|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 1, 2017 19:18:07 GMT
So thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by acousticwolf on Jan 1, 2017 22:17:16 GMT
**Moderation**
Guys, I know why this has happened but it isn't appropriate to goad and could result in action against you. Action has already been taken over the other threads, and people are not in a position to respond to this at the moment.
I would suggest removing your posts and getting back on topic. Thanks
**End Moderation**
EDIT: These posts have been moved by the Mod team pending further discussion
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 1, 2017 22:25:53 GMT
Moving along to the actual subject...
I'll be posting up a review of the episode shortly. Short jist: good television but very been there, done that. Also, the Thatchers felt less signifcant than I thought they would've been. They could really be anything and you'd have the same episode. Might as well have been The Six Majors or the Six Camerons.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jan 1, 2017 22:29:47 GMT
Alright 1st proper post.
Wasn't too bad
I wonder if it was intended to end that way or re-written in light of real life events, if its a re-write it was good one.
Regards
mark687
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 22:47:09 GMT
Well, certainly a very dark start to the series. I thought the theme has been building quite nicely of Sherlock's hubris being his downfall over the past few series and this certainly came to a head tonight with Mary's death. The split between Watson and Holmes makes sense because Sherlock isn't merely happy to solve the crime, he had to have his sidekicks to bear witness to his genius. Watson knows without his friends insane ego and need for an audience, his wife wouldn't have been killed. That's a perfectly understandable reason for John to turn on Sherlock but, unlike a lot of broken friendships in TV, also feels like it's true to the way both characters have always been written. There's no re-written or altered characters to make Sherlock and John change, they're the same...but they've played the game once too often and only with Mary's death do either of them see that. Very bittersweet - wonderful drama but heartbreaking.
The plot itself was good - I really liked that the pearl from The Six Napoleons became the USB stick here. Treasure is only worth what someone is willing to pay and Mary and Sacha Dhawan's character were both prepared to kill for their USBs. To them, they're more valuable than any pearl. The ep tied into Mary's story a lot more than I would have thought given The show has essentially been off-air for two years. A few details may be missed by more casual viewers. Still, the story was well written enough that all the relevant information was there. I'd never made the AGRA connection before but that was the name of the treasure hoarde in The Sign Of Four, where the fur parties who own the treasure have a pact not to betray the others. Nice to take a big part of that story and smash it together with Six Napoleons. Having the villain of the piece, who exposes Sherlock's hubris no less, be called Norbury - just as in The Adventure of the Yellow Face - was another nice nod to Doyle.
The direction was solid - Who alumni Rachel Talalay shows why she's one of the best at genre TV in the visuals and a lot of the setups. It had quite a cinematic feel and almost every frame looked like a screensaver in waiting. Dense with beauty and the colour scheme changed subtly with the mood. Particularly loved the aquarium bleeding into view every so often. Sherlock also seemed to have a flashback when he was knocked out. Him, his dog and another boy (Mycroft? Toby Jones?) so I expect that will return in the next few weeks.
Must admit, when John joked to Mary about getting a divorce that was quite a chilling line given they're just this past week announced their real life separation.
All in all a very brooding, intense start to what I think will be the last series we get of Sherlock. As someone who lists Toby Jones as one of my favourite actors on Earth I am very, very excited for next week.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 22:50:28 GMT
Alright 1st proper post. Wasn't too bad I wonder if it was intended to end that way or re-written in light of real life events, if its a re-write it was good one. Regards mark687 Not in a million years was that a re-write. The whole ep was building to that ending and the fallout will be massive on what follows. You couldn't do that on the fly - everything in the whole series would have to change with it.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 2, 2017 0:32:36 GMT
Ending was unexpected, but the episode was perfectly put together.
I don't think it was a rewrite at all, the episode was structured as a 'pride before a fall'. Sherlock builds himself up like he can completely protect Mary (especially after getting off scot-free for what he did to do so last series) buys into his infallibility, but ultimately he's as powerless as anyone else to save her.
Also the Sherlock-fan in me loved the 'Thatcher's the new Napoleon' wink
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Jan 2, 2017 8:21:28 GMT
David's covered all the bases on this episode, a brilliant season opener, Mark Gatiss script oozed drama, mystery, intrigue & heartbreak, my only issue i had is i didn't buy into John's affair that could've easily have been cut out.
