|
Post by elkawho on Jan 3, 2021 17:23:16 GMT
Unrelated to any of the talk about the ending... did anyone catch the reference to Vicious where Missy called Derek Jacobi "Gandalf's Husband"? I heard it and had no idea what it was in reference to. Of course, I laughed anyway.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jan 3, 2021 17:32:48 GMT
Unrelated to any of the talk about the ending... did anyone catch the reference to Vicious where Missy called Derek Jacobi "Gandalf's Husband"? I did and it got a good laugh from me! It’s a silly joke / reference but works well if you “get” it and if not it’s just one of those random things Missy says, so perfectly in character.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Jan 3, 2021 18:29:09 GMT
Finished it! My thought in a nutshell- this very much about the journey and how everybody gets there, and less about the resolution. Although I did not mind the ending, I am usually okay with ambiguous endings.
This is 3 fun hours of delightful banter and murder. And lots and lots of backstabbing. I enjoyed myself here, and I also liked the more quiet bits where nothing appeared to "go forward". I think that added some insight into the character.
My favorite bit certainly was
{Spoiler} Pairing Missy and Jo. That was an inspired idea.
In general, I think Missy completely stole the show.
I agree that the young Master and the Unbound Master were pretty much wasted.
Eric Roberts was surprisingly good, and this ensures me that I made no mistake pre-ordering the Master! set.
Jacobi, Beevers and MacQueen were all great in their respective roles, and their Masters were the most memorable and interesting in their respective roles (beside Missy, that is). I did not warm up to Simm. I agree that he sounded quite different from the TV version. I have never been a fan of the Simm TV Master, and I am afraid he did not do a lot for me here, either.
Was this a revelation? No. Was there a fascinating original plot? No. Did we learn anything new about the Master? Not really, apart from Crispy, that is.
Was this a fun romp that succeeded in some amusing entertainment? You bet.
It could have been more, I agree. But I am actually happy for what we got, and for me this was worth it just for the Missy scenes.
|
|
|
Post by Chakoteya on Jan 4, 2021 9:27:06 GMT
Not heard all of it yet, but my intellectual curiosity would dearly love a squint at the dramatis personae list - just to see how Mr Goss designated each iteration of the same character so the actors knew which lines were theirs. Somehow I doubt Mr Beever's version was called Crispy, but if it was I'm going to be spending my next three incarnations chuckling...
edit - Missy called him Crispy! Excellent
|
|
|
Post by IndieMacUser on Jan 4, 2021 10:22:32 GMT
|
|
|
Post by x2magneto on Jan 4, 2021 18:49:32 GMT
It was a mixed bag for me.
What I liked:
I think the Reaper(Beevers) Master had far and away the best parts of the story.
Being biased, I was also very fond of Eric Roberts, and it sounds like they at BF have struck the right cord finally with this iteration of the character.
Performance-wise I was very fond of Milo Parker. I bought the evil inside that has not yet truly blossomed.
I. Missed. Alex. Macqueen. We need more of the Reborn Master.
I like the spaceship story line, but...
What I didn't like:
...it had no pay off. Furthermore the whole Box set lacks any real pay offs when we're talking individual stories or the big picture. It all feels like a pretext to have the Masters together and then it's just heaps of filler for anyone not named Decayed Master, and even then his story just abruptly ends after all that investment. I felt toyed with. It was all so abortive.
The Unbound Master had no real reason to be there and what they did do with him felt crazy rushed. The invasion of Gallifrey should probably not be an offhanded footnote.
In the end it it never really comes together. I think the desire to subvert expectations ultimately averted the simple and obvious story that they should have used as a basic structure to hang characters on. IE:
The Saxon Master is an unstable aberration (villain) - kills Doctor - Good - Unleashes Web of Time Disaster - Bad - Masters (antiheroes) who realize that there is no profit to be made in the annihilation of the Universe unite to save it and succeed by ultimately saving the Doctor in some crazy bit of irony. They pat each other on the back. End.
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Jan 5, 2021 13:47:00 GMT
Just for Fun I Tried to work out where each Master falls in Chronological Order
Milo Parker- Set Long Before The Destination Wars (as he hadn't Grown up into The James Drefyus Master) but i think after The Flashback of Divided Loyalties.
Geoffrey Beevers- I am Going to say this is set After Master (2003) and before the events of The Enemy Within (TV MOVIE) mainly due to the characterization
Eric Roberts- Between The Life Boat and The Death Boat and The Day of The Master- The Roberts Master is younger and has Gelled hair
Derek Jacobi- Between Killing Time and The Master of Callous
John Simm- After The Events of The Doctor Falls
Michelle Gomez- Set Between The Lumiat and Too Many Masters
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 5, 2021 13:59:34 GMT
Just for Fun I Tried to work out where each Master falls in Chronological Order Milo Parker- Set Long Before The Destination Wars (as he hadn't Grown up into The James Drefyus Master) but i think after The Flashback of Divided Loyalties. Geoffrey Beevers- I am Going to say this is set After Master (2003) and before the events of The Enemy Within (TV MOVIE) mainly due to the characterization Eric Roberts- Between The Life Boat and The Death Boat and The Day of The Master- The Roberts Master is younger and has Gelled hair Derek Jacobi- Between Killing Time and The Master of Callous John Simm- After The Events of The Doctor Falls Michelle Gomez- Set Between The Lumiat and Too Many Masters I think Beevers refers to Roberts as an old body he stole at one point, so he must be from sometime in between Mastermind and Planet of Dust. Jacobi also refers to the Time War, so is from sometime after The Master of Callous which is just before the war kicks off formally. In addition for Gatiss, this is between Ruler of the Universe and Anti-Genesis.
