bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Mar 23, 2017 14:31:25 GMT
Kids definitely would, and they make up a big part of the show's audience. You seem to credit 'kids' with very little intelligence. And seem to think that the only type of adventure stories children like is ones with monsters - so no Famous Five, no Young Bond, no spy stories, no kidnap stories, ...
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 23, 2017 15:11:34 GMT
If there's ever a pure historical now, Doctor Who will have its worst viewing figures in the new series ever. Give us a "Saving Private Ryan" type episode, done right, with a graphic battle scene, and make it a story where 1 human died who wasn't supposed too, who was destined to change the world, and the doctor has to break the law of time to save millions, and millions would watch it. It's no worse than the videa games kids are playing now.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 23, 2017 15:19:39 GMT
Is this the same reasoning being used to cast, or not cast,a woman or black person as the Doctor? No, because there's no way of comparing the casting of a woman or black Doctor with the show's history. why not? Never in the history of the show has there been a black or female doctor.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 15:20:45 GMT
No, because there's no way of comparing the casting of a woman or black Doctor with the show's history. why not? Never in the history of the show has there been a black or female doctor. That's why it's not comparable.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Mar 23, 2017 15:22:28 GMT
I have looked over the comments made in this thread and would like to remind people to be respectful of views other than their own. Over the past page things are getting to the point where the tone is beginning to become combative. Agree to disagree on those points where there is clearly no common ground and keep the discussion flowing.
Thanks!
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 23, 2017 15:23:26 GMT
Yes you did. You said this, and I quote: 'It's only certain sections of fandom who want a pure historical.' Which is true, because not all fans want it (I certainly don't - I'd rather the show continued using the more successful formula of a historical setting + monster) - but if a pure historical is made, it would be with fans in mind.I'd argue that Farewell Great Mastadon (know I misspelled that) is one of the greatest audios bf has ever produced, a classic actually, and I don't remember a monster.
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Post by mrperson on Mar 23, 2017 15:31:09 GMT
I hope that they start trying out some proper historicals once in a while, like BF. No chance of that. It wouldn't work in the new series. If you're going to say stuff like that, you need to back it up with figures. You pointed to The Hilanders, but the counterpunch was Black Orchid. The rest is just your personal opinion about what viewers-in-general want, and I don't see how that gets elevated to the level of a factual statement. It's an opinion. I'd also note that if you look here.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_serials#Second_Doctor...you will see that (1) The Highlander's were on the lower end of the ratings through that season, and (2) all episodes are lost. I haven't tracked down any audio-only CDs, but it might just be that it wasn't such a great episode, not that viewers suddenly decided to hate a historical (after so many from the 1st Doctor, I may note) Besides, this is a thread about what each of us thinks should happen, which is usually just another way of saying what each of us wants to happen.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 23, 2017 15:32:49 GMT
why not? Never in the history of the show has there been a black or female doctor. That's why it's not comparable. and there has not been a purely historical since Black Orcid that didn't have a monster, and it's bout the best televised story from 5s era. Yet in the new series we've seen timeliness regenerate male to female, but still aim the show at kids. BBC needs to realize, the fan base has grown up.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 15:33:35 GMT
Look at something like Indiana Jones, it flirted with the occult but the real baddies? Nazis or Thugees. And, believe me, every kid I grew up with loved Indiana Jones. Adventure, fun, OTT villains....yet it didn't need monsters. Until number 4 but we don't talk about that.
Look at one of the biggest franchises of the past decade, The Hunger Games. The villains are just humans but the teen audience identified with the hero and her struggle.
Audiences just want good stories. Sure, the monster will be there most of the time but to dismiss the idea that they'll turn off if they don't get one? I just don't buy it. Imagine something like - purely spit-balling - The Doctor being held prisoner by the Stasi with the companion stranded in wartorn Germany...that would be more monstrous than a dozen Slitheen or Judoon.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 15:42:44 GMT
It really wouldn't. Nazis were evil but not as evil as The Daleks.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 23, 2017 15:48:02 GMT
Look at something like Indiana Jones, it flirted with the occult but the real baddies? Nazis or Thugees. And, believe me, every kid I grew up with loved Indiana Jones. Adventure, fun, OTT villains....yet it didn't need monsters. Until number 4 but we don't talk about that. WHY did you have to remind me of that movie? Did I get up and pee in your Wheaties this morning? Have some respect, dag nabit. First movie that ever really made me cry, I mean cry, like a friend had died, man that was bad...
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Post by doomlord on Mar 23, 2017 15:50:26 GMT
Cause the younger generation doesn't know life existed before cellphones and the internet. It's not that, just that the pace would be too slow to keep a modern audience's attention span. That's why you always have a monster in historical settings now. You're letting your own dislike of period dramas cloud what others think. Not everyone is the same as you. When will you get this? Just because something is set before your D.O.B. doesn't mean that the pace would be too slow. You also underestimate the intelligence of the viewing public. For someone that wants to work in television or write fan-fiction, you have a very limited and narrow view.
