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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 22:19:27 GMT
Is the Lone Cyberman going to be the real arc of this season & The Timeless Child being saved for the next season?
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Post by stcoop on Jan 26, 2020 22:23:44 GMT
Is the Lone Cyberman going to be the real arc of this season & The Timeless Child being saved for the next season? I'm pretty sure Jodie said the other week that it wouldn't be solved this series.
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Post by obluda on Jan 26, 2020 22:25:19 GMT
Of all episodes this is the one I missed as it aired and had spoiled for me...
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Post by pazzer on Jan 26, 2020 22:28:34 GMT
Really enjoyed that. The stuff with Captain Jack was fine and served it's purpose of getting companions out the way for that reveal. Excited to see what happens next.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 22:33:28 GMT
Simultaneously really enjoyed and really hated that episode. {Spoiler} The major twist was the one I was completely dreading. I know that I should wait and see how it goes down but... I don't have faith in Chibnall not to fu-- mess it up.
I'm pretty sure Ruth is going to turn out to be a pre-Hartnell incarnation which... makes no sense in regards to this episode.
How does Ruth have a TARDIS that resembles a phone box? Hartnell's Doctor clearly didn't have a TARDIS and stole one with the default design and it wasn't until he got to Totter's Lane that it got stuck so... what? It could be pre-Hartnell but Chibnall was enough of a Who fan to go on telly as a teen and protest that "it's not as good as it used to be" - I'm sure someone like him knows Hartnell's bafflement that the TARDIS is still a policebox in An Unearthly Child. He won't be unaware. Even on screen..he wrote for Series 7, the same one where we saw Hartnell's Doc nick the very much original shaped TARDIS. I'd wait for the explanation before deciding to hate on the idea...we just have too little info to come down one way or the other yet. I'm thinking something more alt-universe than anything else right now but I'm really just enjoying having some geniune ongoing mystery to chew over in TV Who again.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 26, 2020 22:33:33 GMT
Twists and guesses aside though, that was actually a really fun episode of Who. Breathless without being ill-paced, full of danger and consequence without being too overtly violent ( who didn't laugh when the old dear got blown up? ) and with performances all round that sold the action. Barrowman with the Just For Men out too - funny he kept calling Graham silver fox when he's been letting his own white hair come through for the last few months! Chibbs seems to have brought back the concept of Cannon Fodder in more ways than one Regards mark687
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Post by ollychops on Jan 26, 2020 22:33:34 GMT
I have no idea what any of this means. Chibnall better have good answers for all of this. I’m reminded of the last story of Ravenous 3, where on first listen it was quite effective but second time round not so much due to knowing what twists were coming. I suspect this story will be similar on rewatch. I think I’m so blindsided I can’t really judge it’s quality. Yeah, I feel the same way, which is why I haven't voted on the poll yet. I enjoyed the episode but I feel like I can't really judge until we've got the full story. On a somewhat separate note... someone pointed out how series 12 is effectively 2007's greatest hits. So far we've had The Master, Captain Jack, the Judoon and the chameleon arc so far. Chibnall's really trying to go back to the RTD glory days, huh?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 22:38:41 GMT
What if Chibbers just doesn't bother answering The Timeless/Ruthless Doctor question? Just leaves it hanging!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 22:39:12 GMT
Really enjoyed that. The stuff with Captain Jack was fine and served it's purpose of getting companions out the way for that reveal. Excited to see what happens next. Yes, that's my over-riding feeling too, a real excitement for the show that hasn't been there in ages. I don't think they'd waste a big return like Jack's or even just the money getting Barrowman back only for him to basically deliver a "Coming up this series..." speech - especially since he didn't interact with The Doctor. I'd really think it's more likely than not they filmed his stuff as pickups while filming another story where he's more involved and meets Jodie, either the Cyber ep or the finale two-parter.
