lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 23, 2019 11:58:46 GMT
Amusing interview with Labour shadow cabinet member Richard Burgon on Sky about whether Labour should back an election Sky: The polls say you won't win Burgon: Yes, but the polls said that last time Sky: Yes, and you didn't win last time Labour have many really good and competent MPs who are reasoned and excellent on TV. Unfortunately, for the most part, they're not on the Front Bench and instead, they trot out numpties who are like a flustered geography teacher on their first day at a crazy rough school full of kids who would put the wind right up the SAS. Yvette Cooper - excellent; Hilary Benn - excellent; Barry Gardener - not so much. A huge part of Labour's problem - and their leader is tied into this - is that they can't get a message out clearly. Their message isn't a simple one-line one anyway, so the conveying of it needs to be clear - and unfortunately it isn't. There are a few on Labour's Front Bench who are good TV performers but they can't do every bit of telly. There are times, when I'm watching the news, that I find myself hoping a shepherd's crook will come in off the side of the screen to hook Barry Gardener and his ilk off the screen and put us out of his misery. Keir Starmer would be my choice for PM
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,013
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 23, 2019 12:43:48 GMT
What to make of it all?
On balance it looks as if BJ would win an election, but not a certainty as they would undoubtedly lose some support to Lib Dems and Brexit party and SNP in Scotland. Would their gains elsewhere from brexit-inclined Labour voters be enough to offset these and deliver a majority? And if no majority then they have no potential coalition partners, having fallen out with the DUP
Hard to see any sense in Labour going for a GE - potential to be 1983 all over again - but given what they have said in the past it is hard to see a face-saving way of avoiding it.
Of course the other option is for BJ to try and take the next 2 or 3 weeks to pass his deal, but in all likelihood the MPs would amend it to mandate government to seek a customs union in the talks about the long term relationship. This would be toxic to the ERG who would withdraw support, so where would that leave Boris? Opposing his own Withdrawal bill? In a sense losing the vote on the programme motion last night has got Boris off a potentially very difficult hook and if he can pivot to a general election he avoids becoming ensnared on that hook. So Labour's best option is probably to try and force BJ's bill through with unacceptable amendments and bring BJ to the point where he is whipping his MPs to vote against his own deal.
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Post by iainmclaughlin on Oct 23, 2019 12:48:08 GMT
Labour have many really good and competent MPs who are reasoned and excellent on TV. Unfortunately, for the most part, they're not on the Front Bench and instead, they trot out numpties who are like a flustered geography teacher on their first day at a crazy rough school full of kids who would put the wind right up the SAS. Yvette Cooper - excellent; Hilary Benn - excellent; Barry Gardener - not so much. A huge part of Labour's problem - and their leader is tied into this - is that they can't get a message out clearly. Their message isn't a simple one-line one anyway, so the conveying of it needs to be clear - and unfortunately it isn't. There are a few on Labour's Front Bench who are good TV performers but they can't do every bit of telly. There are times, when I'm watching the news, that I find myself hoping a shepherd's crook will come in off the side of the screen to hook Barry Gardener and his ilk off the screen and put us out of his misery. Keir Starmer would be my choice for PM I think he'd be refreshingly competent, but he lacks the zing and personality parties tend to like in their leaders. He's not over-endowed with charisma. Personally, though, right now I'll settle for competent. Debates between him and Johnson would be fascinating. One side all bluster, fluster and jingoistic flag-waving and the other side, cold hard analytical facts. In these weird days I'm unconvinced that facts would beat jingoism, although I definitely hope they would.
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Post by sherlock on Oct 23, 2019 15:08:47 GMT
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,013
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 23, 2019 15:57:47 GMT
Keir Starmer would be my choice for PM I think he'd be refreshingly competent, but he lacks the zing and personality parties tend to like in their leaders. He's not over-endowed with charisma. Personally, though, right now I'll settle for competent. Debates between him and Johnson would be fascinating. One side all bluster, fluster and jingoistic flag-waving and the other side, cold hard analytical facts. In these weird days I'm unconvinced that facts would beat jingoism, although I definitely hope they would. He is the best of the current shadow cabinet. On the backbenches, as you say, Yvette Cooper and to a lesser degree Hilary Benn have emerged as the best of Labour MPs.
On the Tory side, Dominic Grieve is the one who has emerged with real credit from this, but he has well and truly burnt his bridges with his party. Ken Clarke is too old now, but he will always be the best PM we never had. Philip Hammond, like Grieve has burnt his bridges, but he has gone up in my estimation since he ceased to be Chancellor. Of those with a realistic chance of leading the party ... there in no-one I especially rate mainly because they are deluded enough to believe in brexit or unprincipled enough to pretend. Rory Stewart might have a chance of being the leader after the next leader after Boris. He is about the best of them. Bring back John Major!
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Post by iainmclaughlin on Oct 23, 2019 21:03:44 GMT
I think he'd be refreshingly competent, but he lacks the zing and personality parties tend to like in their leaders. He's not over-endowed with charisma. Personally, though, right now I'll settle for competent. Debates between him and Johnson would be fascinating. One side all bluster, fluster and jingoistic flag-waving and the other side, cold hard analytical facts. In these weird days I'm unconvinced that facts would beat jingoism, although I definitely hope they would. He is the best of the current shadow cabinet. On the backbenches, as you say, Yvette Cooper and to a lesser degree Hilary Benn have emerged as the best of Labour MPs.
On the Tory side, Dominic Grieve is the one who has emerged with real credit from this, but he has well and truly burnt his bridges with his party. Ken Clarke is too old now, but he will always be the best PM we never had. Philip Hammond, like Grieve has burnt his bridges, but he has gone up in my estimation since he ceased to be Chancellor. Of those with a realistic chance of leading the party ... there in no-one I especially rate mainly because they are deluded enough to believe in brexit or unprincipled enough to pretend. Rory Stewart might have a chance of being the leader after the next leader after Boris. He is about the best of them. Bring back John Major!
