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Post by number13 on Jan 27, 2020 0:41:53 GMT
CHO TOH LOH OH HOly MOly!! Bloomin' fantastic even though I don't understand more than about 10% of what I just watched, it was amazing and I take back what I said a few weeks ago about 'not Gallifrey again' - this is looking like the Mother of All Arcs. Please may the pay-off be worth the build-up because this is promising to be sensational. I'd steered clear of spoilers and speculation beyond the 'It's BIG' sort of hints and I was expecting the fugitive to be either River or Jack because either would be 'big' and both will be on the run half the time. So when Jack's voice spoke to Graham I cheered and thought - that's the reveal, hello Captain! But what a clever trick from the writers - give us Jack to put us off our guard (and keep the Companions usefully busy and sent back with cryptic messages... Cybermen?!... as well as all the other stuff?! How many episodes do we have to resolve this?!) And then oh my goodness... I don't know what I was expecting the Doctor to dig up in the sanddunes but not the TARDIS, that's for sure. And then Ruth...
RuthDoctor is fantastic! She's got the manner, the style, the clothes, the Hartnell-modern glasses, the Aikido (and how!) and that beautiful glassy classic-inspired console room in her TARDIS. (I cheered again when she poked fun at the Doctor's short trousers... ) OK I will try to be practical for a minute - we know they are both the Doctor and if neither can remember being the other incarnation, is Ruth the Alt-Thirteen/Unbound-Thirteen then? (If it turns out to be a 'memory-wipe' plot and a normal earlier/later incarnation I will be very disappointed but I don't think/guess it is.) They should have compared earlier incarnations and maybe they will in future - would they both remember being the same One, Two and so on - and for how many incarnations before the divergence. Or is Ruth the latest in a completely different line of Doctors from an alternative Universe? I rather hope she is - and I liked BF's instant mention of the 'Unbounds' btw! At a wild guess, either the Master did something terrible to Time when he attacked Gallifrey and as a result we now have a parallel Gallifrey and its inhabitants seeping through into this universe, or a fractured timeline at some point in the past (from the Doctor's perspective.) Or the Master discovered that the 'wrong' Gallifrey had come back after the Time War and destroyed it in horror at what he found there. Or very much more likely, something totally different - and I'm waiting to find out what. Hooked. Series 12 is turning out to be terrific.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 27, 2020 0:56:46 GMT
Well, that was a heck of a lot! I think talk of Ruth as a missing classic era Doctor is way off base, personally. With Gallifrey presently in ruins thanks to the Master apparently finding out that the origin of their race is a lie, I think it far more likely that Gallifrey will be getting a whole new history thanks to something the Master did in the distant past of their world, and that 'Ruth' is a legitimate incarnation of the Doctor from Gallifrey's new timeline--not a 'missing' incarnation of the Doctor we've all known since 1963. Of course, I have a talent for being wrong at predicting how Doctor Who storylines will go, so we'll see. I'm almost on the same wavelength - I think she's either alt-timeline or alt-universe. If she is, I kinda think Sacha Dhawan might be as well which would be fun. Yet we don't know how any of this ties into the Timeless Child stuff, or Gallifrey's demise, or The Master. Some of it may not tie in at all so it's almost as much fun now trying to suss any potential red herrings as guessing where it's all going. Frankly I think shoe-horning another Doctor in to the Hartnell-Capaldi timeline so soon after The War Doctor would be clumsy at best and I don't think for that reason alone that's where it's going - as such I won't bother trying to find a way to fit "Ruth" in as I don't believe she will fit in. Of course...why would her TARDIS look like she too had been at Totter's Lane in 1963 and had a broken chameleon circuit? Well....I guess no theory works perfectly without all the facts to inform it. Those shots of the multiple earths back in Spyfall were a red herring for multiple universes in that episode but may have some relevance here. I’m thinking that Captain Jack’s exposition about the lone cyberman (“Hiho Silver Nemesis!”) may also be a part of it, otherwise it was just a glorified cameo that served no purpose.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 27, 2020 1:22:24 GMT
the lone cyberman (“Hiho Silver Nemesis!”) In an episode involving the Judoon, who's intelligence level some Spanish speaker may dub, 'Tonto'.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 2:08:27 GMT
I too have rewatched it and such were the big moments I kinda missed out the performance of the lead. I've been critical of Jodie'd performances at times, often because of what she's working with, but sometimes I think she doesn't get across the gravity of the moments, the importance of events. So I think this is Jodie's best performance by a country mile and if this is more like what she gives going forward she can really start to climb up my own personal rankings (I'm sure she's honoured!) . From the wonderful comedy of her twice trying to rhyme Judoon with moon only to realise it's broad daylight so she had to search for..."lagoon" instead to her really snapping at Ryan in a way that showed a bit of spite but also some real hurt, Jodie was able to do just about everything here. The word I've said I just can never seem to apply to hear and haven't since October 2018 is "depth" and finally she's getting to show some. She's playing this character who is massively struggling with her own trauma but who has to keep on the happy face for her family. I'm sure we can all find something to relate to there. She loves them but she doesn't either want to bog them down with her woes or she knows they couldn't really comprehend them. It's giving her different layers to play for the first time and she's knocking it out the park. I think Chibnall might finally have twigged that, yeah, 57 years of continuity might be daunting and you don't want it to throw any newbies off but at the same time you can use just some of that 57 years to inform and enhance what's happening now and that's what we're seeing play out. The goodwil of millions is invested in that 57 years and they've got too much great stuff in them to not let them guide your story, it doesn't need to define it. "No old monsters or continuity" doesn't work so well when your new creations from Tim Shaw to whatever that cute thing was that ate spaceships don't capture the imagination. Jack came back today after a decade offscreen to no doubt great reactions even from people not crazy about the character. Bring the Stenza back in another decade and I'd question how many of the audience would even remember them. I've never been one of those "This isn't the Who I like so it isn't real Doctor Who" types but I must admit to finally feeling truly engaged with this era in a way I haven't been.