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 5, 2021 14:03:56 GMT
Just for Fun I Tried to work out where each Master falls in Chronological Order Milo Parker- Set Long Before The Destination Wars (as he hadn't Grown up into The James Drefyus Master) but i think after The Flashback of Divided Loyalties. Geoffrey Beevers- I am Going to say this is set After Master (2003) and before the events of The Enemy Within (TV MOVIE) mainly due to the characterization Eric Roberts- Between The Life Boat and The Death Boat and The Day of The Master- The Roberts Master is younger and has Gelled hair Derek Jacobi- Between Killing Time and The Master of Callous John Simm- After The Events of The Doctor Falls Michelle Gomez- Set Between The Lumiat and Too Many Masters Beevers is explicitly post-Roberts in this, so it’s between Mastermind and Planet of Dust. Missy uses her Scottish accent so it’s likely after Deep Breath. Also there’s no gaps between The Lumiat and Too Many Masters. Macqueen comes from between Dark Eyes 3 and 4, specifically during the scheme the Master is involved in with the Dalek Time Controller in Dark Eyes 4.
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Jan 5, 2021 14:09:17 GMT
Just for Fun I Tried to work out where each Master falls in Chronological Order Milo Parker- Set Long Before The Destination Wars (as he hadn't Grown up into The James Drefyus Master) but i think after The Flashback of Divided Loyalties. Geoffrey Beevers- I am Going to say this is set After Master (2003) and before the events of The Enemy Within (TV MOVIE) mainly due to the characterization Eric Roberts- Between The Life Boat and The Death Boat and The Day of The Master- The Roberts Master is younger and has Gelled hair Derek Jacobi- Between Killing Time and The Master of Callous John Simm- After The Events of The Doctor Falls Michelle Gomez- Set Between The Lumiat and Too Many Masters I think Beevers refers to Roberts as an old body he stole at one point, so he must be from sometime in between Mastermind and Planet of Dust. Jacobi also refers to the Time War, so is from sometime after The Master of Callous which is just before the war kicks off formally. In addition for Gatiss, this is between Ruler of the Universe and Anti-Genesis. Beevers asks Roberts if he is a flirtation in the beginning of the audio which means he cannot be Post Mastermind as he doesnt know that Roberts is a stolen body, he would easily know how Roberts was if otherwise
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 5, 2021 14:11:10 GMT
I think Beevers refers to Roberts as an old body he stole at one point, so he must be from sometime in between Mastermind and Planet of Dust. Jacobi also refers to the Time War, so is from sometime after The Master of Callous which is just before the war kicks off formally. In addition for Gatiss, this is between Ruler of the Universe and Anti-Genesis. Beevers asks Roberts if he is a flirtation in the beginning of the audio which means he cannot be Post Mastermind as he doesnt know that Roberts is a stolen body
No, he said that Roberts was merely a flirtation. As in a body that didn’t last long and he eventually lost. He’s later referred to as being in Beevers past.
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Jan 5, 2021 14:14:32 GMT
"Are you a flirtation?" - Beevers Master
"im a body for special occasions" - Roberts Master
Honestly its probably just a continuity error
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 5, 2021 14:18:34 GMT
"Are you a flirtation?" - Beevers Master "im a body for special occasions" - Roberts Master Honestly its probably just a continuity error He says “You were a flirtation” rather than “Are you a flirtation”.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jan 6, 2021 10:28:22 GMT
In the end it it never really comes together. I think the desire to subvert expectations ultimately averted the simple and obvious story that they should have used as a basic structure to hang characters on. IE: The Saxon Master is an unstable aberration (villain) - kills Doctor - Good - Unleashes Web of Time Disaster - Bad - Masters (antiheroes) who realize that there is no profit to be made in the annihilation of the Universe unite to save it and succeed by ultimately saving the Doctor in some crazy bit of irony. They pat each other on the back. End. Yeah, there's an obvious story to be had with the premise of the first 30 minutes, isn't there? And that doesn't mean to say the story has to be predictable, rather there's a natural evolution of events. It just doesn't utilise it. I disagree that it's a desire to subvert expectations, however. I think Big Finish were perhaps a bit over their heads and wanting to deliver an ambitious release but couldn't necessarily guarantee the involvement of everyone (David Richardson's thread of tweets about the recording sessions is interesting), so the script was written to divide into sub-plots that could be scrapped if needed. Unfortunately, that means they are pretty throwaway, so they're tangentially linked at best, or not at all in some cases, to the ending. A bit of a mess, unfortunately.
