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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 6, 2019 15:21:58 GMT
Debatable. *waggles hand*
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 16:41:32 GMT
Debatable. *waggles hand* We've had a Tory government since 2010. Look at the state of the country.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 17:48:52 GMT
This really is developing into something less palatable by the day. Politicians have often been unscrupulous liars in the past, but rarely so blatantly as now.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 7, 2019 20:26:19 GMT
One thing recent poltics has made me realise is just how moderate and middle of the road my views are. Before I would have thought of myself as a fairly right wing tory - and I still do think Thatcher was our greatest pm whose reforms were necessary to break the unions and turn the country rounnd - but increasingly i am loathjng the current tory party leadership and cheering on the likes of Dominic Grieve David Gauke and John Major as they campaign for old fashioned sensible conservatism and hoping the liberals do well.
Farage and Johnstone have debased british politics and dragged them into the gutter, while Labour - which could and should be miles ahead in the polls - seems more concerned with producing a manifesto that will give the hard left the political equivalent of an orgasm, rather than one with credible policies that might actually command broad support in the country.
Rant over.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 12:09:35 GMT
What sought of vile person would vote Tory?
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 8, 2019 13:51:23 GMT
Debatable. *waggles hand* We've had a Tory government since 2010. Look at the state of the country. And remind me again HOW we got that government? And how many of the policies of Cameron & Co Jo Swinson voted for? Oh, it was nearly all of them. So while they're not Tory, they're not actually the middle ground either. If you're going to vote to stop Tory and it means voting Lib Dem because the Labour candidate just won't get it, then do, but otherwise vote Labour.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 8, 2019 13:55:43 GMT
One thing recent poltics has made me realise is just how moderate and middle of the road my views are. Before I would have thought of myself as a fairly right wing tory - and I still do think Thatcher was our greatest pm whose reforms were necessary to break the unions and turn the country rounnd - but increasingly i am loathjng the current tory party leadership and cheering on the likes of Dominic Grieve David Gauke and John Major as they campaign for old fashioned sensible conservatism and hoping the liberals do well. Farage and Johnstone have debased british politics and dragged them into the gutter, while Labour - which could and should be miles ahead in the polls - seems more concerned with producing a manifesto that will give the hard left the political equivalent of an orgasm, rather than one with credible policies that might actually command broad support in the country. Rant over. You know, since we're already heading into the rocky straits of the right wing, having that harder left manifesto means we should end up in the middle somewhere. Labour positing a manifesto any nearer to the Tory one would make no sense at all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 15:21:50 GMT
We've had a Tory government since 2010. Look at the state of the country. And remind me again HOW we got that government? And how many of the policies of Cameron & Co Jo Swinson voted for? Oh, it was nearly all of them. So while they're not Tory, they're not actually the middle ground either. If you're going to vote to stop Tory and it means voting Lib Dem because the Labour candidate just won't get it, then do, but otherwise vote Labour. I don't remember saying I was going to vote Lib Dem. Or that they were the middle ground. I simply said they were not as bad as Tory
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Post by doctorkernow on Dec 8, 2019 15:54:56 GMT
Hello again.
I still think my favourite image of the campaign is Mr Johnson sitting with a primary art class doing claywork. Made me laugh!
On a serious note, no matter what your politics do cast your vote this Thursday. FPTP system is still better than having no democratic say in who our political representatives are. As demonstrated on Friday's Last Leg, things are very close.
If you don't vote don't complain about the result on Friday! Best wishes to all. Hope the weather is ok.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2019 20:01:22 GMT
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 8, 2019 22:48:18 GMT
One thing recent poltics has made me realise is just how moderate and middle of the road my views are. Before I would have thought of myself as a fairly right wing tory - and I still do think Thatcher was our greatest pm whose reforms were necessary to break the unions and turn the country rounnd - but increasingly i am loathjng the current tory party leadership and cheering on the likes of Dominic Grieve David Gauke and John Major as they campaign for old fashioned sensible conservatism and hoping the liberals do well. Farage and Johnstone have debased british politics and dragged them into the gutter, while Labour - which could and should be miles ahead in the polls - seems more concerned with producing a manifesto that will give the hard left the political equivalent of an orgasm, rather than one with credible policies that might actually command broad support in the country. Rant over. You know, since we're already heading into the rocky straits of the right wing, having that harder left manifesto means we should end up in the middle somewhere. Labour positing a manifesto any nearer to the Tory one would make no sense at all. Er .... a more centrist manifesto would be more likely to win over centrist, floating voters. Plus the "Vote Boris in spite of all his faults because Corbyn is a commie" sentiment wouldnt have taken hold in the way it undoubtedly has in some quarters and is the reason why some Remainers are voting Tory. If Boris wins it will be because the Labour leadership chose to indulge their wildest fantasies rather than offer an credible alternative.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 10, 2019 20:28:34 GMT
