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Post by J.A. Prentice on Feb 24, 2018 4:52:59 GMT
From memory, I don't think he ever said he didn't like writing for the Daleks, but found them difficult to write for. He's certainly not wrong. I think -- and like most of what I say, it's only a working theory, but I think -- that the Daleks are most effective when they have something to bounce off of. A dramatic foil. The Ptolems, Lestersons, Waterfields and Mavik Chens of these stories. They're a lot like horror film monsters in a way. Slashers are only as interesting as their victims. Part of what makes the Xenomorph in Alien so effective is the reactions of the Nostromo crew between its killings. Jubilee, for instance, is extremely effective because it's not only is it about a Dalek gaining a conscience (sort of), but it's also about this hideously grotesque society that's been warped by their presence. Maybe we need a touch more of that? I think you’re absolutely right. My two concepts for directions the Daleks could be taken are either to introduce different Dalek factions and “characters” who the audience can latch onto or to do a somewhat topical story using governments making alliances with Daleks as a metaphor for politicians’ tendency to ally themselves to extremist groups to preserve their power. On a more cosmetic level, I think a variety in Dalek colouring is a good idea. Soldier Daleks should be battered Genesis grey, but ruling Daleks should be cleaner, bolder colours. This could definitely help with treating some Daleks as “individuals” and letting the audience single them out.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 10:53:05 GMT
Soldier Daleks should be battered Genesis grey, but ruling Daleks should be cleaner, bolder colours. Something like Black and Gold perhaps?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 11:15:36 GMT
Something that bothered me from the Eleventh era was The Daleks being an active force in the universe again and The Doctor does NOTHING about it. War trauma or not, The Doctor's inaction is completely out of character.
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Post by mark687 on Feb 24, 2018 12:13:35 GMT
Something that bothered me from the Eleventh era was The Daleks being an active force in the universe again and The Doctor does NOTHING about it. War trauma or not, The Doctor's inaction is completely out of character. Yes Oswin's Dalek Databank Wipe and the Doctor's apparent inaction afterward was lazy writing indeed.
Regards
mark687
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Post by glutamodo on Feb 24, 2018 13:24:01 GMT
My thought/question is... with the Daleks and other monster voice-overs, will Briggs continue to be employed? I imagine. There aren't any other major voice artists associated with the show, and it'd be a money saver. Well, I'd hope so. But you never know just how far Chibnall will want to stray from established conventions. Also, the glare from Briggs' chrome-dome might scare him off.
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Post by mrperson on Feb 24, 2018 17:03:46 GMT
Personally I think the Daleks need to go away for a few series. I love them, but I’m sick of seeing them in every series. There is nothing special or surprising about them appearing anymore. Give them a break and use the time to come up with a strong story direction for them. The thing for me now with Daleks is not so much how often they've appeared, its that there needs to be some form of resolution to the Time War, such that The Daleks would no longer immediately go at it again when Timelords appear. The way I'd like to see this resolved is a Dalek civil war, brought about by genetic mutation or perhaps by a set of time travelling Daleks appearing out of the vortex after being trapped there during The Time War and for whatever reason refusing to submit to the orders of the current Dalek Emporer, perhaps because they have their own Dalek Emporer with them, or perhaps Davros puts in another appearing with has Dalek MkII with him. These two Dalek factions would immediately see each other as the primary enemy they have and in effect leave the Timelords to normalise their civilisation. At this point, it would take some good writing to have the explanation be a relevant part of a story rather than feel like a clunky info dump. The Time War should have restarted somewhere between Time of the Doctor and Hell Bent. After all, the entire "Silence" arc was about stopping the Timelords from finding out which universe to return to. But they did find out because Clara gave the little speech in Time. Then they returned off-screen and..... .....inexplicably, nothing happened. If there was to be an explanation, I'd have expected it in or around Hell Bent. But the show went on another season without blinking, all the business about preventing the horrors of the Time War from returning absent.
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Post by jasonward on Feb 24, 2018 17:10:37 GMT
The thing for me now with Daleks is not so much how often they've appeared, its that there needs to be some form of resolution to the Time War, such that The Daleks would no longer immediately go at it again when Timelords appear. The way I'd like to see this resolved is a Dalek civil war, brought about by genetic mutation or perhaps by a set of time travelling Daleks appearing out of the vortex after being trapped there during The Time War and for whatever reason refusing to submit to the orders of the current Dalek Emporer, perhaps because they have their own Dalek Emporer with them, or perhaps Davros puts in another appearing with has Dalek MkII with him. These two Dalek factions would immediately see each other as the primary enemy they have and in effect leave the Timelords to normalise their civilisation. At this point, it would take some good writing to have the explanation be a relevant part of a story rather than feel like a clunky info dump. The Time War should have restarted somewhere between Time of the Doctor and Hell Bent. After all, the entire "Silence" arc was about stopping the Timelords from finding out which universe to return to. But they did find out because Clara gave the little speech in Time. Then they returned off-screen and..... .....inexplicably, nothing happened. If there was to be an explanation, I'd have expected it in or around Hell Bent. But the show went on another season without blinking, all the business about preventing the horrors of the Time War from returning absent. Exactly, this is my point, The Daleks and Timelords in the currently stated situation should be actively waring with each other, this has to be stopped somehow, there has to be a reason for it, not the current "they don't seem to have noticed each other yet", but the other thing is, as best as I can tell, the Timelords are at a serious disadvantage, still recovering from war, whereas the Daleks are back at full power, if Daleks attacked now, it would be all over for The Timelords.