|
|
|
Post by Who Review on Jan 6, 2021 13:39:22 GMT
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Jan 7, 2021 6:32:32 GMT
Just for Fun I Tried to work out where each Master falls in Chronological Order (...) Milo Parker - Agreed, sometime between the nightmare in Divided Loyalties and The Destination Wars. Geoffrey Beevers - As noted by themeddlingmonk, this is after Mastermind, so sometime before Planet of Dust. The line is definitely "you were a flirtation." Eric Roberts - Definitely not after Master!, as you noted, so yeah, after Lifeboat. Alex Macqueen - Mentions Dark Eyes 4 as a plan he's "working on". Derek Jacobi - The way he talks about the Time War makes it sound like he's been in it for a long time - I'd put this as late as possible, which (I believe) is right before Anti-Genesis (unless you want to put it during Only the Good, of course). John Simm - After The Doctor Falls, as you said, although I can safely say I wasn't expecting that! Michelle Gomez - Missy's plotline in this is so proto-Series 10 that I can't place it anywhere but shortly before the Extremis flashbacks. Mark Gatiss - Again, as themeddlingmonk said, between New Adventures Vol. 4 and Anti-Genesis. The Lumiat - Before The Lumiat. And the other characters? Jo - Sometime in Season 10, as she believes the Doctor is going to come and save her. Gallifrey and the Daleks - I assume between the Capaldi and Whittaker eras? If this is anchored in Simm's timeline, that would make the most sense - and the Doctor he killed is referred to as a "she" after all! Kamelion - No idea!
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Jan 7, 2021 8:08:20 GMT
Just for Fun I Tried to work out where each Master falls in Chronological Order (...) Milo Parker - Agreed, sometime between the nightmare in Divided Loyalties and The Destination Wars. Geoffrey Beevers - As noted by themeddlingmonk, this is after Mastermind, so sometime before Planet of Dust. The line is definitely "you were a flirtation." Eric Roberts - Definitely not after Master!, as you noted, so yeah, after Lifeboat. Alex Macqueen - Mentions Dark Eyes 4 as a plan he's "working on". Derek Jacobi - The way he talks about the Time War makes it sound like he's been in it for a long time - I'd put this as late as possible, which (I believe) is right before Anti-Genesis (unless you want to put it during Only the Good, of course). John Simm - After The Doctor Falls, as you said, although I can safely say I wasn't expecting that! Michelle Gomez - Missy's plotline in this is so proto-Series 10 that I can't place it anywhere but shortly before the Extremis flashbacks. Mark Gatiss - Again, as themeddlingmonk said, between New Adventures Vol. 4 and Anti-Genesis. The Lumiat - Before The Lumiat. And the other characters? Jo - Sometime in Season 10, as she believes the Doctor is going to come and save her. Gallifrey and the Daleks - I assume between the Capaldi and Whittaker eras? If this is anchored in Simm's timeline, that would make the most sense - and the Doctor he killed is referred to as a "she" after all! Kamelion - No idea! I said Robert was between life boat and the death boat and day of the master So don’t put words in my mouth
|
|
|
Post by xlozdob on Jan 7, 2021 14:11:56 GMT
Milo Parker - Agreed, sometime between the nightmare in Divided Loyalties and The Destination Wars. Geoffrey Beevers - As noted by themeddlingmonk , this is after Mastermind, so sometime before Planet of Dust. The line is definitely "you were a flirtation." Eric Roberts - Definitely not after Master!, as you noted, so yeah, after Lifeboat. Alex Macqueen - Mentions Dark Eyes 4 as a plan he's "working on". Derek Jacobi - The way he talks about the Time War makes it sound like he's been in it for a long time - I'd put this as late as possible, which (I believe) is right before Anti-Genesis (unless you want to put it during Only the Good, of course). John Simm - After The Doctor Falls, as you said, although I can safely say I wasn't expecting that! Michelle Gomez - Missy's plotline in this is so proto-Series 10 that I can't place it anywhere but shortly before the Extremis flashbacks. Mark Gatiss - Again, as themeddlingmonk said, between New Adventures Vol. 4 and Anti-Genesis. The Lumiat - Before The Lumiat. And the other characters? Jo - Sometime in Season 10, as she believes the Doctor is going to come and save her. Gallifrey and the Daleks - I assume between the Capaldi and Whittaker eras? If this is anchored in Simm's timeline, that would make the most sense - and the Doctor he killed is referred to as a "she" after all! Kamelion - No idea! I said Robert was between life boat and the death boat and day of the master So don’t put words in my mouth I think constonks meant that, as you noted, what with the gelled hair and all that, it's definitely not set after Master!
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Jan 7, 2021 15:35:28 GMT
I said Robert was between life boat and the death boat and day of the master So don’t put words in my mouth Yeah that's what I meant - "Definitely not after Master!, as you noted" as in you're right, he's young and gel-haired, can't be 2020 Eric. Bit unclear, I suppose!
|
|
|
Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 7, 2021 18:12:06 GMT
During "Planet of Fire"? That way, 1) the Master has access to him 2) The continuity snarl about the timescoop can be explained away by nobody bothering to tell Kamelion in any great detail what happened in teh Death Zone while he was sulking in his room.
|
|