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Post by jasonward on Aug 3, 2016 10:50:19 GMT
I don't see how companions can allowed (from preserved timeline perspective) to routinely remember what The Doctor cannot. Companions could just tell The Doctor what happened, and for the most part why wouldn't they? And then the timeline would be all messed up again.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Aug 3, 2016 11:59:26 GMT
Susan mentions last seeing the Doctor in his fifth incarnation in An Earthly Child. So, at least according to Big Finish, she does remember. Susan seems to be the exception to this particular rule. For a long time, the expanded universe followed the example of The War Games where the events of stories like The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors and The Trial of a Time Lord were erased to preserve the integrity of the timeline. Not completely, as we saw with the Sixth Doctor in Time of Your Life (who only remembered bits and pieces), but enough so that future events and knowledge of Time Lord interference was kept as minimal as possible. It's possible that Susan remembers seeing her grandfather in the Death Zone, but not what exactly happened there. After all, knowledge of Rassilon's tomb is something I think they'd probably prefer to keep in quiet secrecy rather than spreading around the universe. Gallifrey doesn't need any more reason to be attacked by tech pirates or bodysnatchers like the Death Collectors. The Pertwee Doctor remembers events of The Three Doctors, and The Davison Doctor remembers events of The Five Doctors - Both cases involved the most recent Doctor at that time. Trial wasn't a multi-Doctor story, and it was never stated if the Baker Doctor had his memory of events yet to come were erased from his memory. I haven't read Time of Your Life. Susan, at the time of The Five Doctors was the most recent Susan. She should remember events. Again, never stated on tv that her memories would be erased.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:44:40 GMT
Susan seems to be the exception to this particular rule. For a long time, the expanded universe followed the example of The War Games where the events of stories like The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors and The Trial of a Time Lord were erased to preserve the integrity of the timeline. Not completely, as we saw with the Sixth Doctor in Time of Your Life (who only remembered bits and pieces), but enough so that future events and knowledge of Time Lord interference was kept as minimal as possible. It's possible that Susan remembers seeing her grandfather in the Death Zone, but not what exactly happened there. After all, knowledge of Rassilon's tomb is something I think they'd probably prefer to keep in quiet secrecy rather than spreading around the universe. Gallifrey doesn't need any more reason to be attacked by tech pirates or bodysnatchers like the Death Collectors. The Pertwee Doctor remembers events of The Three Doctors, and The Davison Doctor remembers events of The Five Doctors - Both cases involved the most recent Doctor at that time. Trial wasn't a multi-Doctor story, and it was never stated if the Baker Doctor had his memory of events yet to come were erased from his memory. I haven't read Time of Your Life. Susan, at the time of The Five Doctors was the most recent Susan. She should remember events. Again, never stated on tv that her memories would be erased. No, but it makes perfect sense if an attempt was made to make sure they were. It'd be silly for them not to particularly given that they have the technology and the perpetrators are spatiotemporally speaking right within their sphere of influence. Jamie remembered his travels with the Doctor due to mental tricks he'd been taught to overcome such mind-altering techniques (something that sounds very Season 6b-ish now that I think of it) if you follow The World Shapers and Zoe got the occasional recollection during her time with the Company, so it's not as if their minds are entirely wiped in the expanded universe. The memory erasure process seems to smudge the specifics a great deal for those whose timelines would otherwise be adversely affected by foreknowledge of events. It wouldn't make sense to brain-buff the then current Doctor because those events occurred in his present timeframe. In the case of the Third Doctor, knowledge of his engagement with Omega was vital because otherwise there wouldn't be an explanation for why the Time Lords had forgiven him and gifted him a brand new dematerialisation circuit, not to mention restoring his memory of temporal mechanics which had been blocked since Spearhead from Space. Besides, I don't think it would really have any bearing on Susan making her debut in NuWho. An acknowledgement is nice, but Susan's story would have to keep powering onwards rather than sitting immobile in the past. There's been a long enough period between visits that I think a great deal more immediate stuff would take precedent.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Aug 6, 2016 23:09:06 GMT
Besides, I don't think it would really have any bearing on Susan making her debut in NuWho. An acknowledgement is nice, but Susan's story would have to keep powering onwards rather than sitting immobile in the past. There's been a long enough period between visits that I think a great deal more immediate stuff would take precedent. Because someone inevitably has to bring a little animu into this discussion, part of me felt that a good time to do something with Susan was back during the Promised Land arc. Allow me to illustrate (Skip to 1:03) www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRA5gsdCf4cImagine that 12 thinks he's died, and as some kind of cruel trick or joke, Missy has what seems to be Susan, almost angelic like, appear to him and reach out her hand, saying something akin to 'It's over now, Grandfather. You've done enough. It's time to go.'