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Post by elgranto on Feb 24, 2018 23:00:07 GMT
Since I'm bored, here's a list of every Dalek appearance since 2005: 2005 - "Dalek," "Bad Wolf"/"The Parting of the Ways." 2006 - "Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday." 2007 - "Daleks in Manhattan"/"Evolution of the Daleks." 2008 - "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End." 2009 - "The Waters of Mars" (cameo). 2010 - "Victory of the Daleks," "The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang." 2011 - "The Wedding of River Song" (cameo). 2012 - "Asylum of the Daleks." 2013 - "The Day of the Doctor." "The Time of the Doctor." 2014 - "Into the Dalek." 2015 - "The Magician's Apprentice"/"The Witch's Familiar." "Hell Bent" (cameo). 2016 - "Friend from the Future" (Pearl Mackie announcement video). 2017 - "The Pilot" (cameo). "Twice Upon a Time" (cameo). So that's 24 appearances over 12 years. They're definitely in need of a break.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 25, 2018 1:20:34 GMT
So that's 24 appearances over 12 years. They're definitely in need of a break. True, but minus the six slashes, five cameos and 1 announcement video, that's more like 12 actual appearances in 12 years and only 1 actual appearance since 2014? I'm probably about as fond of ticking boxes as anybody but somehow I must feel a little bit short-changed by mere cameos. I think the Daleks must be about due for a good putting in their place? They might forget The Doctor, Gallifrey, and temporal warfare itself but I have kind of a hard time to believe they'd just forget about ex-ter-min-at-ing whole civilizations, it's one of their favorite hobbies
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 1:45:19 GMT
I imagine. There aren't any other major voice artists associated with the show, and it'd be a money saver. Well, I'd hope so. But you never know just how far Chibnall will want to stray from established conventions. Also, the glare from Briggs' chrome-dome might scare him off. Nick Briggs is The Daleks for an entire generation and the viewing public and he's been heard in the role in a greater frequency then his predesscors. He's the definitive Dalek at this point. And while the Cybermen are more flexible in this regard, you'd be remiss to ignore a talent like Nick Briggs - no-one quite embodies a Doctor Who monster like Nick Briggs does, building on and pushing the original performance forward.
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Post by glutamodo on Feb 25, 2018 2:12:01 GMT
Oh, I totally agree with you. I was just expressing perhaps a little bit of fear that Chibnall would not see it that way!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 10:25:01 GMT
He's certainly not wrong. I think -- and like most of what I say, it's only a working theory, but I think -- that the Daleks are most effective when they have something to bounce off of. A dramatic foil. The Ptolems, Lestersons, Waterfields and Mavik Chens of these stories. They're a lot like horror film monsters in a way. Slashers are only as interesting as their victims. Part of what makes the Xenomorph in Alien so effective is the reactions of the Nostromo crew between its killings. Jubilee, for instance, is extremely effective because it's not only is it about a Dalek gaining a conscience (sort of), but it's also about this hideously grotesque society that's been warped by their presence. Maybe we need a touch more of that? I think you’re absolutely right. My two concepts for directions the Daleks could be taken are either to introduce different Dalek factions and “characters” who the audience can latch onto or to do a somewhat topical story using governments making alliances with Daleks as a metaphor for politicians’ tendency to ally themselves to extremist groups to preserve their power. On a more cosmetic level, I think a variety in Dalek colouring is a good idea. Soldier Daleks should be battered Genesis grey, but ruling Daleks should be cleaner, bolder colours. This could definitely help with treating some Daleks as “individuals” and letting the audience single them out. Something that bothered me from the Eleventh era was The Daleks being an active force in the universe again and The Doctor does NOTHING about it. War trauma or not, The Doctor's inaction is completely out of character. Just linking those two posts together, I thought the New Dalek Paradigm fading into the background was a bit of a shame. Wonky redesigns aside (a Dalek should never look like it's made of plastic), it could've been interesting to see them at various stages of developing their empire, the Doctor's interventions each time only managing to stall them a la Planet of the Daleks. While the Doctor is unravelling the mystery of the Ponds, the Daleks have been doing their own investigative work in the background... Maybe revitalising Skaro or replenishing their ranks using new/stolen technology. With the Paradigm's distinctive Daleks, it could've ended up being really interesting.
