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Post by sherlock on Feb 22, 2018 22:52:02 GMT
The Daleks are a mainstay of the show, so with Chibnall at the healm, what would we like to see done with them?
Personally I'd like their random cameos stopped, so when they appear they have a significant impact and can dominate a story themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 22:53:12 GMT
A (good) redesign.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 22:59:22 GMT
Kill them off. Most ineffectual baddies ever!
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Post by jasonward on Feb 22, 2018 23:02:09 GMT
Hmmmm, Daleks need to be shown as evil monster enslavers that they are, showing an evil Dalek empire, perhaps concentrating on The Doctor liberating a planet, but knowing they continue to do more of the same across many other planets.
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Post by jasonward on Feb 22, 2018 23:02:47 GMT
Kill them off. Most ineffectual baddies ever! Isn't that true of all badies in Who? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 23:05:30 GMT
Kill them off. Most ineffectual baddies ever! Isn't that true of all badies in Who? No. The baddies always lose but because the Daleks have had so many appearances then they are the most ineffectual. At least have them kill a companion or something really dramatic with long term consequences. |
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Post by ollychops on Feb 22, 2018 23:14:35 GMT
I’m fine with them keeping the bronze Time War Daleks. It’s a good design, but they need a break. The cameos from them in TWORS, Hell Bent and The Pilot had me rolling my eyes more than anything, and I feel like Into the Dalek was nothing more than to have Twelve face the Daleks early in his run - having them take a break and show up again in The Magician’s Apprentice/The Witch’s Familiar would have been more effective, I think.
Have them return in a big story - maybe as the villains in the finale of Thirteen’s second series? Bring them back and make them dangerous and threatening. After that, only use them sparsely. Don’t do a Dalek story just purely to do a Dalek story.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 22, 2018 23:24:31 GMT
I am completely unfazed by the idea of the show giving the Daleks a rest for a series or two. The only way I would want to see them soon(ish) is if Chibnall and his team have a great story for them that raises the stakes for the characters, and for the Daleks. It is tough to do something interesting & different with baddies that are so iconic and so locked into their identities. It is one of those cases where I wish the BBC team looked to Big Finish and Nick. A 3 or 4 episode adaptation of Dalek Empire would be of great interest to me. Anyway, while I realize the show probably will do this, I would hope they don't bring the Daleks back just to bring the Daleks back.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 23:55:16 GMT
I’m fine with them keeping the bronze Time War Daleks. It’s a good design, but they need a break. The cameos from them in TWORS, Hell Bent and The Pilot had me rolling my eyes more than anything, and I feel like Into the Dalek was nothing more than to have Twelve face the Daleks early in his run - having them take a break and show up again in The Magician’s Apprentice/The Witch’s Familiar would have been more effective, I think. Disagree. Twelve's rougher around the edges persona was ALWAYS going to be a risk for the audience and there needed some familiarity for it to go over and even then, they didn't play it safe. I'm kind of okay with the Daleks appearing from series to series. Doctor Who is an event series and in a VERY different position then in the original run and there is a lot more competitive media out there for kid's attention nowadays. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 2:09:43 GMT
This might be one of the strangest sentences I've ever typed, but having the Daleks return to their roots could benefit them greatly. Not Skaro, but their role as ruthless killers. The nature of the Moffat era meant that they couldn't kill in any meaningful way and when you take that away, well... You don't have a Dalek anymore. Both Power and Death to the Daleks robbed them of their agency, and each time they found a way to exercise their base instinct to destroy. The former ends with the slaughter of the Vulcan colony and the latter had them devise far cruder weapons to get around the power drain. They're deceptively clever and singleminded in their motivation. Beyond that... Hmm...  There are any number of ways you could take it, they're a very flexible adversary. |
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Post by SG. on Feb 23, 2018 2:45:24 GMT
Add some colour, maybe? I remember Dalek Sec and the Supreme Dalek (Dalek Supreme? They’re two different things and I don’t which one’s which) being really cool just because they were different. The Dalek Paradigm was flawed but I liked the colour schemes (ditch the whole colour=tank thing, that was dumb).
Also, just get back to them being ruthless killers, and don’t just destroy them all at the end of the story like they were nothing. I loved the moment in The Magician’s Apprentice where they were playing with Clara, wanting her to run so they’d get more satisfaction from it. That’s a great characterisation that defines what the Daleks should be.
And ALSO, get a writer who actually wants to write them. Moffat’s a great writer, but he’s said before that he doesn’t like writing for Daleks, and it shows. Compare this to RTD - the first two series finales of NuWho has his passion in their DNA, and he got them exactly right. Going down the bottom of the Game Station to kill the humans just because they happened to be there, wiping the Cybermen away like dirt off a boot - DING DING DING, winner winner chicken dinner.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 3:09:36 GMT
And ALSO, get a writer who actually wants to write them. Moffat’s a great writer, but he’s said before that he doesn’t like writing for Daleks, and it shows. Compare this to RTD - the first two series finales of NuWho has his passion in their DNA, and he got them exactly right. Going down the bottom of the Game Station to kill the humans just because they happened to be there, wiping the Cybermen away like dirt off a boot - DING DING DING, winner winner chicken dinner. From memory, I don't think he ever said he didn't like writing for the Daleks, but found them difficult to write for. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 7:36:56 GMT
Have them "win" more often, in fact quite a lot of times. This doesn't mean the show needs to show The Doctor lose but whatever The Daleks bigger objective is, they should succeed. Just don't make it something universe-ending. Small goals. The Doctor's "victory" can be, like Genesis, just slowing them down or just saving a few people. But don't have them lose all the time.
