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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 9:18:31 GMT
In DWM, awhile back, Steven Moffatt stated that the New Adventures contiunty no longer applies, but is a 'separate (and equally valid) continuity'. How do you feel about it no longer being canon?
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Post by subconiandreamer on Jan 11, 2018 10:06:48 GMT
Susan not really being the Doctor's granddaughter is absolute rubbish so I'm happy to jettison whatever else we have to to be rid of that idea.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 10:14:17 GMT
They're entitled to their opinion. I still remember their New Adventures comics and I've always had a soft-spot for the series. They get a much harder time than they really deserve and like a lot of these things, it all rolls down in waves. Just look at Big Finish over the years. Zagreus shunted every non-Big Finish story into a separate continuity, A Company of Friends united them altogether. Helicon Prime brought in Series 6B, The Black Hole offered another explanation. Did the Sixth Doctor regenerate in Spiral Scratch or The Brink of Death (*cough* shout-out to Time's Champion *cough*)? In the great tug-of-war that is canon, I think it's all relative to the times. It seems a bit churlish to wipe out roughly sixty stories just because of two incongruities. That'd be a bit like wiping out the Moffat era's roughly sixty/seventy episodes because exception was taken to Listen, it makes no sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 10:40:21 GMT
They're entitled to their opinion. I still remember their New Adventures comics and I've always had a soft-spot for the series. They get a much harder time than they really deserve and like a lot of these things, it all rolls down in waves. Just look at Big Finish over the years. Zagreus shunted every non-Big Finish story into a separate continuity, A Company of Friends united them altogether. Helicon Prime brought in Series 6B, The Black Hole offered another explanation. Did the Sixth Doctor regenerate in Spiral Scratch or The Brink of Death (*cough* shout-out to Time's Champion *cough*)? In the great tug-of-war that is canon, I think it's all relative to the times. It seems a bit churlish to wipe out roughly sixty stories just because of two incongruities. That'd be a bit like wiping out the Moffat era's roughly sixty/seventy episodes because exception was taken to Listen, it makes no sense. Well they did it with star wars!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 11:49:37 GMT
They're entitled to their opinion. I still remember their New Adventures comics and I've always had a soft-spot for the series. They get a much harder time than they really deserve and like a lot of these things, it all rolls down in waves. Just look at Big Finish over the years. Zagreus shunted every non-Big Finish story into a separate continuity, A Company of Friends united them altogether. Helicon Prime brought in Series 6B, The Black Hole offered another explanation. Did the Sixth Doctor regenerate in Spiral Scratch or The Brink of Death (*cough* shout-out to Time's Champion *cough*)? In the great tug-of-war that is canon, I think it's all relative to the times. It seems a bit churlish to wipe out roughly sixty stories just because of two incongruities. That'd be a bit like wiping out the Moffat era's roughly sixty/seventy episodes because exception was taken to Listen, it makes no sense. Well they did it with star wars! True, true, still a bit miffed about that tbh. I understand why they did it -- they had something like thirty years worth of canon in between -- but it still feels like a cheat. That's the thing I like about Who. The majority of the time, it's a soft reset like Terror of the Autons or Remembrance of the Daleks. I don't think you really need more than that, a lot of really excellent eras on the show were able to step out of their predecessor's shadow without having to kill their predecessor. The annihilate option feels a bit like a Carthaginian peace: they make a desert and call it canon. I'm a big believer in the non-binary choice when it comes to these sorts of things. I think the Doctor had parents and was loomed into Lungbarrow both. One likely led to the other, we've no idea who else's genetic data was inputted into the machine (the Other sure, but likely his mother and father too). The complexity makes him all the more intriguing and unique. It's fun.
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Post by jasonward on Jan 11, 2018 12:42:54 GMT
In DWM, awhile back, DWM stated that the New Adventures contiunty no longer applies, but is a 'separate (and equally valid) continuity'. How do you feel about it no longer being canon? I have no feelings one way or the other really, except to say, since when were DWM the arbiters of what is canon and what is not?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 12:44:43 GMT
I meant Steven Moffatt
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 11, 2018 12:48:52 GMT
Now this is what Ive always thought. That the VNA/MA's are one continuity. The EDA'S/PDA'S out another and TV,DWM Comics, NSA's and Big Finish are Prime Continuity.
