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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 26, 2019 3:13:27 GMT
Three episodes into season one and I'm quite liking it. At this point I think it is an excellent science fiction show that bears the Star Trek name and not an excellent Star Trek series. Granted it is early days but again, enjoying it. Thing freaking looks gorgeous.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 1, 2019 18:31:18 GMT
I finished up series one. Fan-freakin-tastic! Yes it was a dark journey but in the end hope guided the way. We can have a better world, we just need to be better people. I have not been this excited by Star Trek since the glory days of Deep Space Nine.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 2, 2019 0:51:08 GMT
Season 2, episode 1. Some pretty nifty recalibrations to lighten the show up. Pike is a breath of fresh air and it is nice to see the bridge crew members starting to get fleshed out a little bit. Lots of Easter eggs as well.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 2, 2019 4:07:25 GMT
Season 2, episode 1. Some pretty nifty recalibrations to lighten the show up. Pike is a breath of fresh air and it is nice to see the bridge crew members starting to get fleshed out a little bit. Lots of Easter eggs as well. I haven't seen it yet. I'm looking forward to it.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 2, 2019 4:12:27 GMT
Season 2, episode 1. Some pretty nifty recalibrations to lighten the show up. Pike is a breath of fresh air and it is nice to see the bridge crew members starting to get fleshed out a little bit. Lots of Easter eggs as well. I haven't seen it yet. I'm looking forward to it. It was there for free on You Tube, so I took it. Now I need to decide if I want to wait until the season two blu-rays hit later in the year or if I want to subscribe to CBS All Access to stay up to date. Frankly, it has been a long, long time since I was so enthused by a show bearing the words Star Trek.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 2, 2019 4:17:18 GMT
I haven't seen it yet. I'm looking forward to it. It was there for free on You Tube, so I took it. Now I need to decide if I want to wait until the season two blu-rays hit later in the year or if I want to subscribe to CBS All Access to stay up to date. Frankly, it has been a long, long time since I was so enthused by a show bearing the words Star Trek. That's my struggle, too. I'll be in the UK for a few days next weekend so I'll watch the first 3 episodes on Netflix over there, but then what do I do?! It's so frustrating, isn't it? But yeah, I thought the first season was so new and fresh, but still at it's core it was Star Trek. So exciting!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 2, 2019 4:21:35 GMT
It was there for free on You Tube, so I took it. Now I need to decide if I want to wait until the season two blu-rays hit later in the year or if I want to subscribe to CBS All Access to stay up to date. Frankly, it has been a long, long time since I was so enthused by a show bearing the words Star Trek. That's my struggle, too. I'll be in the UK for a few days next weekend so I'll watch the first 3 episodes on Netflix over there, but then what do I do?! It's so frustrating, isn't it? But yeah, I thought the first season was so new and fresh, but still at it's core it was Star Trek. So exciting! It is indeed frustrating. I know I will probably subscribe eventually...probably around the time the Picard-centric show premieres. I also wish there were more things on CBS All Access that I want to watch but there are not and that makes the cost harder to justify.
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Post by Digi on Feb 10, 2019 22:47:13 GMT
So last night was a lot of fun.... The Directors' Guild of Canada put on a Discovery event at the Tiff Bell Lightbox theatre (the one where the Toronto International Film Festival is held every year) with a bunch of the production people. My sister and I went early because she was interviewing Tamara Deverell (Production Designer) for the website TrekMovie, then they screened the Season 1 finale, followed by a Q&A. First it was running through slides of concept art and set blueprints with chat amongst the production people at the event, followed by a bit of audience questions. Good times all around. Also cool: I got to meet one of the people who runs the site TrekCore, and also Aaron Reynolds (the guy who runs Swear Trek).
The guests were: Tamara Deverell - Production Designer Joshu de Cartier - Supervising Art Director Matt Morgan - Set Designer Emilie Poulin - Set Designer Mike Stanek - Set Designer Andy Tsang - Graphic Designer Chris Penna - Set Designer & Concept Illustrator Tim Peel - Motion Graphic Designer Jody Clement - Art Director
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 23:11:46 GMT
Not much chat about S2 on here. Spoilers for it to follow.
