|
Post by escalus5 on Sept 12, 2017 16:39:27 GMT
I find it surprising that I seem to agree. To a point. I actually feel that the increase in political "debate" (I say that with tongue in cheek) has led to a bleed over of testiness into other threads. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find that, for the last few months I am more likely to second guess myself before posting or holding back at times because of this. I can't point to specific posts, it's just a general feeling. And I won't go near any political threads, American or otherwise. I just don't like the overall feeling of "I'm right and you are an idiot if you don't agree with me" that is in those threads. From the moment it was decided that the forum should have political threads, the DU became a ticking time bomb (recent elections being what finally set it off). I've always felt that the healthiest message boards have a strict "no politics" rule.
|
|
|
Post by jasonward on Sept 12, 2017 17:10:14 GMT
How can we talk about Who and avoid politics?
But even so, I disagree, this forum and its past incarnation have always discussed politics, why should now be any different?
|
|
|
Post by muckypup on Sept 12, 2017 17:13:49 GMT
I find it surprising that I seem to agree. To a point. I actually feel that the increase in political "debate" (I say that with tongue in cheek) has led to a bleed over of testiness into other threads. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find that, for the last few months I am more likely to second guess myself before posting or holding back at times because of this. I can't point to specific posts, it's just a general feeling. And I won't go near any political threads, American or otherwise. I just don't like the overall feeling of "I'm right and you are an idiot if you don't agree with me" that is in those threads. From the moment it was decided that the forum should have political threads, the DU became a ticking time bomb (recent elections being what finally set it off). I've always felt that the healthiest message boards have a strict "no politics" rule. I think it is good to have a place to voice our opinion politically, it's been interesting to see how everyone views themselves which it is often very different from an outsiders point of view. it would be a poorer place if it was banned. for me it was the gender politics issue over the female doctor that caused most offence and how could talk on that be blocked. for me it's fine to disagree (& to a certain point be offended) by someone's views that's life! I get annoyed every day with the news, but it's never right to try to offended a poster over it, disagree by all means just don't call them sexist, racist, delusional, etc. and let's face it most of the time confusion arises because because it poorly worded or phrased. and if it gets a tad heated shake hands, agree to disagree and move on. also I am more guilty of this than most, but let's try (for a while at least) post more positive stuff than negative let's leave that for the real world.
|
|
|
Post by nudge on Sept 12, 2017 17:27:19 GMT
I find it surprising that I seem to agree. To a point. I actually feel that the increase in political "debate" (I say that with tongue in cheek) has led to a bleed over of testiness into other threads. Maybe I'm wrong, but I find that, for the last few months I am more likely to second guess myself before posting or holding back at times because of this. I can't point to specific posts, it's just a general feeling. And I won't go near any political threads, American or otherwise. I just don't like the overall feeling of "I'm right and you are an idiot if you don't agree with me" that is in those threads. But I still love this place and all of you crazy people. Whilst I am newly registered, I have been a reader of the forum for the last year and totally agree. Surely if you want to discuss politics/religion/ethics there are other forums which cater specifically for that so not sure why people feel the need to discuss such things on a discussion board primarily aimed at Big Finish Productions. It just generates ill feeling between forum members.
