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Post by pawntake on Oct 6, 2016 12:54:42 GMT
Bit of disappointing news at the end of the news article for the release - saying that the War Doctor series is concluding in February. Hopefully BF can talk John Hurt into coming back for more. Yes that word concluding sounds a bit ominous!!
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Post by Timelord007 on Oct 6, 2016 12:57:47 GMT
Hopefully my box set will be here on Saturday, looking forward to hearing this set, i loved the previous two box sets.
I think that the War Doctor is just that a Doctor fighting a war & is possibly at war within his self & some of the things he's seen or had to do, i would loathe a box set were the Doctor went all Rambo that's not what this incarnation is about, it's the ole saving the needs of the many against the needs of the few & it's the ones the doctor can't save is what makes him the battle scarred war doctor, well that's my interpretation of it anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 13:04:57 GMT
If February's War Doctor set is to be the last, then alongside The Avengers and Dorian Grey ending, that will be a real disappointment. However, think of it this way - we're only just about to embark on War Doctor 3: we're only half way through!
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Oct 6, 2016 13:07:41 GMT
If February's War Doctor set is to be the last, then alongside The Avengers and Dorian Grey ending, that will be a real disappointment. However, think of it this way - we're only just about to embark on War Doctor 3: we're only half way through! If Volume 4 is the last War Doctor boxset , I think it's only fair for BF to do 4 8th Doctor time war boxsets a year to make up for it
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Post by elkawho on Oct 6, 2016 13:11:59 GMT
Just as a query, surely the fact 'he isn't different to any other Doctor' (a debatable point, but let's run with it) doesn't render his extistence pointless as you could say that about all the other Doctors. Well, I meant because he was created as a character who "broke the promise of The Doctor" - the point of the War Doctor is that he isn't like The Doctor and if he is I don't understand why his role couldn't have been filled by McGann. It's not that I think being like The Doctor inherently renders that incarnation pointless (in fact, it's important to have consistency between incarnations), it's that there was already a Doctor that could have played exactly the same role, and so far there has been very little (in my opinion) to justify having an entirely new incarnation. Oh well, I suppose it doesn't matter too much. At the very least there's been some great audios with a great lead actor - can't really complain at that. This may have been something that I wrote. I think exactly the same thing.
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Post by vividier on Oct 6, 2016 15:31:25 GMT
Listened to the Shadow Vortex at last. Really enjoyed it, the Cold War setting worked brilliantly and really suits the War Doctor and Time War. It also felt more Time War-y (for lack of a better term) than some of the previous audios with the way the story was resolved. Looking forward to hearing the next two.
EDIT: Just finished the Eternity Cage. I loved this one! With full on battles between the Daleks and Sontarans, and the War Doctor talking strategy and getting to properly interact with Gallifreyan soldiers, this really feels like the Doctor fighting on the front lines of the Time War. The Eternity Cage itself is a cool idea and was utilised well. The mini twist and cliff-hanger ending were brilliant. So far the Eternity Cage is the best War Doctor audio for me. Now onto Eye of Harmony.
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 6, 2016 19:56:33 GMT
So far I've heard the first two stories (excellent!) and was just too tired to finish the third last night. (Quite the cliffhanger there!) I think I share somewhat though in the sense of misgiving that others have expressed here, though. Given that we don't know if John will do a second series, it might have been better if the Time War saw more escalation here, even though it of course seems to feature The Doctor characteristically working at de-escalating things. I can't entertain an expectation that a Time War series with the Eight Doctor is going to see him up to his neck in it, so it tries to seem like our one chance to really get a good look at the Time War is slipping away. (Naturally I'd feel differently if turned out there will be a War Doctor 2 series and all hell breaks loose in it but that's nothing to be taking for granted). I think it's also an opportunity to frame the War Doctor against a backdrop of the horrors of war so that we're afforded a better perspective on his perspective and his choices (although these might also be explored in a philosophical discourse with Leela on war and being a warrior). Like others here seem to be saying, I don't think I want to see The Doctor on the offensive, yet the nature of war is such that eventually it is likely to demand uncharacteristic conduct from its participants. I think it's a neat take on War in the audios that part of shunning his name seems to be simply be trying to keep undercover, but I think the point's been driven home often enough that he does also have incentive for it because of having to do un-Doctor-like things at some point in the proceedings. DOTD does seem to create some expectations, both that I think we've already been informed that at some point the Time War sees him on the front lines, but to be The War Doctor in contrast to other Doctors may now require him to do something even more warlike than the weaponization of regeneration energy and the unbridled destruction of Daleks by the fleet, if I have my continuity halfway correct. So to summarize, The War Doctor 3 is brilliant but I really could have done with more explosions and I really really really hope John Hurt will consider doing a second series for Big Finish because things are still kind of just getting started - also because he is just brilliant how quickly he sold me on the whole proposition of his being The Doctor. I know people always say this performer or that would be brilliant reading the phone book, but I think John Hurt really is such a talent. Also, I have to hand it to Big Finish that CD:NM and this set seem to capture the pugnacious nature of the Sontarans perfectly, that they want in on the Time War for the "glory" of it. It's just what you'd expect of them, plus Dan Starkey is always great. And now about that cliffhanger... Postscript: After hearing The Eye of Harmony, I do think this is a well rounded set of stories and overall quite possibly my favorite War Doctor set so far because of it (also this deserves a complement, mainly to David Llewellyn, about the realism of the technobabble involved, since I am always griping when the New Series does the opposite), plus Yay, there are more explosions!
