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Post by relativetime on Mar 23, 2017 10:07:26 GMT
Yeah, I think New Who should take some time off on making series long arcs, which I don't think has ever been pulled off perfectly, and instead focus more on character arcs. I'd love to have a pure historical story again. It's pretty much a given that the Daleks will turn up, so I'd just like to see a tense, frightening story for them to shine in. As for other returning villains, I want Missy to channel her inner Delgado for at least an episode or two, sort of like she was in Dark Water/Death in Heaven. Other than that, I want new monsters and new places and new characters. Out with the old and in with the new.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 11:06:13 GMT
If there's ever a pure historical now, Doctor Who will have its worst viewing figures in the new series ever.
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Post by relativetime on Mar 23, 2017 11:12:25 GMT
If there's ever a pure historical now, Doctor Who will have its worst viewing figures in the new series ever. I disagree. I think people look for episodes with good stories rather than for episodes that've got an alien in them. We also have no statistical evidence to suggest viewing figures would plummet if the show gave us a pure historical - it's just guesswork at this point.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 11:25:42 GMT
If there's ever a pure historical now, Doctor Who will have its worst viewing figures in the new series ever. I disagree. I think people look for episodes with good stories rather than for episodes that've got an alien in them. We also have no statistical evidence to suggest viewing figures would plummet if the show gave us a pure historical - it's just guesswork at this point. I think the fact that both RTD and Moffat opted not to do pure historicals show that they consider it an unpopular idea. Also: if you look at the classic series The Highlanders was the last historical for a while because viewers simply weren't interested. It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Mar 23, 2017 12:08:05 GMT
I disagree. I think people look for episodes with good stories rather than for episodes that've got an alien in them. We also have no statistical evidence to suggest viewing figures would plummet if the show gave us a pure historical - it's just guesswork at this point. I think the fact that both RTD and Moffat opted not to do pure historicals show that they consider it an unpopular idea. Also: if you look at the classic series The Highlanders was the last historical for a while because viewers simply weren't interested. It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical. For a show that involves time travel, its a shame. Especially, since there is no evidence that a purely historical episode wouldn't work. Would you rather have a historical episode, or Fear Her?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 12:09:00 GMT
I think the fact that both RTD and Moffat opted not to do pure historicals show that they consider it an unpopular idea. Also: if you look at the classic series The Highlanders was the last historical for a while because viewers simply weren't interested. It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical. For a show that involves time travel, its a shame. Especially, since there is no evidence that a purely historical episode wouldn't work. Would you rather have a historical episode, or Fear Her? Fear Her. I suspect kids and casual viewers would say the same.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 12:11:28 GMT
Luckily, fandom makes up only a fraction of Doctor Who's viewing figures. A good story is a good story, whether it is a historical or not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 12:16:42 GMT
I think the fact that both RTD and Moffat opted not to do pure historicals show that they consider it an unpopular idea. Also: if you look at the classic series The Highlanders was the last historical for a while because viewers simply weren't interested. It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical. For a show that involves time travel, its a shame. Especially, since there is no evidence that a purely historical episode wouldn't work. Would you rather have a historical episode, or Fear Her? I don't mind the ambition of a Fear Her if not the execution but - shock - I agree with you. There are enough fantastical events and places throughout history that wouldn't need a sci-fi element to make a compelling story. Just an odd historical wouldn't go amiss.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 12:39:32 GMT
For a show that involves time travel, its a shame. Especially, since there is no evidence that a purely historical episode wouldn't work. Would you rather have a historical episode, or Fear Her? I don't mind the ambition of a Fear Her if not the execution but - shock - I agree with you. There are enough fantastical events and places throughout history that wouldn't need a sci-fi element to make a compelling story. Just an odd historical wouldn't go amiss. Particularly given the BBC's extensive experience in that field. History in and of itself can be really interesting, you don't really need to stick another fantastical element on top of it.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 12:46:54 GMT
I don't mind the ambition of a Fear Her if not the execution but - shock - I agree with you. There are enough fantastical events and places throughout history that wouldn't need a sci-fi element to make a compelling story. Just an odd historical wouldn't go amiss. Particularly given the BBC's extensive experience in that field. History in and of itself can be really interesting, you don't really need to stick another fantastical element on top of it. You're forgetting that BBC historical documentaries and period dramas are aimed at a completely different audience though. Doctor Who is a working class family show, whereas period dramas and documentaries on history are very much aimed at an older, middle class group of people.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Mar 23, 2017 12:53:15 GMT