I do agree he's the best available to Labour on the Front Bench... though that's not exactly high praise. Chums on the Street of Shame assure me the Labour will go for a female leader next time which, I guess, means Emily Thornberry or Yvette Cooper... and while Cooper is exceptionally well qualified for the job she's tainted in the eyes of Corbynistas for being associated with Blair's era and idea of Labour. If they're right it'll be Thornberry - I just think Starmer or Cooper would be better.
For the Tories... watching Newsnight last night, there was an interesting quote from Ian Dale. "The big winner tonight is Jeremy Hunt." He is incredibly quiet right now, refusing to give quotes, keeping his head down. He may well fancy that he'll be Tory leader this time next year if things go badly for Johnson. I think Priti Patel may have something to say about that. If she ever becomes leader I really hope Scotland is independent by then.
Dominic Grieve has emerged with credit, as have Ken Clark and Rory Stewart, but none of them will be in the Commons after the next election. Grieve has been deselected, Clark is standing down anyway and Stewart is running as an independent for London mayor next year. He's the only one who could come back to the party - but the question is what kind of party the Tories will be in a year or two. They're not recognisable as the Tories I simply disagreed with in the 80s and 90s. It's further right than even Thatcher ever was. Not everyone in the party, naturally, but the lurch to the hard right is undeniable. I don't know if they can be pulled back before they break. There have certainly been meetings among Tories who lost the whip starting their own centre right party.
I think we are cursed to live in interesting times.
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Post by sherlock on Oct 24, 2019 16:09:53 GMT
Johnson’s putting forward a motion to be voted on Monday for an election on 12 December. If the EU give a three month extension tomorrow (which seems likely unless the French refuse to backdown) then officially at least there’s no reason for Labour to oppose...
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,013
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 24, 2019 16:15:17 GMT
Johnson’s putting forward a motion to be voted on Monday for an election on 12 December. If the EU give a three month extension tomorrow (which seems likely unless the French refuse to backdown) then officially at least there’s no reason for Labour to oppose... The rule seems to be a minimum of 5 weeks between dissolution and election so 5 weeks before 12 December is 7 November, which would give MPs another couple of weeks to pass the brexit bill (if they're going to).
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Post by sherlock on Oct 28, 2019 9:34:42 GMT
Looks like Johnson’s in need of a ditch to die in.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,013
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 28, 2019 10:47:02 GMT
Looks like Johnson’s in need of a ditch to die in. I'm sure plenty of ditch-owners would be only too happy to offer their ditch free of charge ...
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Post by number13 on Oct 28, 2019 13:25:51 GMT
A Ditch Too Far? Ditch Over Under Troubled Water?
Make your own puns!
But the ditch has not been abandoned, merely 'upcycled'. The new plan is to ditch this Parliament asap...
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Post by doctorkernow on Oct 28, 2019 19:13:15 GMT
Hello again.
The only certainty at present is that Adam Hills of the Last Leg is stuck with his ridiculous beard and whiskers for the foreseeable future...
As for an election campaign in this febrile atmosphere that will be fun if it finally appears. A bruising and rancorous few weeks I'm not looking forward to at all.
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Post by sherlock on Oct 29, 2019 10:56:08 GMT
Fixed Term Parliament motion failed last night, so the Government has put forward a one-line bill for an election. It seems Labour has decided to back it...so Christmas election (won’t this be fun).
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Post by number13 on Oct 29, 2019 12:25:42 GMT
What do we want? An election. When do we want it? We're OK with the 12th like he said
What didn't we want last night? An election.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 12:50:58 GMT
It would be funny if ye voted the Liberal Democrats in to power over there and they revoked Article 50 making 'Brexit' just a bad dream!
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Oct 29, 2019 13:05:47 GMT
I dont like Boris Johnson, but to say he broke a promise to get the UK out of the EU on Halloween is a bit much.
He was forced into it by the Benn Act. He asked for an extension as required. If the EU had said no then we would be out by the end of the week.
EDIT: I dont mean on this forum by the way. I just mean in the media
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 14:33:26 GMT
Fixed Term Parliament motion failed last night, so the Government has put forward a one-line bill for an election. It seems Labour has decided to back it...so Christmas election (won’t this be fun). Oh joy. Deep joy. Third general election in four years. And what happens if after we all trudge to our respective village halls / schools to vote for the same useful idiots, we end up with yet another hung parliament? The field of candidates where I live is very, very narrow. The Labour candidate for my constituency has just been suspended by the party a mere day after being selected as the candidate by the party. The sitting MP is somehow the current International Trade Secretary and former irate critic of the UK cheese importing industry ("It. Is. A. Disgrace!"). If we are unlucky we might get a Lib Dem candidate. If we are really unlucky we'll almost definitely get a Brexit party candidate. Not holding my breath that a candidate from the Greens will stand here, but keeping my fingers crossed for a candidate from the Monster Raving Loony party just to add a bit of spice to the very dull proceedings..🤦♂️ Hmmm...wonder if it's too late to emigrate?
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Post by sherlock on Oct 29, 2019 20:26:18 GMT
Assuming no shenanigans in the Lords tomorrow, we are now set on a general election on 12th December.
Oh joy.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 20:39:33 GMT
Assuming no shenanigans in the Lords tomorrow, we are now set on a general election on 12th December. Oh joy. Really is only one response...apt in 2017 and apt in 2019...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2019 21:03:33 GMT
Oh Brilliant! Finally a chance for the electorate to demonstrate where they stand in terms of wanting to leave the EU, or stay in. We've been asking years for a vote of some kind...
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