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Post by sherlock on Apr 16, 2018 12:53:22 GMT
Changes I would make: -Lose the Doctor's hostility towards Danny, I can understand what they were trying to do but it just made the Doctor look nasty -Reveal Missy was in the Vault sooner and have her and the Doctor talk through the glass cell, I just fell there's more potential there than the 'What's in the Vault?' Mystery
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 12:55:58 GMT
The other problem is I don't think Clara wants a relationship in the 1st place or if she dose all on her terms, I think they both start it when they're in the wrong head space.
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mark687
mark687
Eh, I think she's a mess and their meeting reminds her of her parents and when she get's to know him, she likes the idea of a relationship and she doesn't really have the life experience to say, hey, this might not be the best thing for her or Danny, either. I don't think Danny was ready, either and should have probably broken it off, as well, but he does handle their relationship with a lot more maturity then Clara does.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 16, 2018 12:59:00 GMT
I HAVE 3 times and NO Way is he as good as Shredian. In fact you don't get that class of performance in a Moffatt Companion till Pearl as Bill!
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mark687
Nope, I respectfully disagree. Samauel Anderson is great. In comedy shows he's decent in Doctor Who as Danny, no dreadful, his Orsen was ok.
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mark687
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Post by mark687 on Apr 16, 2018 13:50:55 GMT
The other problem is I don't think Clara wants a relationship in the 1st place or if she dose all on her terms, I think they both start it when they're in the wrong head space.
Regards
mark687
mark687
Eh, I think she's a mess and their meeting reminds her of her parents and when she get's to know him, she likes the idea of a relationship and she doesn't really have the life experience to say, hey, this might not be the best thing for her or Danny, either. I don't think Danny was ready, either and should have probably broken it off, as well, but he does handle their relationship with a lot more maturity then Clara does. But this kind of where the Real life drama element fails:
The Restaurant scene in Listen where he's trying to explain and she's distracted and you can see his tension build up, if that had been a real life drama he may well have hit her if spacesuit hadn't turned up that's an awful impression to leave the audience with in a family Science Fiction show..
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mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 14:01:34 GMT
Eh, I think she's a mess and their meeting reminds her of her parents and when she get's to know him, she likes the idea of a relationship and she doesn't really have the life experience to say, hey, this might not be the best thing for her or Danny, either. I don't think Danny was ready, either and should have probably broken it off, as well, but he does handle their relationship with a lot more maturity then Clara does. But this kind of where the Real life drama element fails:
The Restaurant scene in Listen where he's trying to explain and she's distracted and you can see his tension build up, if that had been a real life drama he may well have hit her if spacesuit hadn't turned up that's an awful impression to leave the audience with.
Regards
mark687
I don't get any such impression from that scene, at all. He's upset and flustered and freaked out, but there's no sense of physical violence. Yeah, he does pull back on his military training a bit, but she's a new person he's opened himself up to who is part of his new life and he thinks she's a crazy stalker.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 16, 2018 14:14:21 GMT
But this kind of where the Real life drama element fails:
The Restaurant scene in Listen where he's trying to explain and she's distracted and you can see his tension build up, if that had been a real life drama he may well have hit her if spacesuit hadn't turned up that's an awful impression to leave the audience with.
Regards
mark687
I don't get any such impression from that scene, at all. He's upset and flustered and freaked out, but there's no sense of physical violence. Yeah, he does pull back on his military training a bit, but she's a new person he's opened himself up to who is part of his new life and he thinks she's a crazy stalker. Sorry but I found it extremely threatening and stalker like on his part.
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mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 14:51:07 GMT
I don't get any such impression from that scene, at all. He's upset and flustered and freaked out, but there's no sense of physical violence. Yeah, he does pull back on his military training a bit, but she's a new person he's opened himself up to who is part of his new life and he thinks she's a crazy stalker. Sorry but I found it extremely threatening and stalker like on his part.
Regards
mark687
Rewatching the scene, I can see what you mean. But Clara knows things about Danny no-one could know (he's legally changed his name) and given that Danny is trying to transition back into civilian life, he leans back into a military mind set to deal with it. Just imagine if you were on a date with someone and they casually mentionced a name that no-one in your life now knows. You'd be freaked out and scared (especially since it's hinted that Danny's adoptive parents weren't great) and it activates a response in Danny inherent to all of us: confront or escape. Most of us would make our excuses, but Danny's being trained to deal with problems head on. Given that it's hinted that Danny's adoptive parents weren't great, hearing that name added to him dealing with his trauma, adding to his response. Yeah, it's a misstep and a huge oversight by Moffatt, but it's rare one for me in his otherwise excellent treatment in series eight.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 16, 2018 14:57:28 GMT
Sorry but I found it extremely threatening and stalker like on his part.
