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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jul 12, 2016 21:19:00 GMT
I like the idea because the Doctor gives ilittle boys a role model who doesn't resolve all his problems thiough guns and punching and the expected violence, who revels in creativity and the use of the intellect. So why can't little girls get in on this? Female characters these days are nigh universally "thr kick arse woman", who can fight as well as or better then the boys, who shoots and brawls (unless they're the queen bitch, a la Cersei Lannister) etc etc. so why shouldn't little girls who don't want to emulate that have a Doctor to dream of being?
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Jul 12, 2016 21:31:57 GMT
I'd be fine with it. Might make a nice change. Conversely, I wouldn't mind so much if there never was one.
And I wouldn't be looking forward to the inevitable hyperbole of the press and the back slapping of the creators, for being so daring and progressive, when I really don't think it's a big deal one way or the other.
Like, if it happens, I want the Doctor to take it totally in her stride, and just treat it like any other regeneration, without being overly obsessive over the gender swap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 22:10:07 GMT
I like the idea because the Doctor gives ilittle boys a role model who doesn't resolve all his problems thiough guns and punching and the expected violence, who revels in creativity and the use of the intellect. So why can't little girls get in on this? Female characters these days are nigh universally "thr kick arse woman", who can fight as well as or better then the boys, who shoots and brawls (unless they're the queen bitch, a la Cersei Lannister) etc etc. so why shouldn't little girls who don't want to emulate that have a Doctor to dream of being? Well, if we're talking from a purely political standpoint, why can't a hero for girls be a male character? Speaking as a male, I can say that the reverse is certainly true. There are a few female characters who I absolutely adore like Elizabeth Weir, Cathy Gale, Barbara Wright, Temperance Brennon, Dana Scully and Evelyn Smythe who very rarely fall into the trap of "strong = masculine" like Ellen Ripley very nearly does. I've always appreciated female characters who are allowed to have their femininity be used as a strength rather than perceived as a weakness or (even worse) a gimmick.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jul 12, 2016 22:15:06 GMT
I like the idea because the Doctor gives ilittle boys a role model who doesn't resolve all his problems thiough guns and punching and the expected violence, who revels in creativity and the use of the intellect. So why can't little girls get in on this? Female characters these days are nigh universally "thr kick arse woman", who can fight as well as or better then the boys, who shoots and brawls (unless they're the queen bitch, a la Cersei Lannister) etc etc. so why shouldn't little girls who don't want to emulate that have a Doctor to dream of being? Well, if we're talking from a purely political standpoint, why can't a hero for girls be a male character? No, we're talking about it from an aspirational and heroic standpoint. Of course little girls could dream of being Luke Skywalker, but they can imagine being Rei easier. someone who is like them to look up to. Do I lose Capaldi if his replacement is Carrie Fisher? No. Do they delete the Mighty Trout if the next Doctor is Amanda Tapping? No. Do they kick Tennant out of the club if the next Doctor is Helen Mirren? No. But do people gain something if the next Doctor is Helen or Amanda or whoever? Yes. They gain someone to look up to and aspire to be like.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 12, 2016 22:33:53 GMT
Well, if we're talking from a purely political standpoint, why can't a hero for girls be a male character? No, we're talking about it from an aspirational and heroic standpoint. Of course little girls could dream of being Luke Skywalker, but they can imagine being Rei easier. someone who is like them to look up to. Do I lose Capaldi if his replacement is Carrie Fisher? No. Do they delete the Mighty Trout if the next Doctor is Amanda Tapping? No. Do they kick Tennant out of the club if the next Doctor is Helen Mirren? No. But do people gain something if the next Doctor is Helen or Amanda or whoever? Yes. They gain someone to look up to and aspire to be like. I LOVE Rey in Force Awakens...but they created a cool character rather than magically regendering Luke or someone else. We definitely NEED better and more female heroes, I don't think making the Doctor female is an answer. And see my earlier answer for a tiny bit more depth.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 12, 2016 22:38:36 GMT
And anyway, we HAD a female Doctor, she was, and is, called Romanadvoratrelundar. If you bring her back to TV and include her entire history via BF (even in asides) she's equally as awesome and cool as the Doctor. An Equal in a way that River or Rose never could be, for all her whatevers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 0:00:00 GMT
For me, The Doctor is a male character and should stay that way. Nothing wrong with strong female characters, but why choose an established male character and change it to a female one? Why not just create a strong female character instead?