It's nearly wrapped up and I have to say it's been a step up from Season One BUT it's still got major issues.
When the show is so arc-heavy there's just no room for any other adventures. There's very little "Discovery" in this show, and even less "Trek". I've loved Pike, he gives the show a centre, an equilibrium, that was missing before he arrived. Anson Mount has been making the role his own and I really think he fits in well to the pantheon. I'm not sure we're seeing what makes him such a Captain of legend but hey. He got one of the best scenes this show has had when we see to gain the time crystal he has to not only see his horrific accident and his chair bound future but actively accept it. Knowing Pike asked for his own living hell to save the future is powerful stuff that will make The Menagerie a more rounded ep in retrospect. That scene where we saw The Cage recapped was wonderful too, and very like the Capaldi finale with recapping The Tenth Planet.
Not enamoured with Peck's Spock. He's supposed to be between the Nimoy of The Cage and TOS S1 but I don't buy him as the same character at all. Not the best casting but it's mostly in the writing. Spock as petulant? Hmm. The Red Angel has run it's course and having it be Burnham's mother come back from the "dead" was cheap, soap-opera shenanigans. As was finally giving Airiam a character...only to kill her in the same ep. We're still not getting to know these people well at all.
I know the Picard spinoff is said to be quite dark, and Georgiou's Section 31 show will be too by it's nature so I'd kinda like Discovery to lighten up even more for S3. Have a good few standalone eps just being out there boldly going where no-one has gone before. Losing Pike as he returns to the Enterprise will be a blow as he'd be perfect to lead that lighter tone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 19:11:22 GMT
Very cheeky of them - the Ep 13 teaser is full of space battles with Section 31....then none of that is in the ep. It's a talkie prelude to the action that's actually from Ep 14. I liked Ep 13 quite a bit - the Enterprise bridge looks lovely. Very much in the Disco-design but recognisably "the" Bridge. When all the Discovery crew gave Pike a standing, silent ovation as he relinquished his command to return to Enterprise....that was one of the most emotional moments of the season for me. I'm gonna miss Pike a LOT. One more ep of the season to go. On the Picard show, Eps 2 and 4 are gonna be directed by Jonathan Frakes, who obviously played Riker in TNG but has directed a lot of great Trek including two of the movies. Safe pair of hands and a welcome addition to the team. Wonder if he'll film a Riker cameo? He describes Picard as a "10 hour movie" and that there are plans for 3 seasons. I'm hyped.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 13:10:51 GMT
Well, that's Season 2 done.
The last ep is going to thrill anyone who loves when Trek, or any franchise, does big space battles. It's HUGE scale. Quite breathtaking at points with visuals that a Hollywood blockbuster would be proud of. Yet it didn't forget the little moments. Peeved to see Admiral Cornwell die but she went out a hero. Saru's sister going from someone who doesn't know space travel exists to space pilot in months....nonsense..but heartfelt nonsense.
Loved most of the ep till the end - a ridiculously cheap, quick way to retcon the ship, Burnham, the crew, the spore drive...and we know there's going to be at least some way back to the past for them as Georgiou is getting her spinoff with Section 31. So essentially all this stuff DID happen in the TOS timeline...it's just surpressed. Spock always knows about Michael, he just can't speak about her. THe spore drive always existed, it's just been redacted from history. This could have worked - but it was all done with 3 mins left of the season. Afterthought doesn't even begin to cover it. Kurtzman had promised canon would lineup with TOS. It's as though the writers were only told of this after the scripts were in as it's so impossibly tossed off.
What could be fun though is projecting Trek much, much further into the future than we've ever seen. If the ship is all alone for a season, we may finally get the "Year Of Hell" story that Voyager should always have been. I think the creatives have been so sick of having to adhere to canon they've sent the ship beyond where canon exists to give themselves room to breathe. Why didn't they do this in the first place? After 2 years I see no reason Discovery ever had to be pre-TOS.
The last moments were both terrific and awful in what they did and didn't show. In not showing us even a hint of what Discovery finds on the other side of the timejump, there's no tease, no set up for what comes next. Last season gave us The Enterprise. This season gives us nothing. Instead we get the establishment, as we've been promised, of canon. We see Spock, beardless and blue-shirted in his rightful spot at the back left of the bridge, we see Pike back in the yellow. We have peace, if an uneasy one, with The Klingons. We have Pike knowing every day is one closer to his accident...and he didn't look old when he had it. All very nice. All very canon.