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mark687
Rewatching the scene, I can see what you mean. But Clara knows things about Danny no-one could know (he's legally changed his name) and given that Danny is trying to transition back into civilian life, he leans back into a military mind set to deal with it. Just imagine if you were on a date with someone and they casually mentionced a name that no-one in your life now knows. You'd be freaked out and scared (especially since it's hinted that Danny's adoptive parents weren't great) and it activates a response in Danny inherent to all of us: confront or escape. Most of us would make our excuses, but Danny's being trained to deal with problems head on. Given that it's hinted that Danny's adoptive parents weren't great, hearing that name added to him dealing with his trauma, adding to his response. Yeah, it's a misstep, but it's rare one for me in his otherwise excellent treatment in series eight. Its a crucial misstep as is as David posted earlier the Doctor and Danny's extreme criticism of each other.
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mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 14:59:41 GMT
Rewatching the scene, I can see what you mean. But Clara knows things about Danny no-one could know (he's legally changed his name) and given that Danny is trying to transition back into civilian life, he leans back into a military mind set to deal with it. Just imagine if you were on a date with someone and they casually mentionced a name that no-one in your life now knows. You'd be freaked out and scared (especially since it's hinted that Danny's adoptive parents weren't great) and it activates a response in Danny inherent to all of us: confront or escape. Most of us would make our excuses, but Danny's being trained to deal with problems head on. Given that it's hinted that Danny's adoptive parents weren't great, hearing that name added to him dealing with his trauma, adding to his response. Yeah, it's a misstep, but it's rare one for me in his otherwise excellent treatment in series eight. Its a crucial misstep as is as David posted earlier the Doctor and Danny's extreme criticism of each other.
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mark687
Eh, I got the intention first time round. I know Clara get's a lot of hate, but is Danny really hated in fandom?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 15:07:53 GMT
Anyway, Mark, I don't know how long it's been since your last rewatch, but I'd suggest maybe doing another rewatch, because it seems that your a bit rusty in some areas (Danny isn't dour all the time and enjoys life).
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Post by mark687 on Apr 16, 2018 15:10:36 GMT
Its a crucial misstep as is as David posted earlier the Doctor and Danny's extreme criticism of each other.
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mark687
Eh, I got the intention first time round. So did I but you can't keep up an attitude of "I'm right your wrong" for a whole series when your both supposed to be good guys, and the final conciseness that Love isn't the emotion but is the commitment above all
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mark687
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Post by mark687 on Apr 16, 2018 15:14:03 GMT
Anyway, Mark, I don't know how long it's been since your last rewatch, but I'd suggest maybe doing another rewatch, because it seems that your a bit rusty in some areas (Danny isn't dour all the time and enjoys life). Last year actually and I'm currently enjoying a Series 10 re-watch at the moment.
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mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 15:18:52 GMT
Eh, I got the intention first time round. So did I but you can't keep up an attitude of "I'm right your wrong" for a whole series when your both supposed to be good guys, and the final conciseness that Love isn't the emotion but is the commitment above all
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mark687
But, they didn't. Clara told Danny she was done with The Doctor in Mummy on the Orient Express and then lied to The Doctor about breaking up with Danny They don't interact directly with each other again until Death in Heaven. I'm with you on the love is promise plot thread - I get what Moffatt was trying to say - that Danny mindset held onto his love for Clara, that part of him surrived regardless of what the Cybermen did to him and the melachony of that, of Danny's being Danny despite his struggles. You REALLY need to rewatch series eight before continuing this discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 15:19:36 GMT
Anyway, Mark, I don't know how long it's been since your last rewatch, but I'd suggest maybe doing another rewatch, because it seems that your a bit rusty in some areas (Danny isn't dour all the time and enjoys life). Last year actually and I'm currently enjoying a Series 10 re-watch at the moment.
Regards
mark687
Sorry, mate, but you need a refresher.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 15:20:29 GMT
Is Danny really hated in fandom?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 15:26:56 GMT
Remove the 9/11 imagery in The Zygon Invasion cliffhanger. It wasn't earnt.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 15:36:54 GMT
I think the main thing that troubles me about Sleep No More is just the idea behind it. Setting aside that Hollywood overused the found footage format (to the extent that I know younger people who won't watch The Blair Witch Project through a TV/film club I attend), I just don't get HOW you can do a Doctor Who story in that format. Having The Doctor being The Doctor and Clara's disconnect from ordinary life add to the tension, yeah, I get, but the format hits too hard for Doctor Who's family format. It can't really be done and we get the compromised version of it and that's what bothers me about it, more then even the Sandmen. And they bother me a lot!
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Post by mark687 on Apr 16, 2018 15:50:37 GMT
Last year actually and I'm currently enjoying a Series 10 re-watch at the moment.
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mark687
Sorry, mate, but you need a refresher. No I don't because the only things not covered (the kid and Orson) were unresolved waste of time because Jenna didn't want to leave and Moffatt ended Danny as he did.
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mark687
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 15:53:55 GMT
Sorry, mate, but you need a refresher. No I don't because the only thing haven't covered (the kid and Orson) were unresolved waste of time because Jenna didn't want to leave and Moffatt ended Danny as he did.
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mark687
Not to be rude, but I am pointing out things that you have clearly missed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 16:03:05 GMT
Is Danny really hated in fandom? Can't speak for all of fandom but I hated him... I thought Danny Pink was a pointless character and I couldn't stand him.
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