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Post by stcoop on Jan 26, 2020 22:41:57 GMT
Really enjoyed that. The stuff with Captain Jack was fine and served it's purpose of getting companions out the way for that reveal. Excited to see what happens next. Yes, that's my over-riding feeling too, a real excitement for the show that hasn't been there in ages. I don't think they'd waste a big return like Jack's or even just the money getting Barrowman back only for him to basically deliver a "Coming up this series..." speech - especially since he didn't interact with The Doctor. I'd really think it's more likely than not they filmed his stuff as pickups while filming another story where he's more involved and meets Jodie, either the Cyber ep or the finale two-parter. In an interview with the Radio Times he talks about using a cover story of being in Cardiff to renovate his apartment to hide his involvement. That wouldn't really have been necessary if he'd only done basically one day's shooting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 22:44:32 GMT
I have no idea what any of this means. Chibnall better have good answers for all of this. I’m reminded of the last story of Ravenous 3, where on first listen it was quite effective but second time round not so much due to knowing what twists were coming. I suspect this story will be similar on rewatch. I think I’m so blindsided I can’t really judge it’s quality. Yeah, I feel the same way, which is why I haven't voted on the poll yet. I enjoyed the episode but I feel like I can't really judge until we've got the full story. On a somewhat separate note... someone pointed out how series 12 is effectively 2007's greatest hits. So far we've had The Master, Captain Jack, the Judoon and the chameleon arc so far. Chibnall's really trying to go back to the RTD glory days, huh? Yes, he is as I've been saying since S11 kicked off. Even without those actual elements returning the storytelling structre, tone and main character have all been largely Tennant-era inspired. The thing is...that's fine - peak Tennant was a juggernaut so going for a formula that works is great. Chibnall does need to create some of his own lore, his own pieces of the puzzle but we could well be seeing that with the various developments this season depending on where they go.
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Post by obluda on Jan 26, 2020 22:45:09 GMT
Did anyone else feel like no-one in this episode had any survival instinct? Both the old woman and the man in the cafe were far too hostile towards the armed invading aliens for me to take their deaths seriously.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 26, 2020 22:57:21 GMT
So given it more time to sit: like Spyfall Part One, this is one that'll live or die, based on follow-through. On it's own, it's engaging and throws plenty of curveballs, but it's also a very odd duck in a few key ways. First, the intense nostalgia informing the piece: the first half, Acts 1 and 2, are peak RTD. Even Ruth's introduction is clearly cut from the same cloth as Rose in... Rose, and it hits a lot of beats from that era in its structure and style. But then, halfway through, the reference point, as well as the entire 'flavour' of the story shifts back about five/six years for Acts 3 and 4 and goes hard into pre-revival BBC Books/early Big Finish territory, where big gutpunches to continuity and the elasticity of the Whoniverse are stories unto themselves, rather than just components. It wears Gary Russell's predelections for lore-diving as storytelling with honour, while carrying some of the disregard for conventional dramatic structure of early BF, when they were more playful. It becomes much looser once we switch to Ruth being a Doctor, though without losing a sense of jeopardy, because of how committed it is to just playing with this ball. If it sounds ridiculous... well, yes it absolutely is. It's, in many respects, the polar opposite of not just S11, but even the ethos of what RTD did in S1.
To some extent, anything that feels a bit wonky or off in the first half might be excusable when viewed through the lense of one big misdirection: most of the supporting cast being one-note red shirts; the Judoon not being all that threatening; even the transparency that Neil Stuke is a red herring and Jack not having much to do, if anything, with the main plot and literally putting the companions in a hurtling space-box so Doctor and Doctor can be together. However, that's not to take away from Manzoor, who is as good as last week and is now tying with Childs for fav director of the Chibbs era: she can balance many styles and tones very well. The digging up of the TARDIS, for instance is such a great moment that is undeniably Gothic and eerie, without being obviously dark or spooky. It's shot in broad daylight but Manzoor makes it hit, combined with Akinola's eeriest score yet.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 26, 2020 23:44:50 GMT
Going to assume that the twist takes place some time between Unearthly Child and Fury From The Deep given the presence of the sonic screwdriver and the condition of the TARDIS. My thoughts would be that the time lords caught up with the Doctor long before he began really interfering in history and he got let off with a caution and got his old job back in the Capitol, but he was forcibly regenerated into Jo Martin’s incarnation as a punishment... Since my last wager was so successful, I’m going to put money on the Monk dobbing him in to the time lords.
Big question: who was Lee?