The big problem? It makes the audience even more interested for a Pike spinoff than S3 of Discovery. Fans have said all year Pike is the MVP and the end of this essentially he's the star and the Disco guys are gone. If you watched this ep cold, you'd assume the Disco crew were the guest stars since it ended so much on the Enterprise crew. TOS goes out the face of the season and we had no sting, no teaser for Disco S3 to make us think otherwise.
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Post by Digi on Apr 19, 2019 15:37:18 GMT
Well, that's Season 2 done. The last ep is going to thrill anyone who loves when Trek, or any franchise, does big space battles. It's HUGE scale. Yet it didn't forget the little moments. Peeved to see Admiral Cornwell die but she went out a hero. Saru's sister going from someone who doesn't know space travel exists to space pilot in months....nonsense..but heartfelt nonsense. Loved most of the ep till the end - a ridiculously cheap, quick way to retcon the ship, Burnham, the crew, the spore drive... Pretty much agreed across the board. I loved, loved, loved this season and the finale was spectacular....and while not "ridiculous" or "cheap," I did find myself somewhat let down by the handwaving it away as secret. It felt like a little bit of a copout in an otherwise magnificent episode. So essentially all this stuff DID happen in the TOS timeline...it's just surpressed. Spock always knows about Michael, he just can't speak about her. THe spore drive always existed, it's just been redacted from history. Which I have no problem with. I think that the vast majority of the canon "complaints" from so-called fans are simply nonsense, and that the show's writers were under no obligation to speak to a loudly vocal, incorrect tiny minority of viewers. I'd have been much happier if they'd just let it be and come back to sort out any minor kinks later on, as they come up. So, yeah -- a three-minute scene to respond to that nonsense was a weak point in this otherwise great episode. What could be fun though is projecting Trek much, much further into the future than we've ever seen. If the ship is all alone for a season, we may finally get the "Year Of Hell" story that Voyager should always have been. Yeah! I was actually thinking with last week's episode that in order to line up with the "Calypso" Short Trek episode, they'd end up with the ship in the distant future (32nd century, if memory serves) and the core cast out there trying to recover it. It looks like my hope/prediction is at least partially correct and that we'll be off to the future for season 3. On another level entirely, I think it's an interesting step back toward something similar to what Bryan Fuller originally wanted to do with the series, and have the show be an anthology series set in different time periods. It's not exactly that, I know, but...interesting just the same. I think the creatives have been so sick of having to adhere to canon they've sent the ship beyond where canon exists to give themselves room to breathe. Why didn't they do this in the first place? After 2 years I see no reason Discovery ever had to be pre-TOS. On that I would say I totally disagree. I've watched as much BTS material as I can find, and attended a Q&A panel with the production team and those people love fitting into the existing universe. They are huge fans who, judging from a bunch of the answers to questions I've heard, love the challenge of creating a show that fits into where the show is in the timeline. The last moments were both terrific and awful in what they did and didn't show. In not showing us even a hint of what Discovery finds on the other side of the timejump, there's no tease, no set up for what comes next. Last season gave us The Enterprise. This season gives us nothing. I think that's perfect. We know where they went, we don't know what's become of them. That's a gigantic cliffhanger for us the viewer, and gives the show a ton of leeway for where they pick up in the Season 3 premiere. The big problem? It makes the audience even more interested for a Pike spinoff than S3 of Discovery. Fans have said all year Pike is the MVP and the end of this essentially he's the star and the Disco guys are gone. I don't think that's a problem at all. We had a brilliant recurring 'guest' for a season, which has driven demand for a spin-off in addition to Discovery. I think that's awesome, and I would absolutely watch the hell out of both
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 17:16:44 GMT