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 13, 2016 1:49:01 GMT
IIRC, "Sure, why not?" was that terrible sound that was heard just prior to most of the really dumb things I've done in my life. "Why?" probably would have been a better question most of the time, and often a safer one too. :-) I like the idea because the Doctor gives ilittle boys a role model who doesn't resolve all his problems thiough guns and punching and the expected violence, who revels in creativity and the use of the intellect. Isn't that one the most marvelous and refreshing things about The Doctor? I was happy enough to aspire just to the responsibilities of being a Companion myself though. Thank God there were Harry and Adric and Turlough for me to relate to, Adric especially. I feel like geekdom as a whole is in a funny place now with regards to gender and race topics, and New Who needs to recalibrate its focus as well as its wildly veering writing quality before it can even think of tackling that pool of snakes. I agree with all of that, and I think fandom has been subjected to some funny things that may be related to that funny place they might be in. For example, I don't think it's ever going to sit well with me that Nick Fury underwent something I'm still not even sure I know a politically correct phrase for since one still eludes me this very moment (although personally I'm just as bent out of shape that his hair's gone missing - who's next, Bald Batman? - and no, I don't hate bald people). What's an acceptable motivation for that? "No reason, we just felt like it", "It was convenient" and "Sure, why not?" may all be valid, but is acting on any of those necessarily worth the risk of confusing or alienating an established audience that's likely already been contributing to the viability of the franchise, just for the sake of enticing a newer audience who may not actually care either way? (Throw in Fury's amazing superpowers like cigar-chomping, trigger-pulling, and giving other people orders, and we pretty much have a dealbreaker for me already, the poor guy was already on some mighty thin ice in the mighty Marvel Universe to begin with). Frankly I'm afraid to look at what Marvel is doing these days and my wife has no idea why, she just likes their movies because they really have been pretty good. Meanwhile, I'm noticing all the revisionist history because God only knows what slave labor I sold myself into just to get yet one more quarter for Stan Lee out of my parents, then I could proceed to give my bike a good beating going 30 miles touring six different corner groceries to find out what happened to Gwendolyn Stacy when the Green Goblin took her hostage atop the Brooklyn Bridge - and three Spidey movies later my wife still thought Mary Jane was Peter's first girlfriend because it's really all the same to her. It's not like she said "Oh I gotta go see this the very day it opens day because Gwen isn't in it" so who was that all for? Anyone? Back at the topic, I don't think I've anything against a female Doctor, I'd probably even accept "It's about time" myself as a rationale, but I still worry what would happen with it. One thing that might be likely is for them to try to explore the issue of something having changed, which they may not really have the freedom to explore what with all of those adventures going on, and I think I'd rather they not go near it at all and just have things be a case of "Same person, different body, really nothing new here" (wasn't that always kind of the point?) instead of them try to find a middle ground full of girly jokes ("I couldn't possibly fight the Cybermen with my mascara running") and The Doctor constantly having to correct everyone that she is now a "Time Lady, thank you" - but that might be the other kind of thing that's most likely to happen based on the handling of a certain arch-nemesis of The Doctor's, or on TV's penchant for that kind of thing in general. I think Big Finish has managed to do transgender regenerations just fine without feathers ruffling and flying, but I think thus far they've been characters that are more peripheral to the story so there's been no need to get any further into it, which I think is a very different thing than it happening to a regular or central character. I'd like to feel like the idea has a proven track record (and things closest to a female Doctor most notably Romana have certainly been brilliant), but I think the idea's really only been proven in that limited sense so far. Maybe Romana should count as A Doctor if not The Doctor (or at least I tend to think of her that way, which probably explains why sometimes the idea of a female Doctor feels a bit "done that already" from my perspective)? I don't think I'd be opposed to some way of testing the idea either, maybe a male Doctor can meet his future female incarnation and her timeline would be able to turn out to have never have happened if things don't work out as they should or something? See what audiences think of a glimpse of it. Something along those lines might be more prudent than diving right into three or four seasons. I don't even think I doubt they'd find ingenious ways to make it succeed somehow, I guess it's just whether they'd manage to make it work for established viewers, and whether the benefits of certain gestures really outweigh the risks involved, as with many possible modifications. I just hope that whatever they do with it, that they're very careful. I still like the New Series very much, and there aren't that many things left on TV that I like. They really have been very respectful with it in many ways, but sometimes that makes it much harder to comprehend when they aren't.
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Post by acousticwolf on Jul 13, 2016 10:22:06 GMT
And anyway, we HAD a female Doctor, she was, and is, called Romanadvoratrelundar. If you bring her back to TV and include her entire history via BF (even in asides) she's equally as awesome and cool as the Doctor. An Equal in a way that River or Rose never could be, for all her whatevers. Not to mention the doctor's daughter, Jenny. All of Time and Space with a genetically identical Doctor/Timelord who happens to be female - what's wrong with that? I'll tell you ... absolutely nothing Cheers Tony
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jul 13, 2016 10:26:35 GMT
I think people who are SO opposed to the idea of a female Doctor... deserve to get one.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 13, 2016 10:34:55 GMT
I think people who are SO opposed to the idea of a female Doctor... deserve to get one. Surely, its the other way around? Those so supportive to the idea of a female Doctor... deserve to get one! (I don't do emojis)
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jul 13, 2016 10:54:24 GMT
You did that post already.