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Post by nottenst on Jan 27, 2020 2:41:53 GMT
Great episode. My head is buzzing with thoughts. Due to the appearance of the TARDIS as a police box, Ruth Doctor can't be before the "first" Doctor. I can't imagine that she is an inbetween one that we just never saw. Alternate timeline/dimension has to be what is going on, branching off at some point. Gat and Lee also must be as well. Loads of questions with no answers anytime soon probably.
See Jack was exciting enough, but having another Doctor definitely tipped things over the edge. I am quite intrigued as to what is going on.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 27, 2020 3:08:42 GMT
Something that just occurred to me: did anyone else notice that this new Doctor is a pretty good pilot of the TARDIS? Hmmm...
Lastly (promise), this was the second time that Graham was mistaken for the Doctor. We know that Mr Chibnall is a fan of the “rule of three” (it has Power, for one thing) but will the third time this happens be a curse, do you think?
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Post by timegirl on Jan 27, 2020 3:33:08 GMT
Something that just occurred to me: did anyone else notice that this new Doctor is a pretty good pilot of the TARDIS? Hmmm... Lastly (promise), this was the second time that Graham was mistaken for the Doctor. We know that Mr Chibnall is a fan of the “rule of three” (it has Power, for one thing) but will the third time this happens be a curse, do you think? What if Graham turns out to another hidden chameleon arched incarnation of the Doctor, as well ?he does keep getting mistaken for the Doctor 🤔 you never know we could have multiple Doctor reveals on our hands🤔😉
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Post by elkawho on Jan 27, 2020 3:33:47 GMT
What was THAT??!!
Not sure about a lot of it, but it was certainly fantastic! And quite a ride. Jeez, where did that even come from? After the last season there was no reason to expect this show to do anything like this! I enjoyed reading all of your theories, but I'm not even going to try and figure it out. I'm just going with the flow, guys.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 5:30:12 GMT
Oh, that was incredible! This was just what I was hoping for after the set-up in Spyfall. It's not easy to establish a brand new incarnation in fifteen(ish) minutes, but the Ruth!Doctor makes a strong first impression. She has a real gravitas and a sense of cunning that makes you second-guess where she's coming from. The episode's really well-constructed from the start, but once those two Doctors finally meet face-to-face, it's electric. There's so much going on here -- Jack, the Judoon, the fugitive hunt -- but none of it feels rushed. Everyone has something to do and the pursuit keeps you guessing up until the critical moment. Big ideas, complemented by small moments. I also liked the little details here and there. Jack's stolen vessel looks a bit like Carl Sagan's "Spaceship of the Imagination" from Cosmos and the Judoon Leader's cataract in one eye is a nice lean on "justice is (near) blind". The lighthouse, as well, being a symbol of something otherworldly (a, not exactly common, but definitely recognisable trope in modern time travel stories). And I do really love this team, they're an incredibly supportive bunch. The TARDIS hasn't felt this homey in a very long time. The Doctor's admission that she's been visiting Gallifrey's ruins on-and-off over the past couple episodes is quite evocative. (I wonder if we should expect a From the Ashes of the Capitol anthology sometime soon?) Even better, it looks as though we're not waiting around for this new arc. We're launching right into it. *claps hands* Excited for what's next!
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 27, 2020 6:18:37 GMT
This was insane. I loved it from the first shot to the last minute. And I'm very, very excited for the Ruth!Doctor. My personal hope is that if she is a pre-Hartnell Doctor, Chibnall leaves some space for more – if we're breaking the "canon" and completely destroying all the assumptions we have about the Doctor's past (which I am totally 100% in favor of! Canon is a silly thing and the more mystery the better!) then let's go all the way. I'm ready to pre-order that Ruth!Doctor boxset/book/comic/action figure as soon as it's announced.
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Post by Jeedai on Jan 27, 2020 6:19:21 GMT
Well, that was a heck of a lot! I think talk of Ruth as a missing classic era Doctor is way off base, personally. With Gallifrey presently in ruins thanks to the Master apparently finding out that the origin of their race is a lie, I think it far more likely that Gallifrey will be getting a whole new history thanks to something the Master did in the distant past of their world, and that 'Ruth' is a legitimate incarnation of the Doctor from Gallifrey's new timeline--not a 'missing' incarnation of the Doctor we've all known since 1963. Of course, I have a talent for being wrong at predicting how Doctor Who storylines will go, so we'll see. I'm leaning this way too. It may not be coincidence that this episode comes so soon after Orphan 55 showed us an Earth that may or may not come to pass depending on what people do in Ryan/Yaz/Graham's present. Ruth!Doctor and Gat may be beings from a Gallifrey that's been brought into existence thanks to The Master's investigation of/ reaction to the Timeless Child. A revised timeline that is starting to replace Thirteen's. A timeline Thirteen is now seeing glimpses of, and may someday have the option of choosing over her own (save a Gallifrey -- Ruth!Doctor's Gallifrey -- at the cost of the selves and past she knows personally, or let all those potential billions of lives never be in order to preserve her own 'correct' reality). If I'm barking up the right police box, that 'choice' may come down to whatever the Lone Cyberman ends up wanting from her.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jan 27, 2020 6:33:03 GMT
Well isn't it obvious? When Gallifrey got sent somewhere at the end of the Time War, in its little bubble universe, was that universe empty? Or just small, like E-Space? No, no idea where I'm going with this other than to say that Doctor Ruth (ha!) isn't our Doctor and never was or will be. This is the Stepford Gallifrey. Auld Mortality? