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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 23:42:40 GMT
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed. I think you missed the point of why they did it and why there's a whole selection of similar programmes on at the moment.
As David says you have a somewhat utopian view on it and society in genereal.
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mark687
No, I'm an optimist. I feel too often that people moan about everything and think we're doomed. But we're not. Humanity will always flourish.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 28, 2017 23:51:12 GMT
So highlighting something as all inclusive is actually divisive in your opinion?
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mark687
No. The video seems to be making a big deal out of how LGBTQ like the show. My question is: so what? Who cares? Why make a video on this? Why makes LGBTQ people diffferent from anyone else? Should they do a version with this with just white people and make a big deal of it? NO! They're making a video because it's the 50 anniversary of homosexuality being partially legalised. It's an anniversary worth marking and why shouldn't the Fan Show do so. As for who cares, dare I suggest you care a fair bit given you've sparked two pages of debate on this subject.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 23:53:26 GMT
No. The video seems to be making a big deal out of how LGBTQ like the show. My question is: so what? Who cares? Why make a video on this? Why makes LGBTQ people diffferent from anyone else? Should they do a version with this with just white people and make a big deal of it? NO! They're making a video because it's the 50 anniversary of homosexuality being partially legalised. It's an anniversary worth marking and why shouldn't the Fan Show do so. As for who cares, dare I suggest you care a fair bit given you've sparked two pages of debate on this subject. My annoyance is more how the video is treating the LGBTQ people as if they're different. As said previously, we're all the same.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 28, 2017 23:59:25 GMT
Well, that's just all kinds of insulting right there. I don't think you meant it like it reads but... Coming out is not some form of self segregation, it's asserting your identity as a person in the face of the historical default cis heterosexual narrative. It's at the very least an attempt to be happy in your own skin. And seeing representatives of who and what you are in something like Who is important, and as has been pointed out the seeming asexuality of earlier Who was helpful, in that while you might not have been visibly represented you weren't turned away and left in the cold. Breed? If you mean finding those of like mind who share what you do, then perhaps yes. What I meant by breed is that they're treating them as if they're different, but they're not. They're not a breed. They're just simple human beings like the rest of us. This thing here makes out as if gay people have specific preferences because they're gay, but that isn't at all true. Gay people can't be stereotyped. No group of people can ever be stereotyped. It seems that our stumbling block here, or one of them, is the interpretation of difference. They ARE different. But that's fine, that's normal, that's how life is. Simple human beings like the rest of us? Exactly right. But LGBTQ people do have specific preferences because they're LGBTQ, and a lot of others that overlap with the preferences of those who aren't LGBTQ, and acceptance of difference is important, not tolerance, acceptance.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 0:00:40 GMT
What I meant by breed is that they're treating them as if they're different, but they're not. They're not a breed. They're just simple human beings like the rest of us. This thing here makes out as if gay people have specific preferences because they're gay, but that isn't at all true. Gay people can't be stereotyped. No group of people can ever be stereotyped. It seems that our stumbling block here, or one of them, is the interpretation of difference. They ARE different. But that's fine, that's normal, that's how life is. Simple human beings like the rest of us? Exactly right. But LGBTQ people do have specific preferences because they're LGBTQ, and a lot of others that overlap with the preferences of those who aren't LGBTQ, and acceptance of difference is important, not tolerance, acceptance. So you're saying that LGBTQ people have more preferences than just preferring different genders than just the opposite sex. I can't lie. That's a tad homophobic, but whatever.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 29, 2017 0:02:12 GMT
It seems that our stumbling block here, or one of them, is the interpretation of difference. They ARE different. But that's fine, that's normal, that's how life is. Simple human beings like the rest of us? Exactly right. But LGBTQ people do have specific preferences because they're LGBTQ, and a lot of others that overlap with the preferences of those who aren't LGBTQ, and acceptance of difference is important, not tolerance, acceptance. So you're saying that LGBTQ people have more preferences than just preferring different genders than just the opposite sex. I can't lie. That's a tad homophobic, but whatever. How did you get that from my statement? Explain that to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 0:03:26 GMT
So you're saying that LGBTQ people have more preferences than just preferring different genders than just the opposite sex. I can't lie. That's a tad homophobic, but whatever. How did you get that from my statement? Explain that to me. "But LGBTQ people do have specific preferences because they're LGBTQ"
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 29, 2017 0:26:33 GMT
How did you get that from my statement? Explain that to me. "But LGBTQ people do have specific preferences because they're LGBTQ" Yes, I said that. And they do, and I as a cis heterosexual man have specific preferences because I'm a cis heterosexual man, but you said "So you're saying that LGBTQ people have more preferences than just preferring different genders than just the opposite sex. I can't lie. That's a tad homophobic, but whatever." And I didn't say "more" preferences, that's your misreading of my statements.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 0:27:47 GMT