I'd also revert them to having bigger goals than dropping everything when The Doctor's name is said. Moffat set this up in Asylum when they forgot The Doctor but that's never been a plot point again. Shame.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 8:09:44 GMT
And ALSO, get a writer who actually wants to write them. Moffat’s a great writer, but he’s said before that he doesn’t like writing for Daleks, and it shows. Compare this to RTD - the first two series finales of NuWho has his passion in their DNA, and he got them exactly right. Going down the bottom of the Game Station to kill the humans just because they happened to be there, wiping the Cybermen away like dirt off a boot - DING DING DING, winner winner chicken dinner. From memory, I don't think he ever said he didn't like writing for the Daleks, but found them difficult to write for. He's certainly not wrong. I think -- and like most of what I say, it's only a working theory, but I think -- that the Daleks are most effective when they have something to bounce off of. A dramatic foil. The Ptolems, Lestersons, Waterfields and Mavik Chens of these stories. They're a lot like horror film monsters in a way. Slashers are only as interesting as their victims. Part of what makes the Xenomorph in Alien so effective is the reactions of the Nostromo crew between its killings. Jubilee, for instance, is extremely effective because it's not only is it about a Dalek gaining a conscience (sort of), but it's also about this hideously grotesque society that's been warped by their presence. Maybe we need a touch more of that? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 9:53:05 GMT
From memory, I don't think he ever said he didn't like writing for the Daleks, but found them difficult to write for. He's certainly not wrong. I think -- and like most of what I say, it's only a working theory, but I think -- that the Daleks are most effective when they have something to bounce off of. A dramatic foil. The Ptolems, Lestersons, Waterfields and Mavik Chens of these stories. They're a lot like horror film monsters in a way. Slashers are only as interesting as their victims. Part of what makes the Xenomorph in Alien so effective is the reactions of the Nostromo crew between its killings. Jubilee, for instance, is extremely effective because it's not only is it about a Dalek gaining a conscience (sort of), but it's also about this hideously grotesque society that's been warped by their presence. Maybe we need a touch more of that? Maybe Chibnall will strip them of their empire? I do love a desperate nasty Dalek. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 10:16:21 GMT
I think, given there seems to be a 'Daleks every series' contract, that Steven Moffat has been pretty restrained in his use of the creatures. They've had four 'big' stories, two of which (The Witch's Familiar and Asylum of the Daleks) were excellent, inventive use of them. He also resisted the usual 'Daleks invade' stories that featured in earlier stories like Bad Wolf and The Stolen Earth. So, we cannot accuse him of over-familiarity.
This means that by the time Jodie arrives, we won't have had a 'proper' Dalek story for three years, incredible as it may seem. RTD used to say that every series of Doctor Who is the first for a new generation of children, so bizarrely, there may be some youngsters out there comparatively unfamiliar with them. @wolfie53's suggestion of returning them to their roots somewhat is something I'd quite like to see. Masses of the metal blighters storming over landscapes and familiar landmarks exterminating everything. A story like Big Finish's Enemy of the Daleks would be good, I thin, to show them at their ruthless best. Plenty of noise, shrieking Daleks, effects - lovely.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Feb 23, 2018 10:25:49 GMT
A decent story would help.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 10:37:54 GMT
I think, given there seems to be a 'Daleks every series' contract, that Steven Moffat has been pretty restrained in his use of the creatures. They've had four 'big' stories, two of which ( The Witch's Familiar and Asylum of the Daleks) were excellent, inventive use of them. He also resisted the usual 'Daleks invade' stories that featured in earlier stories like Bad Wolf and The Stolen Earth. So, we cannot accuse him of over-familiarity. This means that by the time Jodie arrives, we won't have had a 'proper' Dalek story for three years, incredible as it may seem. RTD used to say that every series of Doctor Who is the first for a new generation of children, so bizarrely, there may be some youngsters out there comparatively unfamiliar with them. @wolfie53 's suggestion of returning them to their roots somewhat is something I'd quite like to see. Masses of the metal blighters storming over landscapes and familiar landmarks exterminating everything. A story like Big Finish's Enemy of the Daleks would be good, I thin, to show them at their ruthless best. Plenty of noise, shrieking Daleks, effects - lovely. The rumour that the Daleks are contractually obligiated to appear every year has never been proven and I kind of wish people would stop taking it as gospel. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 10:53:14 GMT
A decent story would help. Like Planet of the Daleks, you mean? |
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Feb 23, 2018 12:25:17 GMT
I’m fine with them keeping the bronze Time War Daleks. It’s a good design, but they need a break. The cameos from them in TWORS, Hell Bent and The Pilot had me rolling my eyes more than anything, and I feel like Into the Dalek was nothing more than to have Twelve face the Daleks early in his run - having them take a break and show up again in The Magician’s Apprentice/The Witch’s Familiar would have been more effective, I think. Disagree. Twelve's rougher around the edges persona was ALWAYS going to be a risk for the audience and there needed some familiarity for it to go over and even then, they didn't play it safe. I'm kind of okay with the Daleks appearing from series to series. Doctor Who is an event series and in a VERY different position then in the original run and there is a lot more competitive media out there for kid's attention nowadays. Lots of logic in this. |
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There are any number of ways you could take it, they're a very flexible adversary.