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 23:48:58 GMT
Besides, I don't think it would really have any bearing on Susan making her debut in NuWho. An acknowledgement is nice, but Susan's story would have to keep powering onwards rather than sitting immobile in the past. There's been a long enough period between visits that I think a great deal more immediate stuff would take precedent. Because someone inevitably has to bring a little animu into this discussion, part of me felt that a good time to do something with Susan was back during the Promised Land arc. Allow me to illustrate (Skip to 1:03) www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRA5gsdCf4cImagine that 12 thinks he's died, and as some kind of cruel trick or joke, Missy has what seems to be Susan, almost angelic like, appear to him and reach out her hand, saying something akin to 'It's over now, Grandfather. You've done enough. It's time to go.' Oh, wow, that sounds amazing and was a lot less dark than what I was thinking of. I was imagining something analogous to Sloth from the 2003 series, an entity that had taken on Susan's form and part of her memories from what was left within the Matrix. I think Capaldi could have made the angelic Susan just that little bit more awesome with little touches of Hartnell flickering through from beneath. "No grandfather should outlive his grandchild." It would be hard to deny that temptation, the opportunity to finally rest after trying so long to make everything right.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Aug 19, 2016 21:00:04 GMT
Because someone inevitably has to bring a little animu into this discussion, part of me felt that a good time to do something with Susan was back during the Promised Land arc. Allow me to illustrate (Skip to 1:03) www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRA5gsdCf4cImagine that 12 thinks he's died, and as some kind of cruel trick or joke, Missy has what seems to be Susan, almost angelic like, appear to him and reach out her hand, saying something akin to 'It's over now, Grandfather. You've done enough. It's time to go.' Oh, wow, that sounds amazing and was a lot less dark than what I was thinking of. I was imagining something analogous to Sloth from the 2003 series, an entity that had taken on Susan's form and part of her memories from what was left within the Matrix. I think Capaldi could have made the angelic Susan just that little bit more awesome with little touches of Hartnell flickering through from beneath. "No grandfather should outlive his grandchild." It would be hard to deny that temptation, the opportunity to finally rest after trying so long to make everything right. Nice to find another FMA enthusiast in these parts. I had also thought, just as an aside, that at 0:23 of the intro, there´s an abstract bit where Ed sees the Homunculi, and I could totally imagine a nightmare sequence of some kind where 12 sees these hellish visages of Missy, The Rani, The War Chief, The Monk, Omega, Morbius and then at the end, Donald Sumpter's Rassilon (and if shot right, he could look really menacing in a sort of red half light). Yes, supremely fanjodrellish, but one day...
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 29, 2016 14:31:22 GMT
Given what Chibnail has in store is still firmly up in the air, maybe he'll be the one to bring her back. Maybe as an arc, as a thematic motif or even as a cameo if he writes a 55th special.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Nov 29, 2016 15:32:32 GMT
No. Its been too long and she'd end up either being a Clara type character at the beginning or after a regeneration.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 9, 2016 17:24:07 GMT
Susan mentions last seeing the Doctor in his fifth incarnation in An Earthly Child. So, at least according to Big Finish, she does remember. Some days, I consider Big Finish more Canonical than The T.V Show as it is always striving to keep in line other pieces of continuity. What exactly do you mean by that?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 18:47:29 GMT
Some days, I consider Big Finish more Canonical than The T.V Show as it is always striving to keep in line other pieces of continuity. What exactly do you mean by that? To be Honest, that was right after a bad day and I was just venting, so I don't even know anymore. Sorry for being no help.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 9, 2016 22:40:11 GMT
What exactly do you mean by that? To be Honest, that was right after a bad day and I was just venting, so I don't even know anymore. Sorry for being no help. Ah well, we all have them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2016 22:42:17 GMT
To be Honest, that was right after a bad day and I was just venting, so I don't even know anymore. Sorry for being no help. Ah well, we all have them. Thanks for understanding. Have a great day.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 16, 2017 19:06:15 GMT
