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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 2, 2016 23:34:35 GMT
Are there certain topics, be they themes or historical events, that, no matter the medium or who is writing, should not be a Doctor Who story? I feel like elements that don't gel with the fun sci-fi adventure leanings of the series are very much a no-brainer i.e. a story set during 7/7 or 9/11, or a story dealing with various genocides like Cambodia, Rwanda and the Holocaust.
Anybody want to weigh in?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 23:45:38 GMT
Events taken directly from religious texts are still out. Jim Mortimore came up with a really cool idea for a scientifically plausible explanation for the Book of Exodus called Heresy of the Sun using the First Doctor, Ian, Barbara and Vicki. Here's an outline from the Lulu preview of The Age of Broken Miracles:
It would be too controversial, I think.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 3, 2016 0:08:13 GMT
I don't know if it was Taboo but Danny Pinks PTSD may've been miss-judged. If you've got a supporting character suffering/adjusting to a real life event trauma of war at the same time your meant to be cheering for your heroes as they deal with fictional threats, it doesn't help though that he's portrayed completely without sympathy/empathy IMO just vents his frustration by winding the Doctor for the heck of it. I mean when has another "good guy" character never at least been slightly impressed by the TARDIS or the Doctor,
Regards
mark687
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Post by jasonward on Jul 3, 2016 0:15:14 GMT
I don't think any subject is too taboo. That is not say you can have any story dealing with any subject any which way, it's not the subject that is taboo, it's what the story says or fails to say about the subject that is taboo.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jul 3, 2016 5:10:08 GMT
Cynically, I'd have thought having the lead character commit mass infanitcide and have that be a plot point referred to throughout the anniversary story would have been poor taste.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 11:28:04 GMT
I don't know if it was Taboo but Danny Pinks PTSD may've been miss-judged. If you've got a supporting character suffering/adjusting to a real life event trauma of war at the same time your meant to be cheering for your heroes as they deal with fictional threats, it doesn't help though that he's portrayed completely without sympathy/empathy IMO just vents his frustration by winding the Doctor for the heck of it. I mean when has another "good guy" character never at least been slightly impressed by the TARDIS or the Doctor, Regards mark687 Yeah... There's a lot of problems with Danny Pink's character and that probably tops the list. It sucks that Iron Man 3 managed to handle the subject of posttraumatic stress disorder better than the show did. In fact, Clara's relationship with him would have gone a lot further and potentially nastier than their "wells" conversation in Listen. There would have been moments where -- and I speak as someone who's actually seen this -- at the sound of a loud popping noise, he would have dropped to the ground and gone straight back into combat mode. Fear of physical violence would also have been a factor for Clara, I don't think Danny would have let her touch him. I think if he found out she'd consistently lied to him, he would have taken that as a personal failing and walked out. I got this impression when watching The Zygon Invasion that it was a story purpose-built to further explore his experiences, but since he was dead by that point, there wasn't that opportunity so it all fell by the wayside. I was actually surprised that the Doctor and he didn't have more in common, it was a very artificially contrived rivalry. There's just so much about him that doesn't make sense and seems to exist solely to artificially generate drama. In fact, after shooting dead a child and coming back home, why the hell would he be anywhere near a school? Surely a man in that situation would want to be as far away from children as was humanly possible? You don't just drop something that controversial and widespread into a television series and then abandon it like an afterthought.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 3, 2016 12:09:03 GMT
I don't know if it was Taboo but Danny Pinks PTSD may've been miss-judged. If you've got a supporting character suffering/adjusting to a real life event trauma of war at the same time your meant to be cheering for your heroes as they deal with fictional threats, it doesn't help though that he's portrayed completely without sympathy/empathy IMO just vents his frustration by winding the Doctor for the heck of it. I mean when has another "good guy" character never at least been slightly impressed by the TARDIS or the Doctor, Regards mark687 Yeah... There's a lot of problems with Danny Pink's character and that probably tops the list. It sucks that Iron Man 3 managed to handle the subject of posttraumatic stress disorder better than the show did. In fact, Clara's relationship with him would have gone a lot further and potentially nastier than their "wells" conversation in Listen. There would have been moments where -- and I speak as someone who's actually seen this -- at the sound of a loud popping noise, he would have dropped to the ground and gone straight back into combat mode. Fear of physical violence would also have been a factor for Clara, I don't think Danny would have let her touch him. I think if he found out she'd consistently lied to him, he would have taken that as a personal failing and walked out. I got this impression when watching The Zygon Invasion that it was a story purpose-built to further explore his experiences, but since he was dead by that point, there wasn't that opportunity so it all fell by the wayside. I was actually surprised that the Doctor and he didn't have more in common, it was a very artificially contrived rivalry. There's just so much about him that doesn't make sense and seems to exist solely to artificially generate drama. In fact, after shooting dead a child and coming back home, why the hell would he be anywhere near a school? Surely a man in that situation would want to be as far away from children as was humanly possible? You don't just drop something that controversial and widespread into a television series and then abandon it like an afterthought. Completely agree about the Listen restaurant scene had it been a post watershed drama the conservation might've ended in a swear word, a slap and a frustrated tearful apology from him and your right there may've more instances had he stayed.
