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Post by mark687 on Jul 28, 2017 20:18:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 21:14:16 GMT
I disagree with the idea of these types of videos, due to, in my opinion, causing further divisions by stating that LGBTQ people are special or something, when they're just ordinary like everyone else. This video pretty much sums up my thoughts - www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRnTovm26I4
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 21:44:25 GMT
I disagree with the idea of these types of videos, due to, in my opinion, causing further divisions by stating that LGBTQ people are special or something, when they're just ordinary like everyone else. This video pretty much sums up my thoughts - www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRnTovm26I4Equality doesn't happen on its own though, does it? Women would never have got the vote without the Suffragists. I get completely where you're coming from in the whole "it shouldn't need to matter" point of view if somebody is gay or straight, but inequality and discrimination doesn't end because the majority of people wake up one day with moral decency and decide that it should. All progressive steps need action to be taken so awareness is spread- that's how you start to change attitudes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 22:09:23 GMT
I disagree with the idea of these types of videos, due to, in my opinion, causing further divisions by stating that LGBTQ people are special or something, when they're just ordinary like everyone else. This video pretty much sums up my thoughts - www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRnTovm26I4Equality doesn't happen on its own though, does it? Women would never have got the vote without the Suffragists. I get completely where you're coming from in the whole "it shouldn't need to matter" point of view if somebody is gay or straight, but inequality and discrimination doesn't end because the majority of people wake up one day with moral decency and decide that it should. All progressive steps need action to be taken so awareness is spread- that's how you start to change attitudes. No, that's from a lawful perspective. In terms of the law, we are an equal society. It's hard to dispute that. Many people, though, would say that socially there is inequality. The only way to stop social inequality is thinking of white people as people, black people as people, gay people as people, straight people as people. Don't make there seem to be anything special or different about them. Carry on with everyday life and just be happy. It's why I disagree with this video which makes it seem as if people who are gay are some different breed or something. We're all just people at the end of the day. They're nothing more, nothing less than any non-gay person.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 28, 2017 22:21:39 GMT
Equality doesn't happen on its own though, does it? Women would never have got the vote without the Suffragists. I get completely where you're coming from in the whole "it shouldn't need to matter" point of view if somebody is gay or straight, but inequality and discrimination doesn't end because the majority of people wake up one day with moral decency and decide that it should. All progressive steps need action to be taken so awareness is spread- that's how you start to change attitudes. No, that's from a lawful perspective. In terms of the law, we are an equal society. It's hard to dispute that. Many people, though, would say that socially there is inequality. The only way to stop social inequality is thinking of white people as people, black people as people, gay people as people, straight people as people. Don't make there seem to be anything special or different about them. Carry on with everyday life and just be happy. It's why I disagree with this video which makes it seem as if people who are gay are some different breed or something. We're all just people at the end of the day. They're nothing more, nothing less than any non-gay person. So highlighting something as all inclusive is actually divisive in your opinion?
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 22:28:09 GMT
Equality doesn't happen on its own though, does it? Women would never have got the vote without the Suffragists. I get completely where you're coming from in the whole "it shouldn't need to matter" point of view if somebody is gay or straight, but inequality and discrimination doesn't end because the majority of people wake up one day with moral decency and decide that it should. All progressive steps need action to be taken so awareness is spread- that's how you start to change attitudes. No, that's from a lawful perspective. In terms of the law, we are an equal society. It's hard to dispute that. Many people, though, would say that socially there is inequality. The only way to stop social inequality is thinking of white people as people, black people as people, gay people as people, straight people as people. Don't make there seem to be anything special or different about them. Carry on with everyday life and just be happy. It's why I disagree with this video which makes it seem as if people who are gay are some different breed or something. We're all just people at the end of the day. They're nothing more, nothing less than any non-gay person. If we lived in utopia I'd agree with nearly every word but having been called names and attacked growing up for my sexuality, I think you're doing what the majority will and tell the minority how they should feel. No-one ever gets spat at for being straight. No-one calls you names just because you're straight. There's no straight stereotypes mocking you.Society is built on the idea that straight is the ideal and the norm. If you've never had to go through growing up with day to day battles just to be who you are, forgive me if I don't think you're 100% qualified to speak on the matter with authority or definition. "Pride" is a damn apt name.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 22:40:28 GMT