|
|
|
Post by The Matt on Sept 12, 2017 17:35:42 GMT
Well, the world at the moment is quite polarised. Everyone's got their teeth and claws out and looking at the pattern of history, it's round about now in each decade where various cultural concerns are starting to come to the fore. It's all violent, angry and depressing, let's not pretend that it isn't, because that is precisely what we need to be aware of at the moment. Here at this assembly for open discussion, we are all representatives of the myriad views we hold. How your viewpoint is judged precisely by how you act and react. That is not a condemnation, that is a statement of fact: it is very important to remember that when you bring a controversial view to board, you are responsible for how it is aired. With careful deliberation or otherwise. An audience cannot infer tonation or body language where there is none, so it has to be done very carefully. And I will say this because it's worth repeating: Tolerance does not mean you must agree, nor should the discussion require that from you to proceed. Indeed, it often falls flat on its face when it stops being about voicing disparate views and becomes about who is right. However, tolerance does mean that you respect the other side as human beings and we do have our foibles. Human beings get tired, human beings get hurried, human beings get vulnerable. No one is infallible, no one can always say precisely the right thing at precisely the right moment. The only thing we can be sure of is that we keep what this forum is all about alive -- being fun and tolerant. That sounds like a worthy goal to me, irrespective of whoever you are, wherever you come from and how bad a day we've been having. really? a lot more likely is that some people just have somewhat of a superiority complex lately rather than that somewhat excessively verbose reply. I agree that in the politics threads some people do consider themselves to be professional political analysts and paint themselves as seemingly knowing everything but i think the "considerably better than you" attitude is currently permeating the forum as a whole
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 1:39:41 GMT
a lot more likely is that some people just have somewhat of a superiority complex lately rather than that somewhat excessively verbose reply. I agree that in the politics threads some people do consider themselves to be professional political analysts and paint themselves as seemingly knowing everything but i think the "considerably better than you" attitude is currently permeating the forum as a whole Attempts to be imperious tend to bounce off me personally, so I can't say. I'm reluctant to assume the worst in the people here, I do think that a large part of it is the outside world leaking in, particularly from the American politics thread and that isn't a dig at the Americans, I have only seen Australian politics turn up twice without prompting and it's a scarcity to see discussions about the British government in a conventional thread. However, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist... Hmm... Okay. If you do think it's a problem, then there's a very simple way of knowing where you stand -- talk to them. Talk to these people about your concerns, air them and reach an understanding. Otherwise, it's a vague miasma of "people who are out to get me". You don't want that, I don't want that, no one wants that. Be a bigger human being than they are and try to do some good because if it is true, it's affecting other posters as well. How can we talk about Who and avoid politics? But even so, I disagree, this forum and its past incarnation have always discussed politics, why should now be any different? Well, it's not different except in one respect. *sigh* And again, this is not a slight against our American cousins, but there is a real world component at play here. I'm going to springboard off this question, Jason, because it's a good one. The war that should be left outside is coming in here, I am seeing it happen with my own eyes. An online video filmed months in advance about an eighteenth-century historical recipe called "Orange Fool" became a battleground for people's views. The guy responsible sat down in one of his response videos (where he'd normally talk about chainmail assembly and the like) and spent fifteen minutes lamenting how screwed up politics was that a custard dessert had become Pickett's charge up Cemetary Hill. Dozens of little occurrences like that have occurred, but this one here has become symbolic of a much larger problem. Everyone needs to take a step back. It's not your fault what has happened as a whole, nor should you be ashamed of your home. I'm not asking for shame, I'm not asking for pity, I'm not asking for scorn, I am asking you to do something and that is take a step back. Not just with the politics (which some have done already), but the attitudes that come with it. Right here, right now, in this place, we talk about Doctor Who and Big Finish. That is our joy, that is our love and it will not be spat at by sly persecution, paranoia or anxious fear. Do not treat those who have nothing to do with your troubles as if they're part of it, I cannot stand that attitude. And do not come here with the intent of picking a fight to make yourself feel big. It is cowardly, it is idiotic and it makes you so very small.Alright? Alright. It was unpleasant, but it had to be said. Now, we can get back to what's actually important -- we are here for Doctor Who and dammit, we are going to have fun with it.
|
|
|
Post by The Matt on Sept 13, 2017 17:25:59 GMT
Do you not see how your post in itself could be taken as you being superior? You know what is wrong with the forum and you know how everyone else can fix it?