Oh, yea, and I really loved that. The twitter meltdown I’m seeing from a certain section of fandom is just the icing on the cake.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 26, 2020 23:48:03 GMT
It took about a series and a half but the Chibnall era of Doctor Who finally kicked in.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jan 26, 2020 23:50:31 GMT
Hello again.
Enjoyed it so much I watched it again. Even knowing the events, their is still much to enjoy. I love the Judoon, the Judoon captain being told off by the Doctor ws hilarious. There were lots of funny asides, despite the very serious and dangerous situation. One thing I did appreciate was the excellent direction. Really imaginative,kept the story moving and I hope we see more of Nida Manzoor. Also, is it me or are there an awful lot of hexagons in this episode. Ruth's mirror, Captain Jack's stolen ship, the TARDIS obviously, ok, just a couple then.
Segun Akinola's incidental music this week was superb. A real range from bombastic to mysterious and haunting. I loved the contrast between the first half of the epsiode and the second half.
This episode really was like the Doctor Who equivalent of Life on Mars:
"My name is the Doctor, I had an accident and I woke up in 2007. Am I mad? In a coma? Or back in time? Whatever's happened it's like I've landed on another planet... Oh hang on, business as usual then!"
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 26, 2020 23:57:14 GMT
The sonic does make the timing interesting. My first thought would be to place this Doctor post-War Games and pre-Spearhead From Space with the Time-Lords forcing this regeneration upon the Doctor.
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Post by Digi on Jan 27, 2020 0:03:17 GMT
Well, that was a heck of a lot!
I think talk of Ruth as a missing classic era Doctor is way off base, personally. With Gallifrey presently in ruins thanks to the Master apparently finding out that the origin of their race is a lie, I think it far more likely that Gallifrey will be getting a whole new history thanks to something the Master did in the distant past of their world, and that 'Ruth' is a legitimate incarnation of the Doctor from Gallifrey's new timeline--not a 'missing' incarnation of the Doctor we've all known since 1963.
Of course, I have a talent for being wrong at predicting how Doctor Who storylines will go, so we'll see.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jan 27, 2020 0:04:11 GMT
Did anyone else feel like no-one in this episode had any survival instinct? Both the old woman and the man in the cafe were far too hostile towards the armed invading aliens for me to take their deaths seriously. Hello again.
Yes, there is something in what you say. However, humans are always capable of a gloriously futile gesture and the Judoon need no excuse to blast a being out of existence. Also there is that fight or flight response. Both characters engaged in action before thinking things through, I believe they might even qualify for a Darwin award. That prestigious award given to particularly foolhardy individuals who engage in life-threatening behaviour. They "...eliminate themselves in an extraordinarily idiotic manner, thereby improving our species' chances of long-term survival." (Wendy Northcutt 1993)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 0:31:08 GMT
Well, that was a heck of a lot! I think talk of Ruth as a missing classic era Doctor is way off base, personally. With Gallifrey presently in ruins thanks to the Master apparently finding out that the origin of their race is a lie, I think it far more likely that Gallifrey will be getting a whole new history thanks to something the Master did in the distant past of their world, and that 'Ruth' is a legitimate incarnation of the Doctor from Gallifrey's new timeline--not a 'missing' incarnation of the Doctor we've all known since 1963. Of course, I have a talent for being wrong at predicting how Doctor Who storylines will go, so we'll see. I'm almost on the same wavelength - I think she's either alt-timeline or alt-universe. If she is, I kinda think Sacha Dhawan might be as well which would be fun. Yet we don't know how any of this ties into the Timeless Child stuff, or Gallifrey's demise, or The Master. Some of it may not tie in at all so it's almost as much fun now trying to suss any potential red herrings as guessing where it's all going. Frankly I think shoe-horning another Doctor in to the Hartnell-Capaldi timeline so soon after The War Doctor would be clumsy at best and I don't think for that reason alone that's where it's going - as such I won't bother trying to find a way to fit "Ruth" in as I don't believe she will fit in. Of course...why would her TARDIS look like she too had been at Totter's Lane in 1963 and had a broken chameleon circuit? Well....I guess no theory works perfectly without all the facts to inform it.
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