Digi, we do disagree from time to time but I always do appreciate a well reasoned and polite response. There's nothing worse than talking to yourself as I have been in this thread the past few weeks! The show hasn't got this forum talking. No doubt as many of our US members can't see it if they don't have CBS All Access. Is it on Netflix everywhere else? Is anywhere getting it on TV or another streaming service? If you disagree with me calling the ending cheap, instead saying it's a cop-out...I'm not sure we're really disagreeing very much there I'd say we're both on the same path. The handwaving....it's just got no cleverness, no creativeness to it. "And we'll never speak of it again" is how bad soaps retcon, it shouldn't be done here. ANd it doesn't even really work. Only Discovery's demise and the drive could reasonably be secret. Everyone and their granny knew "The infamous mutineer" Michael Burnham, it's not as though she and the entire war she caused can be hushed. And even worse, it doesn't look like Sybock is going to be in it at all I agree this will give a flavour of an anthology show. It's quite new for a Trek show to radically alter its setting mid season. Michael Chabon who wrote Calypso has confirmed that, as many though, V'Draysh, is indeed a distortion of Federation, so perhaps we will see Calypso being either set up, or used as a starting point. I really like that the Short Treks have not been throways like almost all the mini-eps we get with Doctor Who but some pretty solid setups and tie ins to what happens on the parent show. I almost wish the Netflix stream I watched had a "Click here" when the Queen popped up last week so anyone who didn't see her Trek with Tilly before they go on! The anthology aspect of Fuller's pitch won't be just in S3 but in the franchise generally - Kurtzman says there's a plan for Trek to be on all year round. I can imagine some of the ideas from Fuller's concept will be explored in new series - surely Picard and a Section 31 series sound like the kind of thing we may have seen in that vein. We're getting two animated shows as well. A major rumour was Fuller pushing for a series set between Trek Generations and TNG with the lovely red naval outfits of the TOS films. Maybe something will rise from that sometime. I think Kurtzman saying he likes fitting into established canon in official behind the scenes pieces and actually liking it may be two different things. He only became sole showrunner last year so it's not as though it was his notion. This was Fuller's baby and others have had to step in when he left so deep into production. We'll only know in years to come what Kurtzman and co really feel but from DC Fontana, David Gerrold, Michael Piller, Ron Moore, Ira Behr and countless others onwards we can safely say what the creatives say at the time, and what they say at conventions and in documentaries after the fact years on may be quite different. The wonderful 50 Year Mission books by Mark A. Altman and Edward A. Gross are the best evidence of that. with the creatives giving their "real" opinions on Trek in retrospect, in their own words. A Discovery version in years to come would be welcome. I feel sure, having seen two years, they would rather have had a blank canvas than what they've given us, only to then need that blank canvas anyway. I don't think they've told enough story in these two seasons to have justified the setting. The Klingon war could have been any species and easily set post-Nemesis. No need for any of this to have been post-Cage, pre-TOS at all. It could easily be moved. I really don't get calling the end perfect, sorry, Digi. We ended on 5 solid mins of the guest cast. Anyone following this show will have seen nothing but "Pike spinoff, now please" comments, and this series ends with a better set up for that spinoff (which isn't actually happening!) than it does for Disco 3. This would actually with few tweaks be a better ending for the whole show than a season ender. You leave the audience wanting more from your show, nto someone elses, there's always something tangible to set up. Even if it's as goofy as the Titanic hitting the TARDIS. It's not as though these guys don't know this - they literally did it last season with the Enterprise arriving which got people talking. We didn't end last season with 5 mins of the new Klingon empire. This ending makes me, certainly, want more 1701 adventures than to see where Discovery arrived. Even showing them arriving to something massively unexpected - like last season with the Mirror Universe - then credits would be fine. You say this way audiences are hungry for a potential spinoff and Discovery, I'd counter with a lot of that audience are gonna be disappointed when there is no Pike show, and non-plussed with Discovery Season 3. Anson Mount has seemed to distance himself from wanting to do the Pike show - reading between the lines in interviews this week the schedule was not to his liking for Disco - so as much as I want to see that show, I won't hold my breath. I would love to see it - if for no other reason than it can be "Trek" in tone then the spinoffs can be whatever they need to be. Instead we get the Section 31 show with Yeoh (spoiling that Georgiou makes it back...), is anyone honestly hungry for that? Yeah, we'll watch it since it's Trek but what's the need other than content? They've announced four new Trek series already in Picard, Section 31 with Georgiou, Lower Decks and the kids animated one (not including a Pike one if it were to happen, and not including the ones Kurtzman says are being talked about). Now part of that, as I said, will