From a personal point of view I felt very talked down to and patronised by your post
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 13, 2017 22:23:34 GMT
The war that should be left outside is coming in here, I am seeing it happen with my own eyes. An online video filmed months in advance about an eighteenth-century historical recipe called "Orange Fool" became a battleground for people's views. The guy responsible sat down in one of his response videos (where he'd normally talk about chainmail assembly and the like) and spent fifteen minutes lamenting how screwed up politics was that a custard dessert had become Pickett's charge up Cemetary Hill. Huh, didn't know you were a fellow viewer of James Townsend. '18th Century Cooking' is one of the most underrated shows on Youtube.
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 13, 2017 22:32:12 GMT
Do I think people have gone overboard, myself included? Yes, absolutely, and I apologise for my end when it does.
Forums will always have ups and downs, bright and dark days. That's an inevitability of anything that involves a concentration of people on the internet, especially in the notoriously sticking realm of media fandom, Who and otherwise. No one, whether it's masterdoctor or a couple of months back with TinDog or timelord, should feel put upon or maligned for holding a view. If you're not being nasty, lazy or hyperbolic, then you can express yourself and we should, even when we don't agree, at least allow people their space. That openess and variety of perspectives is the whole beauty of the DU, and we should maintain that for the health of this little marvel.
Always strive to be better, as our hero in the phone box would say, but let's be wary of the line between 'respect' and 'blind agreement', because that's just as bad as mindless offense and firestarting.
|
|
|
Post by barnabaslives on Sept 13, 2017 23:22:49 GMT
Do you not see how your post in itself could be taken as you being superior? You know what is wrong with the forum and you know how everyone else can fix it? From a personal point of view I felt very talked down to and patronised by your post I could see how the bolded font might risk a false air of authoritarianism, lol, but I'm somehow feeling fairly sure that that isn't how the post was meant, or what it was meant to achieve. If it sounded a tad territorial, it might be understandable enough as someone feeling a little bit protective about something they are fond of, even if taken to an extreme, that too can contribute to community unrest. It may well be accurate enough that the political discussions here have been commendably civilized as long as no one is choosing sides and taking up arms, or specifically trying to stir up trouble. Also, at least half of it has already proven to be very good advice for me, more than once this year. If I don't have any business giving advice to others (and likely don't), at least some of the advice I'm trying to give myself is to try not to take things out on others, to try not to take things wrong or too personally or in a spirit other than was intended, and to try not to let my level of displeasure with reality tinge my level of enthusiasm for fantasy, lest I think I heard a rotten story on a great day when it was actually a great story on a rotten day. :-)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 1:22:06 GMT
The war that should be left outside is coming in here, I am seeing it happen with my own eyes. An online video filmed months in advance about an eighteenth-century historical recipe called "Orange Fool" became a battleground for people's views. The guy responsible sat down in one of his response videos (where he'd normally talk about chainmail assembly and the like) and spent fifteen minutes lamenting how screwed up politics was that a custard dessert had become Pickett's charge up Cemetary Hill. Huh, didn't know you were a fellow viewer of James Townsend. '18th Century Cooking' is one of the most underrated shows on Youtube. Absolutely, it's really charming. People can find it at the link here. I definitely recommend it for those moments when you want to unwind.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 1:53:50 GMT
Do you not see how your post in itself could be taken as you being superior? You know what is wrong with the forum and you know how everyone else can fix it? From a personal point of view I felt very talked down to and patronised by your post I'll be straightforward then. it is not intended to patronise you, nor make you feel stupid. Never. I am offering my view and rather than lamenting about how unfair it all is and doing nothing (no, that is not targeted at you, nor anyone), I am offering what I believe to be a solution. It is getting unbelievably frustrating to see people be hurt -- intentionally or unintentionally -- and as barnabaslives says, I am very protective of this place. The tragedy of the commons is to sit around and just let things fall apart, rather than actually doing something about it. That doesn't make me better than anyone else. I don't want to be better than anyone else. I'd have thought that since we care about this place so much, we'd all try and offer ways to fix it. You can disagree with me, that's your prerogative as it is mine. I do not have all the answers. I never believed I did. Please at least respect me for my opinions, even if you don't agree with them because I respect yours. This drama... It does get frustrating. It does get difficult and honestly, I don't care about it. This... All this, is so beside the point for me, it's mindboggling. I just want to chat about Doctor Who and give other fan writers a leg up where possible. That is all I want. *sigh* And honestly, having given it some thought, I'm starting to see why leaving the forum can look so appealing. You try to offer help and you're smacked down for it... Maybe I should just go.