"But LGBTQ people do have specific preferences because they're LGBTQ" Yes, I said that. And they do, and I as a cis heterosexual man have specific preferences because I'm a cis heterosexual man, but you said "So you're saying that LGBTQ people have more preferences than just preferring different genders than just the opposite sex. I can't lie. That's a tad homophobic, but whatever." And I didn't say "more" preferences, that's your misreading of my statements. You said preferences - the plural.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 29, 2017 0:35:21 GMT
Yes, I said that. And they do, and I as a cis heterosexual man have specific preferences because I'm a cis heterosexual man, but you said "So you're saying that LGBTQ people have more preferences than just preferring different genders than just the opposite sex. I can't lie. That's a tad homophobic, but whatever." And I didn't say "more" preferences, that's your misreading of my statements. You said preferences - the plural. And? LGBTQ people do have preferences, plural, because at its simplest LGBTQ is an umbrella label. They, like everyone else, also have the option of not exercising any or all of those preferences. Explain how this is homophobic again?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 29, 2017 1:06:40 GMT
You said preferences - the plural. And? LGBTQ people do have preferences, plural, because at its simplest LGBTQ is an umbrella label. They, like everyone else, also have the option of not exercising any or all of those preferences. Explain how this is homophobic again? I'm honestly having trouble seeing where your remarks could be considered homophobic as well.
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Post by kimalysong on Jul 29, 2017 1:10:13 GMT
Removed a bunch of posts. Please stop the personal Back & Forth arguments
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 29, 2017 1:21:02 GMT
Because it was being made by, watched and valued by people at a time where being who they were was illegal and supposedly highlighting how far society's come since.
Regards
mark687
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed. Putting your poorly-phrased statement into the context I'm hoping you mean, why are you complaining about people watching a show you have claimed is losing viewers for the last couple of seasons? I mean, you've been saying that the sky is falling on the ratings and here's a bunch of people who claim that the show offers some kind of meaning and gives them enjoyment - I'd've thought you'd be pleased about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 10:57:16 GMT
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed. Putting your poorly-phrased statement into the context I'm hoping you mean, why are you complaining about people watching a show you have claimed is losing viewers for the last couple of seasons? I mean, you've been saying that the sky is falling on the ratings and here's a bunch of people who claim that the show offers some kind of meaning and gives them enjoyment - I'd've thought you'd be pleased about that. No. What I don't like is the idea that gay people specifically like the show it's for everyone. And yeah - the sky is falling on the ratings.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 11:20:08 GMT
Putting your poorly-phrased statement into the context I'm hoping you mean, why are you complaining about people watching a show you have claimed is losing viewers for the last couple of seasons? I mean, you've been saying that the sky is falling on the ratings and here's a bunch of people who claim that the show offers some kind of meaning and gives them enjoyment - I'd've thought you'd be pleased about that. No. What I don't like is the idea that gay people specifically like the show it's for everyone. And yeah - the sky is falling on the ratings. It's hard to even see where you're getting that from apart from willfully misreading things to inform your criticisms. It's not saying the show is for gay people specifically, just that there's a gay following. If this is news to you, I'd be surprised as it's far from a new development. Again, what does it matter to you when you've said numerous times "who cares?". If you don't - move on. Otherwise you're looking like you care a great deal. Celebrating 50 years of a milestone in gay rights...why is this a problem for you? It's an online fan-vid. Would you rather they just do facile "10 Favourite Dalek stories"? There's a million vids like that. Enjoy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 11:23:38 GMT
No. What I don't like is the idea that gay people specifically like the show it's for everyone. And yeah - the sky is falling on the ratings. It's hard to even see where you're getting that from apart from willfully misreading things to inform your criticisms. It's not saying the show is for gay people specifically, just that there's a gay following. If this is news to you, I'd be surprised as it's far from a new development. Again, what does it matter to you when you've said numerous times "who cares?". If you don't - move on. Otherwise you're looking like you care a great deal. Celebrating 50 years of a milestone in gay rights...why is this a problem for you? It's an online fan-vid. Would you rather they just do facile "10 Favourite Dalek stories"? There's a million vids like that. Enjoy. Not you. I meant the video. And from a technical standpoint it's not a fan video because it's made by the BBC.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 29, 2017 11:45:52 GMT