be a mandate from CBS to make more content so their streaming service has more exclusives to generate subscribers and ad revenue but if they could speak to Brannon Braga and Rick Berman, whp presided over Enterprise and Nemesis, they'd be reminded what happens when there's too much Trek going about. Braga and Berman speak about just that in the book I cited above, 50 Year Mission. Trek went from bigger than ever to off screens big and small, completely dead, in a decade. I think they'd be wise to heed what just happened to Star Wars just this past 18 months. A polarising film generating horrendous PR in Last Jedi, a flop in Solo and the wiping of their upcoming slates to pause for a course correct. Trek only just came back on TV, I don't want to see it killed through complacency again. Just on this one show though, not Trek at large, I'm cautiously optimistic - they have a good cast in the show and I think it's about time they get used more. We only saw Ariam fleshed out literally minutes before killing her off. I still know so little of who these people are. Who's N'Han? The most I know is that she can't breathe without the tech on her face. That's more than I know about most of the bridge crew! Let's hope that S3 is where the discovery actually begins, pun intended. I want Jet Reno to be used more for one. She was the down to earth kick up the back side the show needed and then she vanished for 9 eps. Now that the crew is cut off and we can't just get in...I dunno....young Bones for a cameo, or have Harry Mudd back, this crew can make itself a bit more memorable. And I can't stress enough how I want more standalones. We hardly get any on this show. Picard has been called "a 10 hour movie" as well, so there really is a gap here for fun, ongoing adventures. Some think Orville does that....I say Trek can do it better!
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Post by Digi on Apr 19, 2019 21:46:38 GMT
Yeah we're mostly in agreement. Where we differ, we're not even differing all that much; for the most part it's just me saying 'yeah I agree, but I don't feel as intensely about it as you've written'
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 19, 2019 22:50:52 GMT
My bet is that Disco didn’t quite make it to the 32nd century and ends up in Picard’s time. This is why the upcoming Picard series isn’t yet named. Because it’s called Discovery.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2019 23:03:31 GMT
My bet is that Disco didn’t quite make it to the 32nd century and ends up in Picard’s time. This is why the upcoming Picard series isn’t yet named. Because it’s called Discovery. I don't see any advantage in merging Picard and Discovery - CBS are actively trying to make more Trek shows. Why waste Picard, even in the event Stewart was amiable, on Discovery S3 when he'd be a huge draw on his own show as the centerpiece? Patrick Stewart comes in to be no Trek's season long guest star. He's far too big for that as an actor and Picard as a character. If you're right, I'll eat Picard's straw hat from All Good Things!
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Post by Digi on Apr 19, 2019 23:42:04 GMT
Don't worry, Davy no need to up your fibre intake quite so much Alex Kurtzman has confirmed that the show is indeed jumping ahead 950 years for Season 3.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 4:37:59 GMT
Interview with Sonequa Martin Green, Michael Burnham herself: "If feel it is the most genius decision for Star Trek: Discovery. I’m so proud of our producers and writers for doing this, Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise and Jenny Lumet, who did an amazing job writing the finale. Them and the other writers deciding to take us to the future. Now we get to tell our own stories because we are going boldly where no other Star Trek has gone before. But at the same time we still who we are. We are still connected to the canon in the way that we are. We cannot help where we started. We cannot help that I am in the family of Sarek and Amanda and Spock. We will always have that, but now we can take who we are to this future we have never seen before and tell our story and see what the future holds and what has happened with everyone. I just could not believe what an awesome choice it was. I am beaming with pride, because I thought it was the perfect thing for us." trekmovie.com/2019/04/20/sonequa-martin-green-on-how-star-trek-discovery-can-start-telling-its-own-story-in-season-3/It reads to me that she'd rather not have been tied so much to TOS, or at least that somehow she's sorry they were with the "we can't help it" stuff. What exactly does Sonequa mean that they couldn't help but be woven so tightly to existing characters and timelines...it doesn't make much sense to me at all. I mean...the show could have helped it by not having her being "in the family of Sarek and Amanda and Spock" in the first place. They're only tied to it because the show was created with that as the concept, it could literally have been anything else - it's a massive universe with hundreds of