And remind me again HOW we got that government? And how many of the policies of Cameron & Co Jo Swinson voted for? Oh, it was nearly all of them. So while they're not Tory, they're not actually the middle ground either. If you're going to vote to stop Tory and it means voting Lib Dem because the Labour candidate just won't get it, then do, but otherwise vote Labour. I don't remember saying I was going to vote Lib Dem. Or that they were the middle ground. I simply said they were not as bad as Tory And I don't remember accusing you of deciding to vote for them OR the Tories, "If you're going to vote..." is aimed at a general "you" and not you specifically, I KNOW that YOU aren't going to vote for them, I only have to read some of your comments earlier to see that. But to the general "you", unless it's a tactical vote to block the tories because that Labour candidate is just not going to win, then vote for them, but if not vote Labour. Sorry, Greens.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 10, 2019 20:32:59 GMT
You know, since we're already heading into the rocky straits of the right wing, having that harder left manifesto means we should end up in the middle somewhere. Labour positing a manifesto any nearer to the Tory one would make no sense at all. Er .... a more centrist manifesto would be more likely to win over centrist, floating voters. Plus the "Vote Boris in spite of all his faults because Corbyn is a commie" sentiment wouldnt have taken hold in the way it undoubtedly has in some quarters and is the reason why some Remainers are voting Tory. If Boris wins it will be because the Labour leadership chose to indulge their wildest fantasies rather than offer an credible alternative. I WAS that cenrist floating voter, left leaning but basically middle ground, and frankly I don't want Red Tory as opposed to Blue Tory. We're done with that. Manifestos are fine but they till have to hit the enemy ground of getting through Parliament, and things get negotiated. Anyway. Oh, Lidar, I think you'll like this I sometimes bug my even more lefty friends by pointing out that Thatcher's closing of the mines was a very green thing to do and she probably gave us a few extra years on the planet ROFL.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 0:18:39 GMT
I don't remember saying I was going to vote Lib Dem. Or that they were the middle ground. I simply said they were not as bad as Tory And I don't remember accusing you of deciding to vote for them OR the Tories, "If you're going to vote..." is aimed at a general "you" and not you specifically, I KNOW that YOU aren't going to vote for them, I only have to read some of your comments earlier to see that. But to the general "you", unless it's a tactical vote to block the tories because that Labour candidate is just not going to win, then vote for them, but if not vote Labour. Sorry, Greens. Fair enough. I mistakenly thought that as you were quoting me the you was a reference to me specifically...
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 11, 2019 8:58:40 GMT
So Boris said yesterday it was hard to see how brexit would happen if the Tories don't win a majority.
Hang on a minute, what exactly is he saying? A non-Tory majority will almost certainly mean a 2nd referendum. Is he therefore admitting Remain would likely win a 2nd referendum?
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 11, 2019 13:42:13 GMT
Maybe, but that's perhaps why we differ in predicting the outcome? Go by "Brexitiness" alone and Labour would lose many seats in the North and Wales to the Conservatives. Which I really think isn't going to happen. I've stayed off this thread recently because nobody who posts on a thread like this is going to change their opinion so what's the point?
But this self-quote is me nailing my colours to the mast to show I haven't changed my opinion either!
I still stand by the prediction I made at the start of September in the above post - the 'Tory Surge' in the North and Wales is NOT going to happen. "Labour people" will vote Labour just as I have voted Conservative.
If he's very, very lucky BJ might win a tiny majority by regaining a few seats that TM lost in 2017 AND if the Lib Dems don't win many seats in the south AND if the SNP don't gain enough votes in the Conservative-held Scottish seats.
But I think we're heading for another hung Parliament and another Conservative minority government. And for various reasons - mostly the removal of the former pro-EU Conservative rebels and the former Speaker - I think a No Deal at the end of Jan would then be very likely; it remains the default if nobody does anything to stop it and time will be very short.
Oh well, I'm out of here again, it's all too depressing.
That prediction surprises me. Most if not all of the Labour leavers will be gone so a hung Parliament will surely mean a pro-referendum majority. And I think it is inconceivable that a pro referendum majority in Parliament would allow us to end up with no-deal. No one I have spoken to has much enthusiasm for either Boris or Jeremy.
As for predictions? I think Boris will probably win, but possibly tactical voting and the record number of younger people registering to vote will produce a hung Parliament with the Tories as the largest party..
If there is a hung Parliament Downing Street is Labour's for the taking if they will only dump Corbyn. The Lib Dems have been careful to rule out supporting either Boris or Jeremy, but have left the door open to supporting either major party if they ditched their leader. The DUP have made their preference for the Tories clear but, like the Lib Dems, their anti-Labour comments have been more anti-Corbyn comments and have left the door open to supporting Labour under a different leader. So if it is a hung Parliament I think it will come down to a race between the Tories and Labour to see who can replace their leader fastest to see who gets to be PM.
EDIT: Not likely to happen, but the one thing I would love to see is Boris losing his seat
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,813
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 11, 2019 17:36:41 GMT
Who's going to sit up tomorrow night for the results?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 18:19:09 GMT
Who's going to sit up tomorrow night for the results? I intend to with a few drinks...but whether they will be consumed in celebration or drowning my sorrows remains to be seen...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2019 18:43:55 GMT
VOTE LABOUR
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Post by sherlock on Dec 11, 2019 19:11:06 GMT
Oh I’ll definitely be watching overnight coverage. Nothing quite like election results unfolding live.
In other news, spotted an old school friend sharing a post on Facebook containing a conspiracy theory about the photo of the boy on the hospital floor. Over a few messages, managed to ascertain he didn’t really believe in it and after being called out he took it down, so I’m counting that as one small victory against disinformation.
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