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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 31, 2017 19:49:11 GMT
I said this on the Capaldi thread, but I'm going to tweak and repost it here: Put aside everything and ask yourself this question. This isn't sexist or entitled or demanding, this is a question that Chibnall himself and even a possible actress would/may face: why does the Doctor need to be female? What does a different gender bring to the universe or characterization? What would it bring to the stories, and more importantly, to him? Especially that last one. And no, you are not allowed a 'why not'. It's lazy, it's a discussion killer and an excuse for you not to think about what you want for the show and its future. Put yourself in Chibnall's shoes: sell it. Because it's topical at the moment to make the lead character female, due to the rise of feminist marches against the presidency of Donald Trump. It makes sense for the show to stay with the times and become a relevant voice of current society rather than stick to the tried and tested formula.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 31, 2017 19:55:18 GMT
I said this on the Capaldi thread, but I'm going to tweak and repost it here: Put aside everything and ask yourself this question. This isn't sexist or entitled or demanding, this is a question that Chibnall himself and even a possible actress would/may face: why does the Doctor need to be female? What does a different gender bring to the universe or characterization? What would it bring to the stories, and more importantly, to him? Especially that last one. And no, you are not allowed a 'why not'. It's lazy, it's a discussion killer and an excuse for you not to think about what you want for the show and its future. Put yourself in Chibnall's shoes: sell it. Would they have to make a major point about the Doctor being female? The Master seems to have shrugged off a transgender regeneration and carried on like normal, I'd answer 'why not' simply because I'm completely open to it, the Doctor has been male 13 times before but I don't necessarily see anything intrinsically male about his character...the Doctor dosen't need to be female and there are definitely risks about putting an actress/the character on a pedestal with ill judged writing...but on the other hand I don't see why the Doctor should definitely remain male forever more. *Shrugs* It's a catch 22: Don't address, people get annoyed. Do address, people get annoyed. Either way, it's a short stick.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 31, 2017 20:01:42 GMT
Would they have to make a major point about the Doctor being female? The Master seems to have shrugged off a transgender regeneration and carried on like normal, I'd answer 'why not' simply because I'm completely open to it, the Doctor has been male 13 times before but I don't necessarily see anything intrinsically male about his character...the Doctor dosen't need to be female and there are definitely risks about putting an actress/the character on a pedestal with ill judged writing...but on the other hand I don't see why the Doctor should definitely remain male forever more. *Shrugs* It's a catch 22: Don't address, people get annoyed. Do address, people get annoyed. Either way, it's a short stick. Agreed...I'm open to it...but is the show itself? Would the actress be known as a Doctor who happens to be female, or the female Doctor?
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Jan 31, 2017 20:08:30 GMT
Nice poll, love all the options.
I voted it would split the fan base, but I'm not sure I'm totally opposed to it, I still think race should be changed before gender, but a woman of color would fix both, wouldn't it?
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 31, 2017 20:10:45 GMT
That's a tricky question. When I write fiction, I always try to make sure that my stories pass the Bechdel test, where 1.)Two female characters 2.)talk to each other 3.)about something that isn't a man.
Much has been written of it, and it's important to note that passing the test does not make a story progressive with regards to gender issues (Sucker Punch passes, Gravity and Pacific Rim fail). It's a measure of representation, nothing more, but it's interesting to note how many works fall short.
When I was writing my submission for the Paul Spragg Memorial Short Trips Competition, I flirted with the idea of making the main character a woman. I didn't, and there were two big reasons and one smaller one that I’m ashamed to acknowledge.
1.) I thought it would invite comparisons to the first Klein trilogy, wherein a brilliant but amoral (female) scientist finds redemption. 2.) The story involves the main character being humbled before being redeemed, and the tradition of a haughty woman getting her comeuppance when she steps out of line is something that has a long and ugly history in our society. And, as long as I’m being honest, 3.) I thought my story would have a better chance of being selected if the protagonist was a man. I don't have any reason to believe that anyone at Big Finish is in any way sexist(this is a reflection on me, not on Big Finish), but institutional sexism is real, so I did the math and figured that a story with a male protagonist would be an easier sell.