years of timeline to play in. If you read the whole piece, Sonequa mentions canon so much, as Kurtzman did in his interview after the finale with the Hollywood Reporter., pretty much in every paragraph.Why the focus? To appease, as both Digi and I have said, a vocal but small minority? Why didn't they just do what they seem to be over the moon to do now - start with the clean slate - from inception? Set it 100 years after Picard et al, and what needs to change from the show's concept? Not much - you can still do Burnham as a human raised on Vulcan, still do a war with the Klingons, still do the spore drive reinventing space travel, still do Lorca and the mirror universe. It's a bit sad the major focus seems to be on how they wanted to tie so much into canon, and how they're now glad to be free of it - rather than just being happy with the show organically going where it has. Tying canon up in a bow, and being free of it going forward have literally zero impact on the quality of the show itself. It's nothing to be back-slapping about. If it was, the show may as well have just done what Star Trek Continues is, or Phase II. Being canon-friendly doesn't make it good or bad. When RTD revived Who, he knew his approach was going to alienate some old fans who had fixed notions on what Doctor Who "should" be. He believed that winning a new audience that far outweighed the immovable old school fans was the only way to go. I'm not sure Discovery's cast and crew have really got that same viewpoint - these interviews seem very much designed to reassure the canon-hounds that the sandbox is just as the Disco crew found it. The sort of stories they told annoyed those same fans. who hate Disco anyway - checkout how much hate Burnham gets on every post from the official FB and Twitter pages. If they're hating on you regardless, don't worry about appeasing them so much. I think a lot of those involved in making the show missed the main part in "To Boldly Go". Let's hope for Season 3 we really see the leash coming off and the show can take some big chances and really shake things up, creating their own vision rather than having to tailor one from 1966. Sonequa and Alex do seem genuinely happy to have this freedom that Season 3 is going to bring. I've got to believe their optimism is justified and that we can draw a line under being far, far too concerned about things lining up with established continuity which only a fraction of the wider audience know about, and even less of whom care about. The fans will watch anyway - even the ones that say they won't. We see that with DW all the time. They'll "hate-watch" as I believe the term is. Just ignore them and make the show we probably should have gotten in 2017 after all. We can get down to some real Discovery!
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Post by Digi on Apr 22, 2019 11:21:02 GMT
I think that, again, we're pretty much in agreement. I only differ slightly in that I think the implication of what Kurtzman and Sonequa-Green are saying is that they had lots of fun with these seasons, and are now excited for a fresh challenge. I don't think any of what they say is meant to cast aspersions on the first two seasons being railroaded in some way.
In any case -- someone find me one of those Red Angel suits so I can skip along to when Season 3 starts!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 12:15:23 GMT
I think that, again, we're pretty much in agreement. I only differ slightly in that I think the implication of what Kurtzman and Sonequa-Green are saying is that they had lots of fun with these seasons, and are now excited for a fresh challenge. I don't think any of what they say is meant to cast aspersions on the first two seasons being railroaded in some way. In any case -- someone find me one of those Red Angel suits so I can skip along to when Season 3 starts! They're not going to say anything other than how much fun it all is until years down the line, I think anything about how wonderful things are - not just from them, and not just in Trek - can be taken with more than a pinch of salt. Just like the New Who releases where nothing is bad, everyone is friends etc, wheras we get the "real" story on the classic series discs as they've nothing to lose decades on. Not that I'm saying they neccessarily didn't like it but anything said while the show is still in production with them involved is almost certainly puff piece - it has to be. We can all remember Eccleston on the chat shows saying how he enjoyed making the 2005 series...we know a bit better now! It's the "we can't help being tied to canon" thing that baffles me. Why couldn't that be helped? Was it written in stone this had to be set around TOS, and that Michael had to be related to Spock? Maybe Sonequa isn't the best at saying what she means, but I just don't get her meaning in saying that at all. Maybe it was written in stone and it was a CBS edict (though it's always been reported as Fuller's idea) - again we'll know much more in a decade and beyond.
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