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Post by jasonward on Feb 25, 2018 13:35:54 GMT
Well, I'd hope so. But you never know just how far Chibnall will want to stray from established conventions. Also, the glare from Briggs' chrome-dome might scare him off. Nick Briggs is The Daleks for an entire generation and the viewing public and he's been heard in the role in a greater frequency then his predesscors. He's the definitive Dalek at this point. And while the Cybermen are more flexible in this regard, you'd be remiss to ignore a talent like Nick Briggs - no-one quite embodies a Doctor Who monster like Nick Briggs does, building on and pushing the original performance forward. Whilst on one hand Nick Briggs is undoubtedly the voice of Daleks, I suspect, so long as they didn't mess it up totally, I think Nick could be replaced by someone else and outside of those you'd expect to notice (BF fans) I suspect few would know or care.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 13:51:44 GMT
Nick Briggs is The Daleks for an entire generation and the viewing public and he's been heard in the role in a greater frequency then his predesscors. He's the definitive Dalek at this point. And while the Cybermen are more flexible in this regard, you'd be remiss to ignore a talent like Nick Briggs - no-one quite embodies a Doctor Who monster like Nick Briggs does, building on and pushing the original performance forward. Whilst on one hand Nick Briggs is undoubtedly the voice of Daleks, I suspect, so long as they didn't mess it up totally, I think Nick could be replaced by someone else and outside of those you'd expect to notice (BF fans) I suspect few would know or care. Yeah, exactly - the idea that we can recast incarnations of Doctors on TV or audio but that Nick is irreplaceable doesn't hold water.
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Post by mark687 on Feb 25, 2018 14:13:29 GMT
Whilst on one hand Nick Briggs is undoubtedly the voice of Daleks, I suspect, so long as they didn't mess it up totally, I think Nick could be replaced by someone else and outside of those you'd expect to notice (BF fans) I suspect few would know or care. Yeah, exactly - the idea that we can recast incarnations of Doctors on TV or audio but that Nick is irreplaceable doesn't hold water. Family shopping/ cinema trips might prove awkward if that did happen
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 23:04:24 GMT
Whilst on one hand Nick Briggs is undoubtedly the voice of Daleks, I suspect, so long as they didn't mess it up totally, I think Nick could be replaced by someone else and outside of those you'd expect to notice (BF fans) I suspect few would know or care. Yeah, exactly - the idea that we can recast incarnations of Doctors on TV or audio but that Nick is irreplaceable doesn't hold water.
Strongly disagree. While the general public might not know hsi name, Nick Briggs has left an indeliable stamp on the Daleks - the combination of his childhood fascination with the Daleks, being a long life Doctor Who fan and a VERY good actor has lead to the brilliant faceted performance that builds on Peter Hawkins, David Graham and Roy Skeleton's performances while still making it his own. Never have the Daleks sounded as hateful or tormented or given the astounding depth that Nick Briggs gives them. You don't mess with a performance like that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 23:21:01 GMT
The Daleks are iconic obviously but I'm not sure - as Jason says - if you got a capable actor with the same voice modulators that the general public would notice and most importantly, care all that much that there was a new actor doing it. If whoever else took over sounded as much like the public thinks an average Dalek sounds only fandom would pick up on it. I don't see why Nick would be able to build on the work of Peter Hawkins, David Graham and Roy Skeleton but no-one could build on his work. The Daleks - voices et al - were icons while Nick was still in nappies. Again, this isn't to disparage his work at all but it's not something that couldn't be approximated.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 23:30:07 GMT
The Daleks are iconic obviously but I'm not sure - as Jason says - if you got a capable actor with the same voice modulators that the general public would notice and most importantly, care all that much that there was a new actor doing it. If whoever else took over sounded as much like the public thinks an average Dalek sounds only fandom would pick up on it. I don't see why Nick would be able to build on the work of Peter Hawkins, David Graham and Roy Skeleton but no-one could build on his work. The Daleks - voices et al - were icons while Nick was still in nappies. Again, this isn't to disparage his work at all but it's not something that couldn't be approximated.
To the general public, Nick's distinct tones have become instriciable part of their conception of a Dalek for the last thirteen years. I think his absense would be noticiable and I'm not sure how Nicholas Briggs would feel if another actor tried to imitate him!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 26, 2018 0:10:59 GMT
Nick is a voice actor with a long body of work on the show and someone who by all accounts has a good relationship with the new showrunner, so while Nick is of course replaceable, nothing we know says he has or will be. And I think anyone who has listened to Nick over the decades on the podcast will know if Nick has been replaced as the voice of the Daleks on the show, well, we would know about it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2018 0:20:17 GMT
Well, we're not actually debating if he's been let go or not Just the hypothetical of if he could be replaced which, as you say, of course he could.
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