I’m not proud of the last one, and I like to think that I would not have made the choice I made if it were the only factor, but there it is. It wasn’t a big component, but it is a consideration I weighed when writing the story. I’d be lying if I said otherwise.
I would absolutely watch a show about a female Doctor. We very nearly got that with Romana II in Warrior’s Gate. However, two caveats:
1.) “If you shoot the king, you must kill him.” Meaning, a series with a female Doctor better be the best Doctor Who in ages. She’ll be receiving an ungodly amount of scrutiny. If she fails, then people will say “See! The concept doesn’t work! The Doctor can’t be a woman!” The actress will be a proxy for all women, which is bitterly unfair, but which is almost always how these kind of things play out. I’m reminded of xkcd comic with two panels. The first shows two stick figures. One is messing up a mathematical equation on a chalkboard, and the other figure says to him “You’re bad at math.” In the second panel, the figure writing on the chalkboard has a ponytail to denote that it’s a woman, and the figure says to her “Girls are bad at math.” I really think we’re only going to get one chance to do this, so they had best do it right the first time. 2.) Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are Dc’s Trinity, their big three. You can sum up Batman and Superman in a single sentence. Wonder Woman, not so much. Her origin story is constantly being rewritten and writers never seem to be able to agree She has to be all things to all women, and too often that obliterates any identity she might have. Flaws make a character interesting, so let her have flaws. Let her have passions. Let her have failures.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 31, 2017 20:27:06 GMT
Apologise in advance no offence is intended
The issue I think is sexual power, character likeability and age.
Apart from the 2 notable expectations all the Doctors have been played as completely asexual. I can't think of an Adult character Actress under 60 in recent years who has played a likeable character without an element of sexual confidence or a reliance on humour.
And if you cast over 60 how far to you go with stunts.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 21:00:25 GMT
I'd be in the keep The Doctor a male camp, as for me that's pretty much how I see The Doctor as a character. The Master is now Missy, which has worked fine, so we don't need The Doctor to now change for the sake of it; either to prove a point or just as a trendy gimmick. That would be the wrong reason for the BBC to go down that route. Now, if the people who produce Doctor Who in 2017/18 think that actress xxx xxx is the best person for the job out of every candidate, male or female, then I wouldn't be starting online petitions or writing to the Radio Times complaining.
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Post by muckypup on Jan 31, 2017 21:23:33 GMT
I would loath a female doctor, but maybe not as much as I dislike capaldi.
But please pick a decent actress, with some gravitas.
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Post by escalus5 on Jan 31, 2017 21:30:06 GMT
I honestly wasn't too keen on the casting of a female Doctor until I heard Nicola Bryant portray Sixie in The Widow's Assassin. Bryant did such a good job that by the end of the audio I was not only used to the idea of a female Doctor, I was anticipating it with some excitement.
However, I'm not too crazy about the actresses who have been mentioned. For example, Hayley Atwell doesn't strike me as being offbeat or "alien" enough for the role, as much as I've liked her in other things. I would prefer someone older and more eccentric -- Olivia Colman or even Minnie Driver would be terrific.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 31, 2017 22:07:29 GMT
For example, Hayley Atwell doesn't strike me as being offbeat or "alien" enough for the role, as much as I've liked her in other things. Nope. I disagree. I could easily imagine her as a David Tennant style of Doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 22:13:03 GMT
I honestly wasn't too keen on the casting of a female Doctor until I heard Nicola Bryant portray Sixie in The Widow's Assassin. Bryant did such a good job that by the end of the audio I was not only used to the idea of a female Doctor, I was anticipating it with some excitement. However, I'm not too crazy about the actresses who have been mentioned. For example, Hayley Atwell doesn't strike me as being offbeat or "alien" enough for the role, as much as I've liked her in other things. I would prefer someone older and more eccentric -- Olivia Colman or even Minnie Driver would be terrific. Same here. Could... Hmm... Could we have Nicola Bryant as the Thirteenth Doctor, do you reckon? I do like the potential of Atwell, but there are other options too. Elizabeth McGovern could be an interesting choice, I rather enjoyed her performance in Appointment with Death. "You've met Death, so have I," struck me as a very Doctorish line as was her consoling story about Gilgamesh. If it weren't for The Curse of Fatal Death, I'd say Joanna Lumley just as a person in spades.
