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Post by relativetime on Mar 23, 2017 13:18:07 GMT
I think we're at the point where the only way a pure historical could work is by subverting our expectations. The Doctor turns over every rock for the Daleks he’s certain are manipulating things behind the scenes, but the twist is that there are no aliens. It's just human history in all its messy, counterintuitive magnificence. I don't think so. I think having the companion get caught up in events that could lead to their death would be dramatic enough to keep an audience. Sure, maybe throw in a line like, "it's been a while since it hasn't been Daleks" (but obviously better written) or something like that, and you're set. I really think most fans of the show would absolutely love an episode like that - not just us "hardcore" fans. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:19:03 GMT
Does it aye? Black Orchid got higher ratings than Earthshock and it's a - gasp - historical. In fact outside of Castrovalva, the debut of a new Doctor, Black Orchid got the highest ratings of Season 19. Be careful when quoting history, if you know little about it. Look at the 60s. The Highlanders was the last historical for a long period of the show's hstory because they weren't as popular as the BEMs. Black Orchid was a serial at a time where the show was aimed mainly at fans and not the casual audience. Drivel. Black Orchid got 10.1 million viewers. Higher than the vast majority of Hartnells, higher than any Troughtons, higher than most Pertwees and nearly double what Tom was getting in Series 18. But please - tell me again how this wasn't appealing to the casual audience - because they certainly tuned in. This is freely available info - that you always refuse to use it before forming an opinion is baffling. |
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Mar 23, 2017 13:19:22 GMT
The main thing I'd want, which I've heard we're getting, is a Writer's Room. In addition, more time to refine scripts. More communication between the writers, and their goals, to make stories that compliment each-other, and flow well through a single Series, be it episodic, with an arc, or just more cohesive, especially with the characterisation of Companions.
I'd like them to have more time to rework the scripts, to make them efficient and compelling, even if it means skipping a year, or getting less episodes per year. Honestly, I wouldn't mind getting 6 GREAT episodes that had more time and thought put into them, as opposed 12 OK episodes that were rushed to dead-line.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:23:13 GMT
The main thing I'd want, which I've heard we're getting, is a Writer's Room. In addition, more time to refine scripts. More communication between the writers, and their goals, to make stories that compliment each-other, and flow well through a single Series, be it episodic, with an arc, or just more cohesive, especially with the characterisation of Companions. I'd like them to have more time to rework the scripts, to make them efficient and compelling, even if it means skipping a year, or getting less episodes per year. Honestly, I wouldn't mind getting 6 GREAT episodes that had more time and thought put into them, as opposed 12 OK episodes that were rushed to dead-line. I agree with you about the Writer's Room. Apart from anything else, hopefully it would free some of the burden from the showrunner. As you say, cohesion within a series is a good thing. There's little worse than following the developments of a story arc, only to have little or no pay-off. If true, I very much welcome this plan. |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 13:29:22 GMT
Look at the 60s. The Highlanders was the last historical for a long period of the show's hstory because they weren't as popular as the BEMs. Black Orchid was a serial at a time where the show was aimed mainly at fans and not the casual audience. And yet you're saying, quite magnanymously, that most of fandom don't want a historical. I never said that, I said casual viewers and kids won't want it. It's common knowledge that JNT aimed the show at fans. It even says so in the latest Doctor Who - The Complete History covering The Leisure Hive, Meglos and Full Circle. |
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Mar 23, 2017 13:47:48 GMT
Says the history of the show. Is this the same reasoning being used to cast, or not cast,a woman or black person as the Doctor? |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 13:54:38 GMT
Says the history of the show. Is this the same reasoning being used to cast, or not cast,a woman or black person as the Doctor? No, because there's no way of comparing the casting of a woman or black Doctor with the show's history. |
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Mar 23, 2017 13:56:26 GMT
And yet you're saying, quite magnanymously, that most of fandom don't want a historical. I never said that, I said casual viewers and kids won't want it. It's common knowledge that JNT aimed the show at fans. It even says so in the latest Doctor Who - The Complete History covering The Leisure Hive, Meglos and Full Circle. No, that's a simplistic reduction of what was said and of what was the case, totally failing to grasp any sense of proportion or nuance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:57:26 GMT
And yet you're saying, quite magnanymously, that most of fandom don't want a historical. I never said that, I said casual viewers and kids won't want it. Yes you did. You said this, and I quote: 'It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical.' |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 14:00:25 GMT
I never said that, I said casual viewers and kids won't want it. Yes you did. You said this, and I quote: 'It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical.' |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 14:01:41 GMT
It's common knowledge that JNT aimed the show at fans. It even says so in the latest Doctor Who - The Complete History covering The Leisure Hive, Meglos and Full Circle. No it's not common knowledge at all. It is your opinion. JNT produced the show for ten years, and only after the success of the returning Master from series 18 and The Cybermen from series 19 did he begin to cater more for the fans than the casual viewer. Again I say, a number of posters here were around during this time. You were not. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 14:03:48 GMT
Yes you did. You said this, and I quote: 'It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical.' No it wouldn't. Doctor Who is made for the general viewer. They are the ones who make up the vast majority of the ratings. Both RTD and Moffat have continually said this. Why would a historical be made for the fans if, as you say, 'only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical?' You are contradicting yourself. |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 14:04:44 GMT
Which is true, because not all fans want it (I certainly don't - I'd rather the show continued using the more successful formula of a historical setting + monster) - but if a pure historical is made, it would be with fans in mind. No it wouldn't. Doctor Who is made for the general viewer. They are the ones who make up the vast majority of the ratings. Both RTD and Moffat have continually said this. Why would a historical be made for the fans if, as you say, 'only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical?' You are contradicting yourself. Because it's only the fans who are asking for it! |
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Mar 23, 2017 14:09:57 GMT
No it wouldn't. Doctor Who is made for the general viewer. They are the ones who make up the vast majority of the ratings. Both RTD and Moffat have continually said this. Why would a historical be made for the fans if, as you say, 'only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical?' You are contradicting yourself. Because it's only the fans who are asking for it! Would a casual viewer switch off because it was purely historical? They'd have to tune in first! |
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Mar 23, 2017 14:09:58 GMT
No it wouldn't. Doctor Who is made for the general viewer. They are the ones who make up the vast majority of the ratings. Both RTD and Moffat have continually said this. Why would a historical be made for the fans if, as you say, 'only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical?' You are contradicting yourself. Because it's only the fans who are asking for it! It's only the fans who ask for ANYTHING!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 14:10:34 GMT
No it wouldn't. Doctor Who is made for the general viewer. They are the ones who make up the vast majority of the ratings. Both RTD and Moffat have continually said this. Why would a historical be made for the fans if, as you say, 'only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical?' You are contradicting yourself. Because it's only the fans who are asking for it! As if that makes a difference! |
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Mar 23, 2017 14:10:51 GMT
Yes you did. You said this, and I quote: 'It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical.' So you did say that thing that you've just said you never said. |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 14:17:06 GMT
Because it's only the fans who are asking for it! Would a casual viewer switch off because it was purely historical? They'd have to tune in first! Kids definitely would, and they make up a big part of the show's audience. |
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Mar 23, 2017 14:23:33 GMT
Would a casual viewer switch off because it was purely historical? They'd have to tune in first! Kids definitely would, and they make up a big part of the show's audience. Thats sheer presumption! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 14:24:31 GMT
Would a casual viewer switch off because it was purely historical? They'd have to tune in first! Kids definitely would, and they make up a big part of the show's audience. You seem to credit 'kids' with very little intelligence. |
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