Equality doesn't happen on its own though, does it? Women would never have got the vote without the Suffragists. I get completely where you're coming from in the whole "it shouldn't need to matter" point of view if somebody is gay or straight, but inequality and discrimination doesn't end because the majority of people wake up one day with moral decency and decide that it should. All progressive steps need action to be taken so awareness is spread- that's how you start to change attitudes. No, that's from a lawful perspective. In terms of the law, we are an equal society. It's hard to dispute that. Many people, though, would say that socially there is inequality. The only way to stop social inequality is thinking of white people as people, black people as people, gay people as people, straight people as people. Don't make there seem to be anything special or different about them. Carry on with everyday life and just be happy. It's why I disagree with this video which makes it seem as if people who are gay are some different breed or something. We're all just people at the end of the day. They're nothing more, nothing less than any non-gay person. I am not talking a shot or trying to mock you when I write this but that is a mind numbingly simplistic thing to say. Of course we are all just people but the fact remains there are some sections of society where some people are more equal than others. And I don't know about specific laws in the UK but in the US there is a distinct inequality in how gay & trans people are treated under the law. Hell we saw it yesterday with Trump's ban of trans Americans in the military. If things were as you insist them to be, then the needs of groups and videos such as the one you posted would not be needed. It is like when people say all lives matter to black lives matter activists. Of course all lives matter but when you dig into the numbers of black deaths at the hands of police, the levels if incarceration for black Americans versus white Americans and all down the line you see a huge disparity. Completely not equal. Anyway, again I am not insulting you but I do think your comments reflect a world of how you would like it to be or how you see it from your vantage point and not the reality of how life is for others or how the world really is specifically for them.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 22:45:56 GMT
53 years and how many gay characters in Doctor Who? Precious few. How many non-white characters? As David notes, if the world were as you describe, I too would agree with you 100% but that isn't the real world. Again, from the US perspective, things are getting worse not better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 22:55:36 GMT
No, that's from a lawful perspective. In terms of the law, we are an equal society. It's hard to dispute that. Many people, though, would say that socially there is inequality. The only way to stop social inequality is thinking of white people as people, black people as people, gay people as people, straight people as people. Don't make there seem to be anything special or different about them. Carry on with everyday life and just be happy. It's why I disagree with this video which makes it seem as if people who are gay are some different breed or something. We're all just people at the end of the day. They're nothing more, nothing less than any non-gay person. So highlighting something as all inclusive is actually divisive in your opinion?
Regards
mark687
No. The video seems to be making a big deal out of how LGBTQ like the show. My question is: so what? Who cares? Why make a video on this? Why makes LGBTQ people diffferent from anyone else? Should they do a version with this with just white people and make a big deal of it? NO!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 22:58:02 GMT
No, that's from a lawful perspective. In terms of the law, we are an equal society. It's hard to dispute that. Many people, though, would say that socially there is inequality. The only way to stop social inequality is thinking of white people as people, black people as people, gay people as people, straight people as people. Don't make there seem to be anything special or different about them. Carry on with everyday life and just be happy. It's why I disagree with this video which makes it seem as if people who are gay are some different breed or something. We're all just people at the end of the day. They're nothing more, nothing less than any non-gay person. If we lived in utopia I'd agree with nearly every word but having been called names and attacked growing up for my sexuality, I think you're doing what the majority will and tell the minority how they should feel. No-one ever gets spat at for being straight. No-one calls you names just because you're straight. There's no straight stereotypes mocking you.Society is built on the idea that straight is the ideal and the norm. If you've never had to go through growing up with day to day battles just to be who you are, forgive me if I don't think you're 100% qualified to speak on the matter with authority or definition. "Pride" is a damn apt name. You're not actually answering my point. I already said that socially we have problems. Problems will only stop if we tell people not to do say such vulgar things - but only if they say it - and not segregating LGBTQ people from others and stereotype them, which this video seems intent on doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 23:02:17 GMT