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Post by muckypup on Jan 31, 2017 22:31:41 GMT
Sheridan smith for the doctor....
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 31, 2017 22:36:43 GMT
Sheridan smith for the doctor.... And Paul McGann for the voice of the new K9.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 23:06:09 GMT
By regenerating the Master into a woman, it has been written into the fictional world of Doctor Who that a Time Lord can become a Time Lady, so if the Doctor were to regenerate into a female, it wouldn't be detrimental to the continuity of the show - not that such things matter to any others outside fan circles. That Michelle Gomez has been so very good as Missy, the female Master, proves that a female Doctor could work. There are, I'm sure many other reasons why a female incarnation of our favourite Time Lord could superficially broaden the horizons of the show. But I still don't want a woman Doctor. I really don't. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 31, 2017 23:37:19 GMT
This isn't angry guys not wanting cooties or whatever in their beloved franchise. Lol... Well now that you mention it, I actually do get a tiny bit angry when my favorite franchise catches cooties. If there is a political demand for more strong female leads, then make the leads in new shows more often female. I'm not really sure if I think the show should have that responsibility, although I think it's often been able to serve that responsibility just by affording female companions or other female characters intelligence and dignity. Romana is ultimately such a strong female character that you can spin her off as Madame President of Gallifrey and if female characters with character are currently timely, I think DW is already way far ahead of the game there, and often, as opposed to tardy. (Kudos also due to the Sarah Jane Adventures and the ladies from Torchwood and UNIT, IMHO). If issue is actually going to be made about whether a female Doctor is portraying women in a flattering light, maybe it would appropriate to ask first whether the lead role in DW has always cast men in the most flattering light. Likewise, regeneration especially often seems to be a rather undignified business, and in my opinion The New Doctor is too rarely at their best when we first meet them - not necessarily the best time to attempt a political statement perhaps? I don't know if it's fair to require the show to portray women or diverse groups in sufficiently flattering light not only because of that, but also because the idea of an adventure drama in the first place may be somewhat that of putting characters into situations where they may not be at their best, or having a character do something not terribly bright (again!) in order to end up in suspenseful jeopardy. Eventually it may come down to how the individual sees things and it may be best not to dissect these things too much for that very reason. (Frankly no one on Blake's 7 seems at all very bright to me the minute I wonder why Avon doesn't just connect the bracelets directly to the tellyporter, but where would the fun in that be? It's way more dramatic if it requires a human operator who's always indisposed, so that someone else can always be stranded on a hostile planet). :-) I respond to Susan and Romana (and nearly all female companions from the OS actually) with "Wow, smart girls are awesome!" so I think they are notably progressive characters and especially for their vintage, yet at the same time I've read remarks from both Carole Ann Ford and Mary Tamm that seem to be to the effect that they didn't feel their gender was being best served by the amount of damsel-in-distress that was dished out to their characters. I actually do tend to agree with them while watching a season because I'm pretty sure I can easily enough spot some of the scenes that might have made them feel that way and they do tend to seem uncharacteristic to their roles. Thankfully, those moments don't reflect very much on how I think of their characters but it can be a bit of picking and choosing. There is the context of it, and unfortunately based on prior seasons of the New Series, I'm guessing the female Doctor will upon regeneration gorge on pickles and ice cream, paint the TARDIS pink, shop for shoes, spend half the first episode digging in her dimensionally-transcendent purse for Sonic Lipstick, and all that other "girly stuff" no doubt in the name of being lighthearted - and I question somewhat how much any of that is going to be widely regarded as progressive, even if it tries to seem almost obligatory (and even if the purse gag is technically simply the female version of the male Doctor's pockets gag). Maybe NS DW will be able to be the most progressive if it's not called upon to try too hard to be? As for the spirit of it, if the show is going to try to be deliberately progressive, I think I'd rather the New Doctor came from an audition that wasn't excluding anyone, rather than from an audition for a token _____ Doctor, and it was because the performer totally nailed the part... (but then, who wants to get into a debate about whether The Doctor should regenerate into a 12-year old? Because why not! Do you hate kids or something?) :-) How about if Romana can regenerate into Princess Astra, Capaldi can regenerate into Iris Wildthyme? Maybe that'd put a proper stop to that "Am I a good man?" nonsense. :-)
