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Post by project37 on Aug 20, 2016 15:18:21 GMT
Most of the Divergent Arc, it had potential but to me it seemed that the writers either forgot what they were supposed to be doing with it or didn't have a clue what they were intending for it. For me the entire premise was an impossible one for writers to deal with. A place with no time. Now, you really need to think what means and realise just how totally it undermines the ability to tell any kind of story. When there is no time, there is no cause and effect, everything that ever was and ever will be, is. There are no unknowns, everything that can be known is known, everything that can happen just is, it's not even happening now, there is no now, every state of everything is, there is no narrative, nowhere leads anywhere everything is.ved it. I agree, although I thought that Scherzo started off the "arc" with great promise - the whole thing was so *alien* and off-balance that created mystery and tension for me as a listener. It was unpredictable and I loved it for that. The rest of the stories seemed like they could have been written for the "regular" universe and that they'd had a few token Divergent Universe references shoehorned in. It's a shame, really. The whole concept of Sentris and the Neverpeople from Neverland was so interesting with the Oubliette of Eternity, etc. And yet it all disappeared. Then they had this unfortunate idea of wrapping up the arc because the show was coming back and they wanted to offer stories that new listeners could supposedly jump in with. So they started things off with Terror Firma (a great story for those of us in the know, but for anyone else...yikes). Oh well!
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Post by mrperson on Aug 20, 2016 15:36:29 GMT
And so many people citing Pirates as a least favourite for being a "musical"! There's only one episode with the singing. What's the reasons for hating the other hour and a half? Ye all be filthy land lubbers! For my money it's a true desert island Who story. Absolutely wonderful, with an ending that has to be earned - and is, with gusto. All we need to know about who Evelyn is, and her relationship with Sixie, is in that tale. It's absolutely mental, sure, but that's greatly to it's credit (Gilbert and Sullivan ref intentional ) Perhaps I'll find a synopsis for this one and only part with singing.....and listen to the rest. Something about musicals rubs me entirely the wrong way, likely starting when they forced us to watch "Oklahoma!" in some school music class. :shudder:
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Post by Bazoolium on Aug 20, 2016 20:56:34 GMT
People have mentioned Creatures of Beauty' and 'Legend of the Cybermen' which are two of my all time favourites. Which shows how varied Doctor Who is, which is good. Catering to people liking different things. As for bad, I hate 'Plague of the Daleks' for ruining what could have been a perfect Stockbridge Trilogy. There must be others, but I seem to have block them from my mind. Oh, that recent Rani story was a bit naff.
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Post by mrperson on Aug 20, 2016 21:33:59 GMT
People have mentioned Creatures of Beauty' and 'Legend of the Cybermen' which are two of my all time favourites. Which shows how varied Doctor Who is, which is good. Catering to people liking different things. Yeah...I love Creatures of Beauty, as well as the series Legend was part of.
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Post by kimalysong on Aug 20, 2016 22:23:28 GMT
I love Pirates you ye lily-livered scurvy swines. But silliness aside for me it is one the most beautiful emotionally powerful Doctor Who stories. But to each their own.
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Post by relativetime on Aug 20, 2016 23:57:08 GMT
I was not particularly fond of "Rule of the Eminence" from Dark Eyes 3 and there are a few stories from the first three series of the Eighth Doctor Adventures I don't think I'll be in any hurry to revisit - No More Lies, The Eight Truths and Worldwide Web. I could barely finish Thin Ice and I have yet to make myself finish the last two parts of Crime of the Century. The Valley of Death is the only Fourth Doctor story I've listened to that I wasn't fond of, but then again I've only listened to Series 3 of the FDAs, a few stories from Series 2, and two stories from Series 4, so I'm sure there could be more I wouldn't like.
And I really wouldn't call any of the stories I've mentioned "bad." The ones I don't like don't summon the anger and passion a bad episode of New Who might - it's more of an absence of emotion. Further, when I see a non-current story getting panned by a vast majority of people, I don't buy it - gotta save money for the ones that are worth it.
