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Post by mrperson on Mar 26, 2017 19:29:41 GMT
The doctor was found in the desert by a tourist and dropped off at the cafe. As I said, he arrives at the cafe by car. While not a plothole, it was quite bizarre. I mean....why was he just going on a hitchhiking tour of America? Why ask to get dropped off at that particular cafe, in the middle of nowhere? Was he just wandering around trying to think over what happened to his memory and it was a spectacular coincidence that he arrived at that exact point in space-time? Anyway, as for paul.... Paul, a plot hole is not something that isn't completely explained. It is a logical flaw in a fictional story. It goes against the flow of logic established in the story's plot, and with something like Who, something that goes against flow of logic established in other stories plots and there is nothing added to the flow of logic to resolve the issue. Further, a plot hole is generally something essential to the story's outcome. They don't show us what the Doctor ate for breakfast, and nobody ever has to go to the bathroom. It's just not explained. How can they keep going on adventures if they never engage in basic biological functions? PLOT HOLE! Nope.... that stuff is omitted because of course it bloody is. It has nothing to do with the plot, let alone being essential to its outcome. So, elsewhere, you say: "Why did Psi (think he had) sacrificed his life, when he was the one person that could erase his memories, and not be affected by the Teller?"Easy. He panicked. Being killed is generally held to be a disturbing event, and people tend not to think with absolute clarity unless they're Navy Seals. "Why didn't the Teller simply turn Madame Karabraxos's brain to soup, and rescue its mate itself? The Teller knew the vault combination! "Maybe its mate would be automatically executed if Karabraxos's brain were turned to soup, to protect against that exact eventuality; because the Teller could read her mind, it would know. "The Doctor paints the portrait of Clara, yet when the castle is reset, the painting is complete. Surely, after a reset, the canvas would be blank? "Did he paint it? I don't recall that ever being shown. It could have been pulled from his memory or something. The entire thing was supposed to be a modified confession dial designed specifically to get him to blab about "the Hybrid". Maybe it's there to taunt him. Maybe it's there to make him pause so that the Veil can catch up with him in that room. "If Danny is dead, then how can Listen ever happen?"He got someone else pregnant before he died. Again. These aren't gaps that contradict the logical flow of the story or past stories. They're just questions whose answers weren't explicitly shown to you that have multiple plausible and non-essential solutions. Don't get me wrong. There are certainly plot holes in Who and I do tend to agree they picked up speed in the Moffat era. (For example, the events of Forest of the Night or whatever it was called would cause a global catastrophe as every single major city collapsed upon withdrawal of the roots, nevermind that that should have happened when the forest sprang up.). But "plot hole" simply doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 26, 2017 19:38:47 GMT
Nope. It's in the same way that The Water of Mars didn't. We all have a dark side and Hell Bent was the 12th Doctor's Time Lord Victorious. "never cowardly, never cruel". There's your difference. He violated his fundamental oath, he violated himself, because Clara. Not even, because he could have simply shot the General in the foot* if he wasn't being taken seriously. So not only was his life not being threatened, he killed for no reason. He considered himself a monster for fighting in the Time War despite it being a matter of species survival, and now he's just going to shoot an innocent person down? (And don't get me started on how ridiculous it is for Clara to be the one and only companion that he just couldn't stand to part with. He abandoned his own granddaughter on Earth, for chrissake. There was nothing special about Clara except the silliness involving her jumping into his timestream. I better not get started on that, either). *(I know, I know, when you're actually shooting someone you aim for the torso because hitting a foot would be pointlessly difficult; but then, according to Missy, the Doctor can move his wrist from waist level to above his head in two nanoseconds (Witch's familiar speech in the beginning). I haven't done the math, but I suspect that that 2-3 feet in two billions of a second is somewhere near the speed of light.) Death is just flu for a Time Lord. Not really cruel.
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Post by mrperson on Mar 26, 2017 19:40:47 GMT
"never cowardly, never cruel". There's your difference. He violated his fundamental oath, he violated himself, because Clara. Not even, because he could have simply shot the General in the foot* if he wasn't being taken seriously. So not only was his life not being threatened, he killed for no reason. He considered himself a monster for fighting in the Time War despite it being a matter of species survival, and now he's just going to shoot an innocent person down? (And don't get me started on how ridiculous it is for Clara to be the one and only companion that he just couldn't stand to part with. He abandoned his own granddaughter on Earth, for chrissake. There was nothing special about Clara except the silliness involving her jumping into his timestream. I better not get started on that, either). *(I know, I know, when you're actually shooting someone you aim for the torso because hitting a foot would be pointlessly difficult; but then, according to Missy, the Doctor can move his wrist from waist level to above his head in two nanoseconds (Witch's familiar speech in the beginning). I haven't done the math, but I suspect that that 2-3 feet in two billions of a second is somewhere near the speed of light.) Death is just flu for a Time Lord. Not really cruel. It's potentially thousands of years of life. And now, the General is on her last life. We also don't know what it took for the Timelords to give the Doctor extra regenerations. Perhaps, someone even had to sacrifice themselves. So we cannot assume that the General was given another one to make up for it.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 26, 2017 19:42:22 GMT
Death is just flu for a Time Lord. Not really cruel. It's potentially thousands of years of life. And now, the General is on hisher last life. We also don't know what it took for the Timelords to give the Doctor extra regenerations. Perhaps, someone even had to sacrifice themselves. So we cannot assume that the General was given another one to make up for it. It would be interesting if The 12th Doctor is placed on trial for it in his final episode.