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Post by Timelord007 on Oct 6, 2016 21:25:27 GMT
Basically the war doctor is the mad max 2 road warrior incarnation in space.
I hope John Hurt does more, does anybody know if these box sets have sold well?
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Post by temporalspleen on Oct 6, 2016 22:05:48 GMT
I WANT to like this boxset, I really do. John Hurt is superb as always, as is the supporting cast; and the stories, while nothing groundbreaking, are solid adventure romps.
But I can't help but feel this series has been something of a missed opportunity. It used to be said that the Time War could be satisfyingly adapted, that it would be impossible to represent on TV (and presumably on audio). As much as I loved the Day of the Doctor I felt its representation of the Time War was rather weak, and had it been a more prominent part of the story I probably would have levelled more criticism at it. But if anyone could do the Time War justice, it's Big Finish's stable of intelligent and creative writers, many of whom are working on these sets. Which is why it pains me to see these being played so safe. So many of these feel little different than traditional Dalek stories with a Time War backdrop. So few stories actually stop to think about how a Time War might actually differ from a regular war. It might be unreasonable for me to expect levels of politicking akin to the Gallifrey series, but the Time Lords seem to have lost so much of their richness in their series. Ollistra is fantastic, no doubt about it, but Big Finish has so many other fantastic Time Lords they could have thrown into the mix like Romana, Brax, or Narvin. Perhaps Big Finish, wanting these to appeal to new series fans, were concerned about getting bogged down in continuity but it's a disservice to the vast extended universe that has been built up over 25 years not to at least in some way involve them in what is arguably THE defining event in Doctor Who history.
But there's one complaint I have above all the others. I was prepared to let it slide after the first boxset, it started niggling we after the second but now that we're three quarters of the way through I can't see this being satisfyingly rectified by the end: the War Doctor is no different from any other incarnation of the Doctor. Yes, Day of the Doctor slightly pinned his character as a bit less serious than I would like off the bat, but we could work around that. Yes, the reputation he has in the eyes of his future incarnations stems mostly from the belief he destroyed Gallifrey, which we know he never did. But the War Doctor at his inception was intended, by the Eighth Doctor with the aid of the Sisterhood of Karn, to be a "warrior". Yet he spends the series acting on his own and only ever getting roped into directly serving the Time Lords by Ollistra and her lackeys. He's not a soldier, he's outright referred to as a civilian in this boxset. I'm not saying I want the Doctor mercilessly chainsawing Daleks with impunity Abslom Daak style, but a bit more callous, a bit less numb to his emotions. The Twelfth Doctors lets someone die in Into the Dalek and doesn't bat an eyelid. It's shocking, yes, but not wholly out of character. Yet the War Doctor, supposedly fighting a war for decades, can't let someone die without giving them a eulogy. One has to wonder that had the Seventh Doctor not stepped out onto the wrong street in San Francisco and lived to see the Time War, he'd probably have sorted the whole thing out in a matter of hours by the simple virtue of actually being somewhat morally dubious (though I am an unabashed Seventh Doctor fanboy, so this is definitely biased).
I can't even call these sets bad. They're great fun while listening to and taken in isolation. I just wish Big Finish had taken more of a risk to deliver something truly groundbreaking for the War Doctor and the Time War, rather than sticking to what's safe. I am interested to see what they do with Leela in the next set and I do hope John Hurt stays around a bit longer, but maybe now that they have the rights it's time for Big Finish to do some non-Doctor Time War stories. A story with Alex MacQueen's Master doing some dodgy work for the CIA, and explaining why he chose to run and hide, perhaps? Or a Gallifrey: Time War boxset with Romana, Narvin et al? There's so much potential still out there, and just because these sets barely tapped that potential doesn't mean the opportunity isn't there for future releases.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 0:26:38 GMT
What temporalspleen said. I am enjoying these box sets as regular Doctor Who stories starring John Hurt, which is a disappointment. The Time War is little more than a backdrop (or veneer?) on stories that could be told in any other era.
As others have pointed out they contain a lot of John Hurt telling (read: shouting) but not showing us that he is not The Doctor. But he is more moral (more "The Doctor"?) than McCoy's incarnation.
McCoy's incarnation might make a better War Doctor than John Hurt's. I'm thinking of Legion of the Lost in particular here: what if it starred McCoy instead?
Part of the synopsis from The Neverwhen even admits that the War Doctor is still very moral because he can be shocked by horror: I draw attention to the word "even." Nothing we have seen so far has given us the impression that the word "even" is justified, especially when compared to McCoy's "real" Doctor.