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Post by escalus5 on Feb 1, 2017 0:02:58 GMT
I honestly wasn't too keen on the casting of a female Doctor until I heard Nicola Bryant portray Sixie in The Widow's Assassin. Bryant did such a good job that by the end of the audio I was not only used to the idea of a female Doctor, I was anticipating it with some excitement. Same here. Could... Hmm... Could we have Nicola Bryant as the Thirteenth Doctor, do you reckon? I would be overjoyed if that happened. Unfortunately, Bryant isn't a "name" that could sell the program (she hasn't even made a television appearance in 7 years), and the stigma of the Sixth Doctor era would work against her. I like the idea of a former companion returning as the Doctor, though. The most likely candidate would be someone from the Big Finish audios, like Sheridan Smith.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 1, 2017 0:35:56 GMT
There is the context of it, and unfortunately based on prior seasons of the New Series, I'm guessing the female Doctor will upon regeneration gorge on pickles and ice cream, paint the TARDIS pink, shop for shoes, spend half the first episode digging in her dimensionally-transcendent purse for Sonic Lipstick, and all that other "girly stuff" no doubt in the name of being lighthearted - and I question somewhat how much any of that is going to be widely regarded as progressive, even if it tries to seem almost obligatory (and even if the purse gag is technically simply the female version of the male Doctor's pockets gag). Maybe NS DW will be able to be the most progressive if it's not called upon to try too hard to be? This summarises a lot of the potential concern when this topic is brought. Granted, Chibnall is probably smart enough to know this, but who knows if this is likely what they'd do (possibly as some kind of BBC mandate). ------------------------------------- And now, because I'm apparently 12, not the best of moments to have brought pickles into this discussion...
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Post by constonks on Feb 1, 2017 1:28:09 GMT
I would love Nicola Bryant to be the Doctor. Especially because she doesn't sound like Peri and looks different enough now. She's pretty much the only companion actor who could pull it off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 4:13:03 GMT
Same here. Could... Hmm... Could we have Nicola Bryant as the Thirteenth Doctor, do you reckon? I would be overjoyed if that happened. Unfortunately, Bryant isn't a "name" that could sell the program (she hasn't even made a television appearance in 7 years), and the stigma of the Sixth Doctor era would work against her. I like the idea of a former companion returning as the Doctor, though. The most likely candidate would be someone from the Big Finish audios, like Sheridan Smith. Mmm, I reckon that India Fisher could do a splendid job at it, but I can understand the hesitancy at such a casting. The risk you run is that people will inevitably accuse the programme of cannibalising its own history for ratings purposes. It's also hard to take the role seriously because of their prior appearance as a companion, it'd be a bit like having Katy Manning come back as the Fifth Doctor. However people may feel about her take on the Doctor, there will still inevitably still be the shadow of Jo Grant lurking in the background. Unlike Iris, the connection is too close. Nicola Bryant is a little bit different because of the time elapsed since her departure in 1986 and the fact that her faux American accent for Peri would definitely be dropped for a Doctor, meaning that the divide would be a lot wider.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 1, 2017 4:16:34 GMT
I have no interest in a female Doctor. Please don't tell me I'm sexist. I will take offense to that.
In general I have no interest in the trend of taking classically male characters and making them women. (I had no interest in Ghostbusters, for example.) I think it's lazy, gimmicky and uninteresting. I would rather see interesting, original female characters.
Will I continue to watch the show if The Doctor is female? I honestly don't know. Part of me says no, however I might catch it here and there. Mostly because I am interested in the kind of show Chibnall is building as opposed to being interested in The Doctor.
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