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 21, 2016 0:28:07 GMT
Sorry to say but when it's Tom or Peter, if they don't "believe" in the story, I think it comes across quite a lot so there are a few stories with them that I think fall down my rankings further than the story perhaps deserves. In fairness to Peter, his trilogy at the start of the year was as involved as I've heard him sound in a long time. He was well up for them. Agreed, although I've learned that I have to very be careful not to think this more often than is really warranted. The Fourth and Fifth Doctors I think I especially look to, to "carry" the excitement level of a story or convey it to the listener directly. On a good day, Tom or Peter could convince me that the absolute dullest story is very exciting, but if I'm not deliberately observant, if it turns out that if it the story manages to be less than hugely exciting for any other reason, I tend to come away with the sense that the stars must not have sounded that excited about the material, which may or may not actually be true. Hence, I made the mistake of remembering a number of 4DAs as seeming blase just for listening to them way past my bedtime when I was too tired to really grasp what was going on (and unfortunately they were my favorite thing to pick when I mistakenly thought I was up for one more story for the day). Really, in all their stories I don't think I've ever heard Tom or Peter phone one in. Destination: Nerva honestly did sound to me like a slightly awkward start but there isn't another 4DA after it that sounds like that to me. I think some of the Fifth Doctor Lost Stories didn't easily spark excitement with me (which is odd as I'm so keen on Fifth Doctor stories) but my sense of them seems to be that the cast in general seem a little subdued or disoriented. Maybe there was some incongruity between what was being plotted decades ago vs. being adapted much later that really might have been just a little disorienting for the cast? I can only guess since I've no idea exactly what was conserved, but I do think maybe it's inevitable with that kind of thing that you reverentially want to keep as much of the original story as you can even if sometimes one might be better off starting more from scratch. I'm still not entirely sure of even that much, though. Another place where my sensibilities (or lack of) has tried to play serious tricks on me is the Novel Adaptations - it took until my third listen recently to get excited about The Romance of Crime. It really is a very good story and production, but I totally had an attitude of "Ooh, it's Tom and Lalla together again at long last" so of course leave it to me, any scene in the story that doesn't feature both of them in it as a two-hander tries to seem dull as dishwater - which couldn't be further from the actual truth. Nick said he dislikes mlti-Doctor stories and struggled to come up with one.... Again - back to my point - we got safe, middle ground results for that release. And that's the last place I like Doctor Who to be. I probably agree, yet I probably prefer that to a daring experiment gone wrong for the 50th anniversary. I'm not very objective about multi-Doctor stories though - to me, they were always a big deal because even more than the novelty of them, they just were fantastic because they meant that Hartnell, Troughton or Pertwee were playing the role of Doctor again, and they're even more of a big deal for it these days. Hence they could have been horrible stories and I wouldn't have minded (if nothing else, The Two Doctors is a delightfully inspired showcase for Troughton's talent, IMHO). I'm sure I think The Light at the End is brilliant just because Tom actually performed in it (unlike The Four Doctors With Scenes from Shada, or The Five Doctors as it's sometimes called). Granted that the magical feat of previous Doctors returning to the spotlight is simply business as usual at Big Finish, but somehow multi-Doctor stories don't seem to have lost any of their appeal for that. (I bought my only 12-month MR sub ever specifically to get The Four Doctors and couldn't be happier that I did, so such things still work as a strong subscription incentive as far as I know, hint hint). And so many people citing Pirates as a least favourite for being a "musical"! There's only one episode with the singing. Dunno... I seem to be intolerant of musicals the way some people are intolerant of lactose - if 30 people at a time just spontaneously broke into well-choreographed musical numbers in real life more often, perhaps it could go on in stories without instantly letting all the realism out of them? However DW & The Pirates does not appear on my "Never listen to that again" list, so I appear to have survived my first listen (not that I could have been talked out of it anyway, everything with Maggie Stables ended up on my must-hear list, quick as could be).
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Post by theotherjosh on Aug 21, 2016 11:22:21 GMT
I'm kind of surprised how poorly Legend of the Cybermen is fairing. I don't merely consider it a good Cyberman story; I consider it one of the best Cyberman stories ever told. This is one of the few stories where it's important that the villains are Cybermen. In most Cybermen stories, you could replace them with Daleks and still have basically the same story, but not so here. I could understand why some listeners would find the meta-textual commentary near the end a bit twee, but I loved that part.
Actually, the thing that really surprises me is that Minuet in Hell is better represented. The are Big Finish stories that don't appeal to me personally, but very few that I consider actively *bad*. Minuet in Hell is one of them.
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Post by elkawho on Aug 21, 2016 12:34:37 GMT
I'm kind of surprised how poorly Legend of the Cybermen is fairing. I don't merely consider it a good Cyberman story; I consider it one of the best Cyberman stories ever told. This is one of the few stories where it's important that the villains are Cybermen. In most Cybermen stories, you could replace them with Daleks and still have basically the same story, but not so here. I could understand why some listeners would find the meta-textual commentary near the end a bit twee, but I loved that part. Actually, the thing that really surprises me is that Minuet in Hell is better represented. The are Big Finish stories that don't appeal to me personally, but very few that I consider actively *bad*. Minuet in Hell is one of them. I think I mentioned Minuet In Hell early in this discussion. It's the only BF story that I couldn't finish, and will never listen to again.