But what if the above synopsis was referring to a Slyvester McCoy story instead? Something like: How does that story sound by comparison?
Disclaimer: I have not even started this third box set yet.
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Post by icecreamdf on Oct 7, 2016 1:01:17 GMT
I think part of the point of the War Doctor is that, despite his protestations, he really is the Doctor. He can shout about being a monster all he wants, and he may be a bit darker than his other incarnations, but in the end he still always does the right thing.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 7, 2016 5:11:10 GMT
I think it's now safe to assume that volume 4 will end with War heading off to Moldax or deciding "no more"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 11:19:08 GMT
I think part of the point of the War Doctor is that, despite his protestations, he really is the Doctor. He can shout about being a monster all he wants, and he may be a bit darker than his other incarnations, but in the end he still always does the right thing. Yes, this is what I've taken from him right from Day Of The Doctor onwards - the only thing that seperates him is that he had the gall to push the button and end it all in The Time War. 10 and 11 say to him in the castle dungeon "it's still to come for you, you haven't done it yet" so I've always taken it that it was his use of The Moment that they were so abhorred by rather than his whole existence. I think some folks expected a Doctor who was more like David Collings' from Full Fathom Five. Indeed some wanted a the audios to show a truly monstrous incarnation of The Doctor but I don't think that was ever likely to happen nor would it have made sense given what we saw of him in the 50th. This was a man who had seen all of the War by that point...but still had time to make banter about sandshoes and fezs, get uppity about being called grandad and make numerous little jokes and digs. Sounds very...Doctorish to me! As a bit of my own fan-theory, I like to remember it was Ohilia - a friend and mentor to The Doctor we can assume - who gives him the elixir that ultimately makes him a "warrior". When she says "I took the liberty of making this one myself", I like to think she told him it was "warrior", but it was pretty much the same man he would have been anyway. Just my theory but one I think borne out by the series and where Moffat has taken the characters.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Oct 7, 2016 13:30:07 GMT
I think David is right. These box sets were never going to be Dirty Harry in a TARDIS. I think the primary characteristic of this Doctor is how weary and angry he is. It is this exhaustion, frustration and anger that pushes him to lose all hope and it is the loss of hope that pushes him to do the unthinkable.
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Post by icecreamdf on Oct 7, 2016 14:08:32 GMT
Did Nick Briggs voice the time strategist? If so, it is impressive that he can still come up with new Dalek voices. He sounded like a cross between a Dalek and Axos.
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Post by chapwithwings on Oct 8, 2016 9:42:01 GMT
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 9, 2016 7:39:12 GMT
I always wondered why Earth was protected. I assumed it was the Doctor's doing before becoming the Warrior. Later, before it was all but spelt out, in Shadow Vortex I assumed it was the Time Lords buying the Doctor's loyalty, but once the Time Strategist started villain monologuing I realised it was to protect the Doctor, as Cardinal Servelan says, he's Gallifrey's ultimate weapon. Nuke Earth and you take out just about all the Doctor's companions.
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Post by eric009 on Oct 9, 2016 18:58:55 GMT
I always wondered why Earth was protected. I assumed it was the Doctor's doing before becoming the Warrior. Later, before it was all but spelt out, in Shadow Vortex I assumed it was the Time Lords buying the Doctor's loyalty, but once the Time Strategist started villain monologuing I realised it was to protect the Doctor, as Cardinal Servelan says, he's Gallifrey's ultimate weapon. Nuke Earth and you take out just about all the Doctor's companions. NUKE earth daleks would never do that, plague bomb would be more they like them
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Post by icecreamdf on Oct 9, 2016 19:33:11 GMT
I always wondered why Earth was protected. I assumed it was the Doctor's doing before becoming the Warrior. Later, before it was all but spelt out, in Shadow Vortex I assumed it was the Time Lords buying the Doctor's loyalty, but once the Time Strategist started villain monologuing I realised it was to protect the Doctor, as Cardinal Servelan says, he's Gallifrey's ultimate weapon. Nuke Earth and you take out just about all the Doctor's companions. NUKE earth daleks would never do that, plague bomb would be more they like them They did seem pretty interested in the nukes.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 10, 2016 7:30:50 GMT
Did anyone else get the impression Lara was previously an ertze-companion for War? That some time in their past he tried to use her services/experiments (she's does say something about no one using her again). And I'd this the first time we've seen War do something that his previous incarnations wouldn't have done without absolutely last resort and a lot of hand wringing? yes, he still gives Lara a chance to surrender etc, but at the same time he already had a plan in his mind to do something worse than kill her. He doesn't hesitate, he doesn't offer one last chance or anything like that. He escapes, he captures Lara and dooms her to a paradoxical non-existence in an alternate timeline and takes out the Shadow Vortex. For once, he's as pragmatic as he says he is. She's a known Dalek agent. She's on Earth. She a danger to everything so she needs to go, and he clinically takes her out without a second thought.
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