Particularly given the BBC's extensive experience in that field. History in and of itself can be really interesting, you don't really need to stick another fantastical element on top of it. You're forgetting that BBC historical documentaries and period dramas are aimed at a completely different audience though. Doctor Who is a working class family show, whereas period dramas and documentaries on history are very much aimed at an older, middle class group of people. Its only going to be ONE episode out of thirteen!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 12:57:29 GMT
You're forgetting that BBC historical documentaries and period dramas are aimed at a completely different audience though. Doctor Who is a working class family show, whereas period dramas and documentaries on history are very much aimed at an older, middle class group of people. Its only going to be ONE episode out of thirteen! True, but why would they actively set out to make an episode that they know isn't going to be as popular with the show's target audience as the others? The history of Doctor Who tells us that the 'Bug Eyed Monsters' are more popular than historicals.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Mar 23, 2017 13:01:23 GMT
Its only going to be ONE episode out of thirteen! True, but why would they actively set out to make an episode that they know isn't going to be as popular with the show's target audience as the others?The history of Doctor Who tells us that the 'Bug Eyed Monsters' are more popular than historicals. Says who?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 13:02:24 GMT
True, but why would they actively set out to make an episode that they know isn't going to be as popular with the show's target audience as the others?The history of Doctor Who tells us that the 'Bug Eyed Monsters' are more popular than historicals. Says who? Says the history of the show.
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Post by theotherjosh on Mar 23, 2017 13:02:43 GMT
I think we're at the point where the only way a pure historical could work is by subverting our expectations. The Doctor turns over every rock for the Daleks he’s certain are manipulating things behind the scenes, but the twist is that there are no aliens. It's just human history in all its messy, counterintuitive magnificence.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:07:13 GMT
Says the history of the show. Does it aye? Black Orchid got higher ratings than Earthshock and it's a - gasp - historical. In fact outside of Castrovalva, the debut of a new Doctor, Black Orchid got the highest ratings of Season 19. Be careful when quoting history, if you know little about it.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Mar 23, 2017 13:10:51 GMT
Says the history of the show. One purely historical episode isn't going to destroy the show. Just because there hasn't been a historical since The Highlander doesn't mean there should never be another historical. Fans on here would like one!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:12:26 GMT
I think we're at the point where the only way a pure historical could work is by subverting our expectations. The Doctor turns over every rock for the Daleks he’s certain are manipulating things behind the scenes, but the twist is that there are no aliens. It's just human history in all its messy, counterintuitive magnificence. *point* *point* That strikes me as a very sound way of reintroducing the format. Much like The Witch Hunters where the only alien threat is, erm, Susan really and she's a victim of rabid human paranoia.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 13:12:39 GMT
Says the history of the show. Does it aye? Black Orchid got higher ratings than Earthshock and it's a - gasp - historical. In fact outside of Castrovalva, the debut of a new Doctor, Black Orchid got the highest ratings of Season 19. Be careful when quoting history, if you know little about it. Look at the 60s. The Highlanders was the last historical for a long period of the show's hstory because they weren't as popular as the BEMs. Black Orchid was a serial at a time where the show was aimed mainly at fans and not the casual audience.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:17:39 GMT
Does it aye? Black Orchid got higher ratings than Earthshock and it's a - gasp - historical. In fact outside of Castrovalva, the debut of a new Doctor, Black Orchid got the highest ratings of Season 19. Be careful when quoting history, if you know little about it. Look at the 60s. The Highlanders was the last historical for a long period of the show's hstory because they weren't as popular as the BEMs. Black Orchid was a serial at a time where the show was aimed mainly at fans and not the casual audience. And yet you're saying, quite magnanymously, that most of fandom don't want a historical. Now you're saying - wrongly - that Series 19 of the classic series was aimed at fandom, which is why Black Orchid (a historical) was successful. It seems, eager as you are to disagree with everyone, you are now disagreeing with yourself. Why are you telling fans of the show - some of whom were around at the time of Series 19's broadcast - that it was aimed mainly at fans when it wasn't? You could argue that series 21, and Colin's initial series, was aimed at fans on the evidence of all the returning monsters - but even then, there were no more returning monsters than there are lined up for the forthcoming series.
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