Because someone inevitably has to bring a little animu into this discussion, part of me felt that a good time to do something with Susan was back during the Promised Land arc. Allow me to illustrate (Skip to 1:03) www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRA5gsdCf4cImagine that 12 thinks he's died, and as some kind of cruel trick or joke, Missy has what seems to be Susan, almost angelic like, appear to him and reach out her hand, saying something akin to 'It's over now, Grandfather. You've done enough. It's time to go.' Oh, wow, that sounds amazing and was a lot less dark than what I was thinking of. I was imagining something analogous to Sloth from the 2003 series, an entity that had taken on Susan's form and part of her memories from what was left within the Matrix. I think Capaldi could have made the angelic Susan just that little bit more awesome with little touches of Hartnell flickering through from beneath. "No grandfather should outlive his grandchild." It would be hard to deny that temptation, the opportunity to finally rest after trying so long to make everything right. In light of more recent info, I feel like the time for her return may have kinda passed. With S10 in the bag, I can´t imagine she´ll appear and being Capaldi´s final season, it would´ve been a good time for it. Especially if we are going female next regen: one last story for the Doctor to finally cast off the last shackles of his family and paternal life, now free to become something else entirely.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 13:36:02 GMT
Oh, wow, that sounds amazing and was a lot less dark than what I was thinking of. I was imagining something analogous to Sloth from the 2003 series, an entity that had taken on Susan's form and part of her memories from what was left within the Matrix. I think Capaldi could have made the angelic Susan just that little bit more awesome with little touches of Hartnell flickering through from beneath. "No grandfather should outlive his grandchild." It would be hard to deny that temptation, the opportunity to finally rest after trying so long to make everything right. In light of more recent info, I feel like the time for her return may have kinda passed. With S10 in the bag, I can´t imagine she´ll appear and being Capaldi´s final season, it would´ve been a good time for it. Especially if we are going female next regen: one last story for the Doctor to finally cast off the last shackles of his family and paternal life, now free to become something else entirely. Yeah. I was half-hoping to go the Storm of Angels route {Spoiler} and have her turn up as President of the Time Lords.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 26, 2017 22:49:28 GMT
Also, cast me in the skeptical camp that One and Susan'll be in the Xmas special.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 23:17:57 GMT
They could always bring her back as a new companion, someone the Doctor meets and has an instant bond with, but doesn't really know why. The whole Timelords can sense each other thing has been pretty elastic over the years, so you could write around that easily enough, or just have her having used a chameleon arch to escape the Time War/The Daleks, so she doesn't know who she really is either. Then eventually uncover the mystery of her past and reveal her to be Susan, complete with flashback story sequence featuring Carole Ann Ford, which ends with her regenerating into the new companion. And if they did it something like that then people would judge the actress chosen based solely as a new companion first, rather than on taking over an iconic character, so it would be an easier transition to make.* That's the way I'd approach it, anyway. But what do I know? Point is, I think there are plenty of ways that they could conceivably make bringing back Susan work, but if it were to happen sometime in the not too distant, it would be nice if Carole Ann Ford at least got a bit of a look in and acknowledgement at some point along the way, too. * I've actually wondered for a while now if Moffat isn't already doing this with Bill in some convoluted kind of way. Bill - a nod to William Hartnell? Rumours of the First Doctor being recast and appearing at Christmas. Susan's photo on Twelve's desk. Probably just me being human and always seeing patterns in things that aren't there. Probably...
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 7:39:39 GMT
Yes played by Kelly Brook.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 28, 2017 19:31:00 GMT
Also, cast me in the skeptical camp that One and Susan'll be in the Xmas special. I would have thought Moffat would have been more likely to have Susan return without 1 at Christmas, but the bizarre First Doctor rumours definitely seem to be true to me. It could be a mistake.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on May 30, 2017 4:45:12 GMT
I think that Susan coming back would need a strong story behind it. Something that respects her character and her Big Finish appearances, but moves on in new and interesting directions. The Five Doctors really missed a trick with having the Doctor reunited with his grandchild and I really wouldn't want any new appearances to suffer from that same missed potential. Better to wait until there's a great story than bring her in "jus because."
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 30, 2017 8:59:05 GMT
I think that Susan coming back would need a strong story behind it. Something that respects her character and her Big Finish appearances, but moves on in new and interesting directions. The Five Doctors really missed a trick with having the Doctor reunited with his grandchild and I really wouldn't want any new appearances to suffer from that same missed potential. Better to wait until there's a great story than bring her in "jus because." There's already a strong narrative reason built-in: The Doctor finally returning to his granddaughter.
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