53 years and how many gay characters in Doctor Who? Precious few. How many non-white characters? As David notes, if the world were as you describe, I too would agree with you 100% but that isn't the real world. Again, from the US perspective, things are getting worse not better. We don't actually know how many gay characters there are in the show. In classic who and quite a lot of new who, they don't mention the sexuality of characters. Race, however, was a major issue in classic who, due to there being racism at the time. However, nowadays we get a fairly representational amount off POC in the show. And it feels like they're casting people because of talent, not skin colour in the show, which I'm very happy about. And - look - I don't know about America, but I've always found that the only reason people think there's more racism is because they go out of their way looking for it. I heard some story on BBC Radio London the other day about a supposed racial attack involving the police, despite their being no evidence towards there actually being any racism. In fact, a former police chief said the police operated perfectly well. I've always found that people who look for divisions are the ones causing issues. It shouldn't matter about diversity. Get people who fit the shoe. Stop making things about minorities. Make things for everyone!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 23:05:53 GMT
No, that's from a lawful perspective. In terms of the law, we are an equal society. It's hard to dispute that. Many people, though, would say that socially there is inequality. The only way to stop social inequality is thinking of white people as people, black people as people, gay people as people, straight people as people. Don't make there seem to be anything special or different about them. Carry on with everyday life and just be happy. It's why I disagree with this video which makes it seem as if people who are gay are some different breed or something. We're all just people at the end of the day. They're nothing more, nothing less than any non-gay person. I am not talking a shot or trying to mock you when I write this but that is a mind numbingly simplistic thing to say. Of course we are all just people but the fact remains there are some sections of society where some people are more equal than others. And I don't know about specific laws in the UK but in the US there is a distinct inequality in how gay & trans people are treated under the law. Hell we saw it yesterday with Trump's ban of trans Americans in the military. If things were as you insist them to be, then the needs of groups and videos such as the one you posted would not be needed. It is like when people say all lives matter to black lives matter activists. Of course all lives matter but when you dig into the numbers of black deaths at the hands of police, the levels if incarceration for black Americans versus white Americans and all down the line you see a huge disparity. Completely not equal. Anyway, again I am not insulting you but I do think your comments reflect a world of how you would like it to be or how you see it from your vantage point and not the reality of how life is for others or how the world really is specifically for them. Yeah, I think Trump's ban is wrong, but I'm referring to the UK. If you look on a worldwide scale there are a lot of countries that impose the ridiculous Sharia Law, which is much worse than anything Trump does and anyone who disagrees with that must be quite dim. I disagree with Trump, you know, but he isn't my problem. Go on your street riots if you want, but don't do stupid sh*t like making out that these people are different. I've always found that it p***es a lot of people off. If people do go on riots, say it's for equality, not because they're unique or anything because that is why Trump has chosen to do it because he thinks they're different and, if YOU treat them as different that gives him and others akin to him further ammunition.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 23:07:27 GMT
53 years and how many gay characters in Doctor Who? Precious few. How many non-white characters? As David notes, if the world were as you describe, I too would agree with you 100% but that isn't the real world. Again, from the US perspective, things are getting worse not better. We don't actually know how many gay characters there are in the show. In classic who and quite a lot of new who, they don't mention the sexuality of characters. Race, however, was a major issue in classic who, due to there being racism at the time. However, nowadays we get a fairly representational amount off POC in the show. And it feels like they're casting people because of talent, not skin colour in the show, which I'm very happy about. And - look - I don't know about America, but I've always found that the only reason people think there's more racism is because they go out of their way looking for it. I heard some story on BBC Radio London the other day about a supposed racial attack involving the police, despite their being no evidence towards there actually being any racism. In fact, a former police chief said the police operated perfectly well. I've always found that people who look for divisions are the ones causing issues. It shouldn't matter about diversity. Get people who fit the shoe. Stop making things about minorities. Make things for everyone! Except there are mountains of evidence. Yesterday the DoJ filed a brief saying that there are no protections for gay Americans if they are discriminated against. Things are not equal. I would love them to be but they are not. To say there is no evidence is literally closing your eyes to reality.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 28, 2017 23:08:24 GMT
So highlighting something as all inclusive is actually divisive in your opinion?