So to me it works
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Post by jasonward on Jan 11, 2018 14:25:31 GMT
I meant Steven Moffatt Hmm, in which case, I would say, his statements became indicative rather than definitive the moment he stopped being show runner. But I think in reality, you (as in you, me and all other fans) pick and choose what is canon and what isn't and that one persons canon is another person heresy. Lungbarrow will always remain canon to me (the idea of Looms just appeals to me too much to ditch), but there many aspects of the NA's I'm not so sure about, and Steven's comments and choices have no impact on what I think of as canon.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Jan 11, 2018 14:46:32 GMT
Anything that tosses the Lungbarrow nonsense out the door is fine by me.
That said, I really don't get hung up on continuity. And to be honest, the NA's were hit and miss - more miss as many of the books were terrible at best.
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Post by stcoop on Jan 11, 2018 15:34:05 GMT
In DWM, awhile back, Steven Moffatt stated that the New Adventures contiunty no longer applies, but is a 'separate (and equally valid) continuity'. How do you feel about it no longer being canon? When was they considered Canon? The original series finished before they started and they weren't considered relevant when it came back.
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 11, 2018 15:41:23 GMT
I don't see any benefit to someone coming out and saying X is no longer canon. Say what you like about RTD, but I think he made the cannier decision. Pillage the NA for ideas that work, but don't announce an official policy regarding canonicity. What's the point to it?
You could argue that the televised Human Nature effectively invalidated the NA version as far as canon goes, because Silver Nemesis/Remembrance of the Daleks notwithstanding, the Doctor would hardly fail to notice that he had the same adventure twice.
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Post by newt5996 on Jan 11, 2018 16:24:19 GMT
I say it doesn't matter, it's all canon in some way. I mean if the DWM comics, Big Finish, and the New Series Adventures books can fit into canon, why not the Virgin stuff and the PDAs/EDAs or even TV comics? Easy explanation being that the Time War caused so many rips in time, time changes so much that at times it is and at times it isn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 16:57:59 GMT
Anything that tosses the Lungbarrow nonsense out the door is fine by me. That said, I really don't get hung up on continuity. And to be honest, the NA's were hit and miss - more miss as many of the books were terrible at best. Yep, Lungbarrow is the worst addition to Doctor Who mythology ever!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 16:58:08 GMT
Everything is canon because there is no canon in Doctor Who- it's all a chaotic mess of rights issues and licensing.
Stevie Moffat can't actually decide what's 'canon' or not himself anyway, what he meant was that he treats the NAs as a separate entitiy as they contradict many things in the modern show.
But then again, Chrissie Chibnall may have a different view. He may excise the whole of Big Finish from 'canon' in a DWM column if he wants to. Doesn't mean BF is nonsense we can just ignore. It just means that, to him, it has no impact on the New Series continuity as he is writing it.
Which is as it should be really.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jan 11, 2018 17:03:53 GMT
I'll cautiously say that, a la Star Wars Rebels at the moment, if TV or BF choose to mine from the NAs then fair enough, otherwise they are variant realities due to the Time War for me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 17:47:39 GMT
Bloomin' 'canon'. It's just there to give some fans something else to argue about.
'Ah but you see, the Sixth Doctor cannot possibly have met the Valeyard yet because he is still wearing his blue tie; if we set this story before the Second Doctor met Zoe then it contradicts something that happened in a 1992 NA novel ...'
I can't bring myself to care. As @seaniesbeanies stated above, it isn't really for Mr Moffat to say what is and what isn't canon, because so many people have so many ideas as to what counts and what doesn't. I find it preposterous that Big Finish wasn't considered 'canon' by some people until The Eighth Doctor name-checked certain BF companions on television. If people want to deny themselves the pleasure of Big Finish because they don't allow it to fit in with their ideas, then they lose out, in my view.
As for the NAs - I never read any. I was put off by the 'adult' approach (the fate of Dodo being a good example). But I wouldn't say the stories don't 'count', they just aren't for me.
Anyway, I'm off to listen to The Boy that Time Forgot!
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jan 11, 2018 17:59:33 GMT
In DWM, awhile back, Steven Moffatt stated that the New Adventures contiunty no longer applies, but is a 'separate (and equally valid) continuity'. How do you feel about it no longer being canon? Well, he used it when it was necessary. Referencing past companions in Night of the Doctor.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 11, 2018 18:15:59 GMT
Er....
1) when did anybody ever confirm that anything other than what was on tv counted as canon? ("Night of the Doctor" only establishes character names, remember) 2) who cares what Moffat thought at some point in the past, when he's no longer in charge?
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jan 11, 2018 18:32:06 GMT
Er.... 1) when did anybody ever confirm that anything other than what was on tv counted as canon? ("Night of the Doctor" only establishes character names, remember) That's my point. He's picking and choosing whats canon, and then saying none of it is canon.
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