And I know what I meant.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jul 13, 2016 20:19:42 GMT
All that said, there's a number of actresses who would probably make brilliant Doctors... There's a lot of chatter online these days about being inclusive and diversity. It's being "forced" into things according to many online commentators....shouldn't we be glad we don't have that with Doctor Who because the concept itself invites diversity and inclusiveness? It's a show where we could have a female lead take over and it makes sense. We could have a black person take over and it would be a non-issue. On the old forum we'd see some "Well, the gender stuff only started with Moffat.." as if canon has to reach a certain age before it is set. I presume these people still don't accept anyone but Hartnell as Doctor Who since the show didn't outline regeneration from the first episode. Or that they didn't believe the 13 lives regen limit since it didn't come in till over half way through the classic series run. Well, when Hartnell turned to Troughton they did it because the show was successful, and they wanted it to continue so they replaced the lead actor. And, they did it in an alien and inventive way - changing the lead actor was always going to happen. When Bob Holmes gave the 12 regenerations limit, they were on body 4 at the time. Given the show years and years of future activity. It didn't change the show. Someone was always going to write a story where the Doctors life continued. However, Moffat is pushing the agenda. He'd already given us an extra Doctor, and as far as I'm concerned, only so he could write the final life cycle story. The show was always going to continue, anyway. His ego wanted to do it before anyone else had the chance. Now, there's the gender issue. First brought up in the Virgin(?) books. But, its only since Moffat took over the show that he said its actually possible within the "logic" of the show. Again, just because one can do it, doesn't mean one has to do it. But, Moffat, causes confrontation.
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Post by liam on Jul 13, 2016 20:33:10 GMT
I'm with Billie Piper on this one. I don't think The Doctor needs to be female. I honestly believe it will happen because people think it should happen. I love the dynamic of The Doctor and his companions and I can't see that working with a female Doctor and male companion or female companion either.
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Post by constonks on Jul 14, 2016 3:32:18 GMT
Honestly, I think I'd be more opposed to non-British actor taking the part... This. Exactly this. But seriously, about the issue at hand, I am 100% fine with it as long as it is done well. Which means minimal joking about it (maybe even no comment from the Doctor that it's weird - that has the added benefit of making the Eleventh Doctor more concerned with his gender than the Lady Doc) and no sexualisation. Basically, what I'm saying is, treat it like every other regeneration and it's good. If she's still the Doctor, I don't care what type of gender she wants to walk around with.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 4:49:14 GMT
I like the idea because the Doctor gives ilittle boys a role model who doesn't resolve all his problems thiough guns and punching and the expected violence, who revels in creativity and the use of the intellect. So why can't little girls get in on this? Female characters these days are nigh universally "thr kick arse woman", who can fight as well as or better then the boys, who shoots and brawls (unless they're the queen bitch, a la Cersei Lannister) etc etc. so why shouldn't little girls who don't want to emulate that have a Doctor to dream of being? Well, if we're talking from a purely political standpoint, why can't a hero for girls be a male character? Well according to my ten year old daughter "because why would I want to be like some old man, that's weird." A young child struggles enough with social awareness, they need to be able to easily identify with their heroes. She still prefers Doctor Who to Star Wars though. "having a girl in it doesn't stop it being for boys, it's just all guns and lightsabers and stuff, Doctor Who is about a girl who gets to have magical adventures".
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 14, 2016 13:48:44 GMT
Honestly, I think I'd be more opposed to non-British actor taking the part... This. Exactly this. But seriously, about the issue at hand, I am 100% fine with it as long as it is done well. Which means minimal joking about it (maybe even no comment from the Doctor that it's weird - that has the added benefit of making the Eleventh Doctor more concerned with his gender than the Lady Doc) and no sexualisation. Basically, what I'm saying is, treat it like every other regeneration and it's good. If she's still the Doctor, I don't care what type of gender she wants to walk around with. So any quality actor who is English, Irish, Scots or Welsh then, regardless of race or gender. I thought that was a definite "rule" at least. (If you're from Jersey etc I'm lumping you in with the others above, sorry!)
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Post by constonks on Jul 14, 2016 19:58:35 GMT
So any quality actor who is English, Irish, Scots or Welsh then, regardless of race or gender. I thought that was a definite "rule" at least. (If you're from Jersey etc I'm lumping you in with the others above, sorry!) Although if they offered the part to me, I'd throw my caution to the wind and pretend I meant the Commonwealth.
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Post by Ela on Jul 14, 2016 20:06:26 GMT
To me the Doctor is intrinsically male and I prefer it that way. But I'm willing to entertain the idea of a female Doctor if it's done right.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 20:24:33 GMT
Honestly, I think I'd be more opposed to non-British actor taking the part... This. Exactly this. But seriously, about the issue at hand, I am 100% fine with it as long as it is done well. Which means minimal joking about it (maybe even no comment from the Doctor that it's weird - that has the added benefit of making the Eleventh Doctor more concerned with his gender than the Lady Doc) and no sexualisation. Basically, what I'm saying is, treat it like every other regeneration and it's good. If she's still the Doctor, I don't care what type of gender she wants to walk around with. That was similar to my thoughts on another thread, as long as it's not made a big deal then there's no reason why it shouldn't work. The problem with it being explained or questioned is that it's treating it as an anomaly or something that's wrong for a Time Lord to change gender. We know now it can happen. Traditionally male Time Lords can become female, traditionally female ones can become male. Of course it can always be treated like colour-blind casting in the theatre, or casting choices like Maxine Peake playing Hamlet, just get on with the fact that it's an actress playing the role now and not even mention a gender change.
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