Regards
mark687
No. The video seems to be making a big deal out of how LGBTQ like the show. My question is: so what? Who cares? Why make a video on this? Why makes LGBTQ people diffferent from anyone else? Should they do a version with this with just white people and make a big deal of it? NO! Because it was being made by, watched and valued by people at a time where being who they were was illegal and supposedly highlighting how far society's come since.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 23:10:35 GMT
We don't actually know how many gay characters there are in the show. In classic who and quite a lot of new who, they don't mention the sexuality of characters. Race, however, was a major issue in classic who, due to there being racism at the time. However, nowadays we get a fairly representational amount off POC in the show. And it feels like they're casting people because of talent, not skin colour in the show, which I'm very happy about. And - look - I don't know about America, but I've always found that the only reason people think there's more racism is because they go out of their way looking for it. I heard some story on BBC Radio London the other day about a supposed racial attack involving the police, despite their being no evidence towards there actually being any racism. In fact, a former police chief said the police operated perfectly well. I've always found that people who look for divisions are the ones causing issues. It shouldn't matter about diversity. Get people who fit the shoe. Stop making things about minorities. Make things for everyone! Except there are mountains of evidence. Yesterday the DoJ filed a brief saying that there are no protections for gay Americans if they are discriminated against. Things are not equal. I would love them to be but they are not. To say there is no evidence is literally closing your eyes to reality. In America. Not the UK. If this is the case, riot about that. Not Donald Trump jesting about women or coppers shooting a black man, for racist or potentially non-racist reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 23:11:16 GMT
No. The video seems to be making a big deal out of how LGBTQ like the show. My question is: so what? Who cares? Why make a video on this? Why makes LGBTQ people diffferent from anyone else? Should they do a version with this with just white people and make a big deal of it? NO! Because it was being made by, watched and valued by people at a time where being who they were was illegal and supposedly highlighting how far society's come since.
Regards
mark687
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jul 28, 2017 23:18:33 GMT
Because it was being made by, watched and valued by people at a time where being who they were was illegal and supposedly highlighting how far society's come since.
Regards
mark687
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed. Well, that's just all kinds of insulting right there. I don't think you meant it like it reads but... Coming out is not some form of self segregation, it's asserting your identity as a person in the face of the historical default cis heterosexual narrative. It's at the very least an attempt to be happy in your own skin. And seeing representatives of who and what you are in something like Who is important, and as has been pointed out the seeming asexuality of earlier Who was helpful, in that while you might not have been visibly represented you weren't turned away and left in the cold. Breed? If you mean finding those of like mind who share what you do, then perhaps yes.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 28, 2017 23:20:59 GMT
Because it was being made by, watched and valued by people at a time where being who they were was illegal and supposedly highlighting how far society's come since.
Regards
mark687
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed. I think you missed the point of why they did it and why there's a whole selection of similar programmes on at the moment.
As David says you have a somewhat utopian view on it and society in genereal.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 28, 2017 23:31:46 GMT
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed. Well, that's just all kinds of insulting right there. I don't think you meant it like it reads but... Coming out is not some form of self segregation, it's asserting your identity as a person in the face of the historical default cis heterosexual narrative. It's at the very least an attempt to be happy in your own skin. And seeing representatives of who and what you are in something like Who is important, and as has been pointed out the seeming asexuality of earlier Who was helpful, in that while you might not have been visibly represented you weren't turned away and left in the cold. Breed? If you mean finding those of like mind who share what you do, then perhaps yes. Agreed. I hope you didn't intend it that way but those words do come off as insulting and condescending.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 23:41:41 GMT
But this isn't a historical account. It's about why gay people watch the show. Like they're some kind of breed. Well, that's just all kinds of insulting right there. I don't think you meant it like it reads but... Coming out is not some form of self segregation, it's asserting your identity as a person in the face of the historical default cis heterosexual narrative. It's at the very least an attempt to be happy in your own skin. And seeing representatives of who and what you are in something like Who is important, and as has been pointed out the seeming asexuality of earlier Who was helpful, in that while you might not have been visibly represented you weren't turned away and left in the cold. Breed? If you mean finding those of like mind who share what you do, then perhaps yes. What I meant by breed is that they're treating them as if they're different, but they're not. They're not a breed. They're just simple human beings like the rest of us. This thing here makes out as if gay people have specific preferences because they're gay, but that isn't at all true. Gay people can't be stereotyped. No group of people can ever be stereotyped.
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