I can understand him being a teacher trying to atone its just this approach of "I'm damaged, I like you a bit. I but choose to live in this flawed real world and I'm not remotely in the border universe".
Its a brave approach to take but in the context of DW miss-judged.
Regards
mark687
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Post by mrperson on Jul 3, 2016 17:40:55 GMT
or a story dealing with various genocides like Cambodia, Rwanda and the Holocaust. It rubbed me the wrong way even the little bit they did with the "put Hitler in a cupboard" business....
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Post by mrperson on Jul 3, 2016 17:46:24 GMT
I don't think any subject is too taboo. That is not say you can have any story dealing with any subject any which way, it's not the subject that is taboo, it's what the story says or fails to say about the subject that is taboo. Yeah, I think that just about sums it up. The recent Peterloo Massacre episode from BF, for example. It's a tragedy, albeit on a smaller scale than those mentioned in this thread. But it was handled just right. They didn't try to "take the piss" out of a grave subject, especially in a flippant way (aka, "Let's Kill Hitler"). There are still some right ways to try to disarm such a subject with humor, but there are probably more wrong ways than right to do it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 1:30:29 GMT
Completely agree about the Listen restaurant scene had it been a post watershed drama the conservation might've ended in a swear word, a slap and a frustrated tearful apology from him and your right there may've more instances had he stayed.
I can understand him being a teacher trying to atone its just this approach of "I'm damaged, I like you a bit. I but choose to live in this flawed real world and I'm not remotely in the border universe".
Its a brave approach to take but in the context of DW miss-judged.
Regards
mark687
Two of the best Moffat era attempts at addressing controversial contemporary day issues were very, very subtle. In order, Vincent and the Doctor's absolutely beautiful handling of suicidal depression and The God Complex's Muslim character, Rita, with her line: "Don't be afraid." It's right on the nose, there's so much said in so few words. It's a pity that we didn't have her as a companion.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 4, 2016 9:42:27 GMT
Completely agree about the Listen restaurant scene had it been a post watershed drama the conservation might've ended in a swear word, a slap and a frustrated tearful apology from him and your right there may've more instances had he stayed.
I can understand him being a teacher trying to atone its just this approach of "I'm damaged, I like you a bit. I but choose to live in this flawed real world and I'm not remotely in the border universe".
Its a brave approach to take but in the context of DW miss-judged.
Regards
mark687
Two of the best Moffat era attempts at addressing controversial contemporary day issues were very, very subtle. In order, Vincent and the Doctor's absolutely beautiful handling of suicidal depression and The God Complex's Muslim character, Rita, with her line: "Don't be afraid." It's right on the nose, there's so much said in so few words. It's a pity that we didn't have her as a companion. Yes your spot on about Vincent the standout EP of the Smith Era IMO.