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Post by mark687 on Mar 23, 2017 15:53:39 GMT
It really wouldn't. Nazis were evil but not as evil as The Daleks. WRONG Daleks Aren't Real The Nazi Party and the Horrors they committed were!
Regards
mark687
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 23, 2017 15:54:03 GMT
It really wouldn't. Nazis were evil but not as evil as The Daleks. OK, I give you a lot of rope, but your bout to hang yourself. The Nazi's were real, they weren't figments of your imagination. They killed millions of people, the daleks have killed 0. You said earlier in this thread, that you are not a child, and I'm not trying to be mean, but are you sure? Cause that was bout the most childish comment I have ever read on this forum, and I have to take it like a child said it, cause if an adult said it, then they have no actual grasp on reality, and should probably see somebody bout their mental health. I understand you have autism, and I give you lots of leeway, but millions of people worked their asses off, many giving their lives, to fight the evil of the Nazi's, far as I know, no one has ever died fighting a dalek.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 15:58:41 GMT
It really wouldn't. Nazis were evil but not as evil as The Daleks. OK, I give you a lot of rope, but your bout to hang yourself. The Nazi's were real, they weren't figments of your imagination. They killed millions of people, the daleks have killed 0. You said earlier in this thread, that you are not a child, and I'm not trying to be mean, but are you sure? Cause that was bout the most childish comment I have ever read on this forum, and I have to take it like a child said it, cause if an adult said it, then they have no actual grasp on reality, and should probably see somebody bout their mental health. I understand you have autism, and I give you lots of leeway, but millions of people worked their asses off, many giving their lives, to fight the evil of the Nazi's, far as I know, no one has ever died fighting a dalek. I'm talking from an in-universe point of view, not real life.
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Post by mark687 on Mar 23, 2017 16:04:40 GMT
OK, I give you a lot of rope, but your bout to hang yourself. The Nazi's were real, they weren't figments of your imagination. They killed millions of people, the daleks have killed 0. You said earlier in this thread, that you are not a child, and I'm not trying to be mean, but are you sure? Cause that was bout the most childish comment I have ever read on this forum, and I have to take it like a child said it, cause if an adult said it, then they have no actual grasp on reality, and should probably see somebody bout their mental health. I understand you have autism, and I give you lots of leeway, but millions of people worked their asses off, many giving their lives, to fight the evil of the Nazi's, far as I know, no one has ever died fighting a dalek. I'm talking from an in-universe point of view, not real life. Even if your talking solely in Show universe terms they're just as Bad, their ideology is one of the worst the Human Race has ever produced!
Regards
mark687
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 16:07:41 GMT
It really wouldn't. Nazis were evil but not as evil as The Daleks. I've got 4 family members who never came home from fighting against fascism and we spent 2 years researching and using holidays trying to find my great-uncles grave in France. Many of us will have similar family history. So, I think I'd disagree. And even if your point were true...still doesn't account for generations not so very long ago thinking Nazis were the ultimate bad-guys for something like Indiana Jones, as was the example I gave. I'm not sure the culture has changed since the 80s and 90s when Indy was a huge deal. If anything, culture is massively nostalgic for that era now. I know you said you have no interest in history yesterday when I spoke of the Spanish Legion lost in Scotland in the 2nd century, but I'd certainly recommend watching Nazis: A Warning From History, Shoah, The Sorrow And The Pity and World At War to you, before being able to speak to the extent of the evils of Nazi-ism.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Mar 23, 2017 16:09:14 GMT
It really wouldn't. Nazis were evil but not as evil as The Daleks. Let me tell you the difference between the Daleks and the Nazi's. Daleks don't torture, they don't make you sit there and watch your family go to the gas chamber and die horribly, then bury your own parents or children, they just exterminate. They don't play games with your mind, they just kill you. Humans are capable of far more evil than Daleks could ever think about being. If you learn one thing today, then remember that. There are reasons why you have never seen a real Nazi story on Doctor Who, because if they actually showed one, then kids would be having nightmares, and grown men and women would be throwing up, actually sickened by the atrocities which were just shown on a beloved tv program. Doctor Who cannot capture the horror of the Nazi's, the wilderness years novels, couldn't capture it, cause we cant even bring ourselves to write bout it, much less try to show it on tv, the closest we can get is some documentaries, and they are toned down, otherwise people would be getting sick just watching them.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 23, 2017 16:10:11 GMT
I'm talking from an in-universe point of view, not real life. Even if your talking solely in Show universe terms they're just as Bad, their ideology is one of the worst the Human Race has ever produced!
Regards
mark687
They are the worst HUMAN thing to happen to humanity in-universe but the Daleks are so bad they are worse than the Nazis. That's what makes them so scary.
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Post by mark687 on Mar 23, 2017 16:26:28 GMT
Even if your talking solely in Show universe terms they're just as Bad, their ideology is one of the worst the Human Race has ever produced!
Regards
mark687
They are the worst HUMAN thing to happen to humanity in-universe but the Daleks are so bad they are worse than the Nazis. That's what makes them so scary. I can't even begin to comment on the point I think your trying to make without probably offending or distressing people!
But as others have said read some history
Regards
mark687
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