|
|
|
Post by elkawho on Sept 14, 2017 2:24:15 GMT
No no no no no, @wolfie53, no! Don't go!
This too shall pass.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 3:02:50 GMT
No no no no no, @wolfie53 , no! Don't go! This too shall pass. Thanks. I'm thinking that even if I wanted to -- and I'm not sure I'd want to -- I can't. I can't just set up something for more than a dozen people and just leave them in the lurch. That's unbelievably irresponsible. You're right, of course. You're right. It just stings a bit at the moment, that's all.
|
|
|
Post by The Matt on Sept 14, 2017 4:47:02 GMT
Sorry Wolfe but at present all your posts on this topic, and many others, are coming across as lectures. You might not intend it that way but that's how it is. I feel like I'm at University and you're a tutor who'd rather show how intelligent he thinks he is to the other smaller less intellectual minds. That you think your opinion is somehow more important or better. Maybe just reign your posts, and the unnecessary verbiage, in a little?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 5:09:56 GMT
Sorry Wolfe but at present all your posts on this topic, and many others, are coming across as lectures. You might not intend it that way but that's how it is. I feel like I'm at University and you're a tutor who'd rather show how intelligent he thinks he is to the other smaller less intellectual minds. That you think your opinion is somehow more important or better. Maybe just reign your posts, and the unnecessary verbiage, in a little? I'm sorry, but... You're asking me to change the way I speak. It's like... Like saying to someone "Can you dial back the accent?" I literally can't do that. It's how I talk in real life. I cannot change that, that's me. Edit: That's... a problem with who I am... I have no other way to respond but to be hurt by that. Really very badly. I don't want to be here anymore.
|
|
|
Post by The Matt on Sept 14, 2017 5:44:30 GMT
I'm sorry but when people say "I don't want to be here anymore" then they might as well just say "please beg me to stay, please" If you don't want to be here then don't. No need for a grand statement!!!!
End of the day it is up to you if you stay or go. Making that kind of statement just seems a little........sad
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 5:58:35 GMT
I'm sorry but when people say "I don't want to be here anymore" then they might as well just say "please beg me to stay, please" If you don't want to be here then don't. No need for a grand statement!!!! End of the day it is up to you if you stay or go. Making that kind of statement just seems a little........sad Alright. I've given it some thought. I'm not going to be bullied out, but this isn't constructive, so I'm leaving the conversation. There are other things for me to be doing.
|
|
|
Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 14, 2017 6:38:45 GMT
I'm sorry but when people say "I don't want to be here anymore" then they might as well just say "please beg me to stay, please" If you don't want to be here then don't. No need for a grand statement!!!! End of the day it is up to you if you stay or go. Making that kind of statement just seems a little........sad Right. Let's be clear We are human and require validation. Not understandin this shows a basic flaw in your thinking. We are here because we like it. If we feel un wanted we ask for some form of validation. Of we get it. We stay... (in my case) Or we leave... as had happened. It is sad that we arnt robots but it's just a fact. Now im quite unhappy with the current state of things too. So unhappy that I ovet reacted and locked... then unlocked a thread. I miss used my power without consulting others. For that I'm sorry.
|
|
|
Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 14, 2017 6:42:55 GMT
Also. I don't know how it works elsewhere...
But in the UK
if someone feels bullied then they are bullied.
And I Won't stand for it.
|
|