Regards
mark687
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jul 4, 2016 12:06:18 GMT
Events taken directly from religious texts are still out. Jim Mortimore came up with a really cool idea for a scientifically plausible explanation for the Book of Exodus called Heresy of the Sun using the First Doctor, Ian, Barbara and Vicki. Here's an outline from the Lulu preview of The Age of Broken Miracles: It would be too controversial, I think. It may be but it still reads like a fantastic story. I suppose if they did do a version of it today, they would have to set it on an Alien planet and there would be a few biblical references maybe
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 4, 2016 12:31:15 GMT
Events taken directly from religious texts are still out. Jim Mortimore came up with a really cool idea for a scientifically plausible explanation for the Book of Exodus called Heresy of the Sun using the First Doctor, Ian, Barbara and Vicki. Here's an outline from the Lulu preview of The Age of Broken Miracles: It would be too controversial, I think. As an outline it reads brilliantly - as a novel or screenplay, I think it would require too many infodumps for people who aren't terribly well-versed on the biblical history. Shame, because I love riffs off history like this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 21:46:33 GMT
As an outline it reads brilliantly - as a novel or screenplay, I think it would require too many infodumps for people who aren't terribly well-versed on the biblical history. Shame, because I love riffs off history like this. So do I, but I'm not entirely sure that you'd need the context. The Council of Nicaea fared well enough, the final product would probably be more The Prince of Egypt than Ben-Hur. As someone who knows little about Christian theology beyond the basics, I'm not exactly sure what would be required to keep the religious integrity of the story intact or even if that would be a prerequisite. The Prince of Egypt managed to be awe-inspiring (probably in no small part due to Nicholas Meyer being attached to the project), but I enjoyed it strictly as an amazing story rather than a spiritual text. I think that's the main issue really. There's this vague, separate dimension attached to it which I haven't a clue about. The same problem could apply if you adapted a story from the Quran, Laozi or Vedas, for example. Then again... Do religious texts hold a genuine monopoly on adaptations of their work? Gosh, there's a question. Events taken directly from religious texts are still out. Jim Mortimore came up with a really cool idea for a scientifically plausible explanation for the Book of Exodus called Heresy of the Sun using the First Doctor, Ian, Barbara and Vicki. Here's an outline from the Lulu preview of The Age of Broken Miracles: It would be too controversial, I think. It may be but it still reads like a fantastic story. I suppose if they did do a version of it today, they would have to set it on an Alien planet and there would be a few biblical references maybe That's not a bad way of dealing with it actually. The Forbidden Planet solution.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jul 6, 2016 13:03:34 GMT
It may be but it still reads like a fantastic story. I suppose if they did do a version of it today, they would have to set it on an Alien planet and there would be a few biblical references maybe That's not a bad way of dealing with it actually. The Forbidden Planet solution. Thats what i thought. I know there would be some people who would get uppity about it in its original form, but go FP on it and it would be a fantastic tale, that would only have subtle links to it. Sure maybe you could have a character make a reference to the story of Moses, otherwise, it can be left be as it is. Get a big name writer involved and it could fit alongside. Wheel of Ice and Harvest of Time. Call it Tower of Fire maybe lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 2:14:04 GMT
That's not a bad way of dealing with it actually. The Forbidden Planet solution. Thats what i thought. I know there would be some people who would get uppity about it in its original form, but go FP on it and it would be a fantastic tale, that would only have subtle links to it. Sure maybe you could have a character make a reference to the story of Moses, otherwise, it can be left be as it is. Get a big name writer involved and it could fit alongside. Wheel of Ice and Harvest of Time. Call it Tower of Fire maybe lol Doctor Who and the Tower of Fire by Harlan Ellison maybe. Well, that's now part of my head-canon.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jul 7, 2016 12:42:35 GMT
Thats what i thought. I know there would be some people who would get uppity about it in its original form, but go FP on it and it would be a fantastic tale, that would only have subtle links to it. Sure maybe you could have a character make a reference to the story of Moses, otherwise, it can be left be as it is. Get a big name writer involved and it could fit alongside. Wheel of Ice and Harvest of Time. Call it Tower of Fire maybe lol Doctor Who and the Tower of Fire by Harlan Ellison maybe. Well, that's now part of my head-canon. Now its part of mine and Harlan Ellison is a great choice
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 2, 2016 0:29:46 GMT
Anything sexual... yeah, not keen on it. Virgin briefly flirted with that, as did BF in the early days, was not one of their all time greatest hours.
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Post by kalendorf on Oct 2, 2016 15:31:07 GMT
The whole euthanasia theme of Mawdryn Undead I thought was depressing and unpleasant in a way that made the show no longer fun to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 16:11:12 GMT
My perspective is, in terms of historical events, anything having occurred 45 years prior is fine, but anything after is kinda pushing it.
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