Putting your poorly-phrased statement into the context I'm hoping you mean, why are you complaining about people watching a show you have claimed is losing viewers for the last couple of seasons? I mean, you've been saying that the sky is falling on the ratings and here's a bunch of people who claim that the show offers some kind of meaning and gives them enjoyment - I'd've thought you'd be pleased about that. No. What I don't like is the idea that gay people specifically like the show it's for everyone. And yeah - the sky is falling on the ratings. (My bolding) I'm guessing that you don't like the idea that this video is highlighting the huge following the show has among the gay community. A following it has had for several decades now and which one of the speakers (Benjamin Cook, I think) says in the first two minutes puts them in a group with nearly everybody else who loves the show. I don't think the emphasis is on the fact that it's a show specifically for gay people, just that the gay community has a vocal set of fans for whom the show has some personal relevance. They aren't claiming the show as their's alone nor are they saying that it's got a homosexual agenda, just that a lot of them really like it and identify with the themes shown in particular stories and characters. It's still a show for everyone, it's just that some fans are from demographics that aren't you or me. And given that the show was commissioned by a Canadian, first produced by a woman, with a first story directed by a gay Indian man and starred a cast with a thirty-year gap in ages that was meant to appeal to all elements of the family, I think that's fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 12:11:05 GMT
No. What I don't like is the idea that gay people specifically like the show it's for everyone. And yeah - the sky is falling on the ratings. (My bolding) I'm guessing that you don't like the idea that this video is highlighting the huge following the show has among the gay community. A following it has had for several decades now and which one of the speakers (Benjamin Cook, I think) says in the first two minutes puts them in a group with nearly everybody else who loves the show. I don't think the emphasis is on the fact that it's a show specifically for gay people, just that the gay community has a vocal set of fans for whom the show has some personal relevance. They aren't claiming the show as their's alone nor are they saying that it's got a homosexual agenda, just that a lot of them really like it and identify with the themes shown in particular stories and characters. It's still a show for everyone, it's just that some fans are from demographics that aren't you or me. And given that the show was commissioned by a Canadian, first produced by a woman, with a first story directed by a gay Indian man and starred a cast with a thirty-year gap in ages that was meant to appeal to all elements of the family, I think that's fine. My point is what would people say if they did a type of video that was saying how heterosexuals like the show. Surely, you'd criticize it, then.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 29, 2017 12:21:48 GMT
(My bolding) I'm guessing that you don't like the idea that this video is highlighting the huge following the show has among the gay community. A following it has had for several decades now and which one of the speakers (Benjamin Cook, I think) says in the first two minutes puts them in a group with nearly everybody else who loves the show. I don't think the emphasis is on the fact that it's a show specifically for gay people, just that the gay community has a vocal set of fans for whom the show has some personal relevance. They aren't claiming the show as their's alone nor are they saying that it's got a homosexual agenda, just that a lot of them really like it and identify with the themes shown in particular stories and characters. It's still a show for everyone, it's just that some fans are from demographics that aren't you or me. And given that the show was commissioned by a Canadian, first produced by a woman, with a first story directed by a gay Indian man and starred a cast with a thirty-year gap in ages that was meant to appeal to all elements of the family, I think that's fine. My point is what would people say if they did a type of video that was saying how heterosexuals like the show. Surely, you'd criticize it, then. Same reason no one needs a straight pride march. You've already acknowledged that despite equality in the law, socially we're nowhere near where we need to be, so why are you still having this discussion?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 12:25:04 GMT
(My bolding) I'm guessing that you don't like the idea that this video is highlighting the huge following the show has among the gay community. A following it has had for several decades now and which one of the speakers (Benjamin Cook, I think) says in the first two minutes puts them in a group with nearly everybody else who loves the show. I don't think the emphasis is on the fact that it's a show specifically for gay people, just that the gay community has a vocal set of fans for whom the show has some personal relevance. They aren't claiming the show as their's alone nor are they saying that it's got a homosexual agenda, just that a lot of them really like it and identify with the themes shown in particular stories and characters. It's still a show for everyone, it's just that some fans are from demographics that aren't you or me. And given that the show was commissioned by a Canadian, first produced by a woman, with a first story directed by a gay Indian man and starred a cast with a thirty-year gap in ages that was meant to appeal to all elements of the family, I think that's fine. My point is what would people say if they did a type of video that was saying how heterosexuals like the show. Surely, you'd criticize it, then. Either you don't understand the concept of representation, you're against it or you're looking for a rise out of people. This is like those "Why can't we have Straight Pride?" moronic arguments - because it was never illegal to be out and proud hetero. There's no story in being part of the societal status quo. I don't get what's so difficult for you here. Since the Fan-Show represents fans en masse, why can't you see they're exploring one sub-section of fans to co-incide with a landmark anniversary. There was a Doctor Who confidential that explored the show's international fans - that one video didn't mean the series was suddenly just for them did it? No.
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