her hearts with some major truth he really was doing nothing. Seems he omitted to rub salt in the wound because the script didn't want him to spills the beans too soon for our benefit rather than for any internal logic!
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 6, 2020 13:21:56 GMT
Vael Lives!
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Post by Digi on Jan 6, 2020 17:05:32 GMT
I know that the stuff in Part One, particularly Stephen Fry's bit, are a bit of a loving nod to the James Bond franchise, but I can't help but feel like all these letter and letter acronyms have some significance we haven't figured out yet.
C - Stephen Fry O - the Master VOR - Daniel Barton's company
...or I could be grasping at straws.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 6, 2020 17:22:07 GMT
I know that the stuff in Part One, particularly Stephen Fry's bit, are a bit of a loving nod to the James Bond franchise, but I can't help but feel like all these letter and letter acronyms have some significance we haven't figured out yet. C - Stephen Fry O - the Master VOR - Daniel Barton's company ...or I could be grasping at straws. Worth noting, ‘C’ is actually a real term for the Chief of MI6, not just a James Bond reference.
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