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Post by theotherjosh on Aug 21, 2016 12:55:23 GMT
I'm kind of surprised how poorly Legend of the Cybermen is fairing. I don't merely consider it a good Cyberman story; I consider it one of the best Cyberman stories ever told. This is one of the few stories where it's important that the villains are Cybermen. In most Cybermen stories, you could replace them with Daleks and still have basically the same story, but not so here. I could understand why some listeners would find the meta-textual commentary near the end a bit twee, but I loved that part. Actually, the thing that really surprises me is that Minuet in Hell is better represented. The are Big Finish stories that don't appeal to me personally, but very few that I consider actively *bad*. Minuet in Hell is one of them. I think I mentioned Minuet In Hell early in this discussion. It's the only BF story that I couldn't finish, and will never listen to again. You did, and I didn't mean to misrepresent you. What I meant was, I'm surprised it's not on everyone's list.
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Post by jasonward on Aug 21, 2016 13:02:11 GMT
I think Minuet in Hell is a great story, and yep really really enjoyed Legend Of the Cybermen.
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Post by elkawho on Aug 21, 2016 13:04:17 GMT
I think I mentioned Minuet In Hell early in this discussion. It's the only BF story that I couldn't finish, and will never listen to again. You did, and I didn't mean to misrepresent you. What I meant was, I'm surprised it's not on everyone's list. No worries. I never get tired of explaining just how much I dislike this story.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Aug 21, 2016 13:48:45 GMT
very few that I consider actively *bad*. Minuet in Hell is one of them. Didn't they discuss this in the podcast a week or so back? Sounds like it was a nightmare recording.
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Post by elkawho on Aug 21, 2016 14:08:19 GMT
very few that I consider actively *bad*. Minuet in Hell is one of them. Didn't they discuss this in the podcast a week or so back? Sounds like it was a nightmare recording. YEs they did. Probably one of the most interesting bits I've heard on a podcast. It didn't change my opinion of the audio, but it made me understand why it was so bad.
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Post by theotherjosh on Aug 21, 2016 14:53:15 GMT
Didn't they discuss this in the podcast a week or so back? Sounds like it was a nightmare recording. YEs they did. Probably one of the most interesting bits I've heard on a podcast. It didn't change my opinion of the audio, but it made me understand why it was so bad. Which one was that? I've fallen behind in my podcast listening, but I'd be very interested in catching this one.
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Post by elkawho on Aug 21, 2016 16:43:19 GMT
YEs they did. Probably one of the most interesting bits I've heard on a podcast. It didn't change my opinion of the audio, but it made me understand why it was so bad. Which one was that? I've fallen behind in my podcast listening, but I'd be very interested in catching this one. Oh, jeez. My memory is like a sieve. I'll try and figure it out for you, although I'm sure some folks around here remember.
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Post by Ela on Aug 21, 2016 17:14:11 GMT
The Boy That Time Forgot was painful. I make no secret that I loath the character of Adric, but even I think this story was an injustice to him. Regardless of the actor playing the role, this is a script Big Finish really should have passed on. Well, I didn't loath the character of Adric, but couldn't agree more that this story should not have been made.
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Post by Ela on Aug 21, 2016 17:15:14 GMT
And so many people citing Pirates as a least favourite for being a "musical"! There's only one episode with the singing. What's the reasons for hating the other hour and a half? Ye all be filthy land lubbers! For my money it's a true desert island Who story. Absolutely wonderful, with an ending that has to be earned - and is, with gusto. All we need to know about who Evelyn is, and her relationship with Sixie, is in that tale. It's absolutely mental, sure, but that's greatly to it's credit (Gilbert and Sullivan ref intentional ) I enjoyed the story, myself.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,849
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Post by aztec on Aug 21, 2016 17:29:56 GMT
I remember being thoroughly bored by both Skull Of Sobek and Scaredy Cat.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 21:20:25 GMT
I'm kind of surprised how poorly Legend of the Cybermen is fairing. I don't merely consider it a good Cyberman story; I consider it one of the best Cyberman stories ever told. This is one of the few stories where it's important that the villains are Cybermen. In most Cybermen stories, you could replace them with Daleks and still have basically the same story, but not so here. I could understand why some listeners would find the meta-textual commentary near the end a bit twee, but I loved that part. I'm with you bud. Love it to bits. It takes the Cybermen and does something completely different with them. I mean...Cybes versus Little Lord Fauntleroy, The Artful Dodger and Dracula? How easy a sell should that be? It works on a novelty and emotional level for me (like Pirates does) and I think there's more creativity in its 2 hours than some whole subsequent trilogies have managed. The endings a tad contrived, perhaps, but with Jamie and Sixie running into each other so often compared to other out-of-time pairings, at least we get a novel ending. It's also one of my favourite BF cover designs, FWIW.
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