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Post by mrperson on Mar 26, 2017 20:21:46 GMT
It's potentially thousands of years of life. And now, the General is on hisher last life. We also don't know what it took for the Timelords to give the Doctor extra regenerations. Perhaps, someone even had to sacrifice themselves. So we cannot assume that the General was given another one to make up for it. It would be interesting if The 12th Doctor is placed on trial for it in his final episode. I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps that'll be his regeneration story.... eye for an eye - they extract one regeneration worth of juice from him and pump it into the General.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 3:52:13 GMT
*(I know, I know, when you're actually shooting someone you aim for the torso because hitting a foot would be pointlessly difficult; but then, according to Missy, the Doctor can move his wrist from waist level to above his head in two nanoseconds (Witch's familiar speech in the beginning). I haven't done the math, but I suspect that that 2-3 feet in two billions of a second is somewhere near the speed of light.) I have a theory, which I like because it gives the Doctor's character a unique contrast... He loathes using guns, but he has a remarkable natural talent for them all the same. Hence, why he's a dead shot in The Talons of Weng-Chiang, Revelation of the Daleks, etc. He's got the greatest skill for one of his most hated attributes of warring cultures. In another kind of story, a controversial action like this could really have worked, I can think of at least two right off the top of my head -- Lucifer Rising and Revolution Man. Here, it's not so much about the Doctor realising that he's been using others to avoid dirtying his own hands or that he's trying to spare a friend the weight of a man's murder, it's a weird moment of pop culture ("No one take a selfie!") and a man is shot dead on the spot. It doesn't really lead to anything because the Doctor forgets the whole affair anyway, he doesn't learn from it at all. Even if he did remember, what does this story really give us? A lacklustre depiction of Gallifrey (that desperately needs someone like Maxil who will just gun down the Doctor) and speculation from the Writer's Room. Adelaide Brooke's suicide in The Waters of Mars was an insanely powerful moment precisely because the Doctor is ultimately responsible for her death here in this timeline. For all his might and bluster, he is still powerless against an ordinary human woman who decides to take the greater web of history into her own hands and destroy her life. That's so much more poignant as a moment where he goes too far. Time fights back.
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Post by doctorkernow on Mar 28, 2017 11:28:47 GMT
Hello again. Yes.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Mar 28, 2017 13:27:45 GMT
The doctor was found in the desert by a tourist and dropped off at the cafe. As I said, he arrives at the cafe by car. While not a plothole, it was quite bizarre. I mean....why was he just going on a hitchhiking tour of America? Why ask to get dropped off at that particular cafe, in the middle of nowhere? Was he just wandering around trying to think over what happened to his memory and it was a spectacular coincidence that he arrived at that exact point in space-time? Given that he fell unconscious in the TARDIS and then we saw him waking up in the desert, the implication is that Clara and Me dropped him there, planning - again, an implication - to reunite him with his own TARDIS. It's not a perfect structure for a story and does rely heavily on coincidence but no more than many other stories (not just Doctor Who, either).
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Post by mrperson on Mar 28, 2017 15:42:10 GMT
While not a plothole, it was quite bizarre. I mean....why was he just going on a hitchhiking tour of America? Why ask to get dropped off at that particular cafe, in the middle of nowhere? Was he just wandering around trying to think over what happened to his memory and it was a spectacular coincidence that he arrived at that exact point in space-time? Given that he fell unconscious in the TARDIS and then we saw him waking up in the desert, the implication is that Clara and Me dropped him there, planning - again, an implication - to reunite him with his own TARDIS. It's not a perfect structure for a story and does rely heavily on coincidence but no more than many other stories (not just Doctor Who, either). Oh, right, he did pass out didn't he? I suppose yours is the most reasonable interpretation then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 21:51:35 GMT
Can anyone else see the Twelfth Doctor wandering the desert muttering to himself? I can.
"Wretched birds... OH, circling are you? Well, I can circle too! Yeah! Yeah, look at my perfect ratio! Dizzy... I suddenly feel rather tired..."
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