Cumberbatch would've made a awesome Doctor Who after watching his performance last night.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 8:30:39 GMT
I quite liked John's affair from a dramatic standpoint. It meant that he couldn't be too angry at Mary from going AWOL when he's keeping a worse secret himself. Let's be honest, he's been written as pretty perfect with no real character flaws 'till now. He's never been the guilty party in any of the drama of the past six years so I quite liked making him seem more vulnerable as someone who can make a mistake like that. He's more human because of it, I'd say. It could have come off as quite soapy but I believed it. Cumberbatch's reason for never wanting to be Doctor Who, quite notoriously, was not being comfortable having his face on lunchboxes (i.e. all the commercialisation, with massive fame and scrutiny) - I don't think he knew Sherlock would be as massive as it has been as he's ended up that way anyway. And, of course, he's Doctor Strange now...I bet you Marvel have his faces on quite a few lunchboxes by now
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 2, 2017 11:00:00 GMT
Cumberbatch's reason for never wanting to be Doctor Who, quite notoriously, was not being comfortable having his face on lunchboxes (i.e. all the commercialisation, with massive fame and scrutiny) - I don't think he knew Sherlock would be as massive as it has been as he's ended up that way anyway. And, of course, he's Doctor Strange now...I bet you Marvel have his faces on quite a few lunchboxes by now He'd better get over that now he's on a Marvel contract. Its a shame as he'd make a very good Doctor.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 11:37:53 GMT
Cumberbatch's reason for never wanting to be Doctor Who, quite notoriously, was not being comfortable having his face on lunchboxes (i.e. all the commercialisation, with massive fame and scrutiny) - I don't think he knew Sherlock would be as massive as it has been as he's ended up that way anyway. And, of course, he's Doctor Strange now...I bet you Marvel have his faces on quite a few lunchboxes by now He'd better get over that now he's on a Marvel contract. Its a shame as he'd make a very good Doctor. I daresay he has - no-one expected Sherlock to make him such an icon so he had the fame and scrutiny thrust upon him regardless. When he rejected the chance to be The Doctor, or the chance to go for it depending on who is telling the story, he was a highly regarded young actor but hadn't quite broken through. After he learned to deal with the huge fame Sherlock brought he's clearly come to terms with that aspect or he wouldn't be doing Marvel, or have played an iconic character like Khan in Star Trek. I'd say he's past the lunchbox issue now. That said, my old rule of thumb applies when people moot him as a Doctor - would he work nightshifts in Cardiff 9 months a year for well under a million quid? Nowadays, not a hope in hell. In 2009 when he was courted for Who it was more feasible but that ship has long since sailed. He'll make more money in his next Marvel film, now Strange has been such a smash, than playing The Doctor (or Sherlock) for 10 series.
|
|
|
Post by kimalysong on Jan 2, 2017 12:12:14 GMT
I wouldn't want Benedict Cumberbatch for Doctor Who. He's too big and iconic himself now. It just wouldn't work for me.
As for the episode it was enjoyable ignoring the fact I was spoiled about Mary by insincere people and trolls. But I did like her, she was a good character so I was sorry to see her go. Even though I feel like Sherlock Holmes stories work better with Sherlock & John not + wife. Granted John always had a wife in the original story, maybe even more than one. And it seems in canon he did lose her so it works that he lost her here too.
Some people also speculate that Watson was a womanizer. So the affair works for me too.
Of course mixed feelings about bringing a baby into the mix. Though Sherlock trying to babysit was funny.
Of course it will be interesting to see where this set back takes the Sherlock & John relationship. Sherlock's flaws are augmented in this story and it wouldn't right if the story let him get away with them but it wouldn't be Sherlock Holmes if John doesn't find it in himself to forgive Sherlock. You need both Holmes & Watson. No matter how many wives Watson may of had his most important and lasting relationship was always with Holmes. And that is something I wouldn't want to see lost in this version of the story.
This Mary though was probably the most interesting wife Watson ever had.
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 2, 2017 16:07:30 GMT
|
|
|
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 2, 2017 19:06:20 GMT
I quite liked John's affair from a dramatic standpoint. It meant that he couldn't be too angry at Mary from going AWOL when he's keeping a worse secret himself. I don't think the affair is worse than John's other half journeying around the world in hiding because of a man who wants to kill her because he (wrongly) believes she betrayed him.
|
|
|
Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 3, 2017 12:36:28 GMT
I think the Boy in the flashback/dream Sherlock has, is Sherringford, the other Holmes brother who Mycroft speaks to on the phone at the end
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Jan 3, 2017 16:25:52 GMT
John & Mary had a child & next thing he wants to dip his toe in someone elses swimming pool makes him look a complete s..t, I'm no angel but anyone i had fun with was single as was i, if i had become a dad i wouldn't be on the pull I'd be supporting my wife & child.
Anyway rant over, i enjoyed it on the whole.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 3, 2017 18:42:00 GMT
John & Mary had a child & next thing he wants to dip his toe in someone elses swimming pool makes him look a complete s..t, I'm no angel but anyone i had fun with was single as was i, if i had become a dad i wouldn't be on the pull I'd be supporting my wife & child. Anyway rant over, i enjoyed it on the whole. It is our flaws which make us human and how we deal with such flaws that go a long way to determining what kind of people we truly are. Besides, perfect people & no conflict makes for really boring drama.
|
|
|
Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 3, 2017 18:46:24 GMT
I thought it was a marked improvement on previous years (although they shouldn't have had Mary select THOSE NAMES on her passport. It kinda gave away to people familiar with "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes" what was likely to happen....)
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Jan 3, 2017 22:19:56 GMT
John & Mary had a child & next thing he wants to dip his toe in someone elses swimming pool makes him look a complete s..t, I'm no angel but anyone i had fun with was single as was i, if i had become a dad i wouldn't be on the pull I'd be supporting my wife & child. Anyway rant over, i enjoyed it on the whole. It is our flaws which make us human and how we deal with such flaws that go a long way to determining what kind of people we truly are. Besides, perfect people & no conflict makes for really boring drama. Yeah but having affair after just becoming a dad made me dislike John that to me is lowest of the low, i think there's some twist to come with that woman.
|
|
|
Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 3, 2017 23:11:00 GMT
It is our flaws which make us human and how we deal with such flaws that go a long way to determining what kind of people we truly are. Besides, perfect people & no conflict makes for really boring drama. Yeah but having affair after just becoming a dad made me dislike John that to me is lowest of the low, i think there's some twist to come with that woman. It's not like any reason was even given for it. It was just random.
|
|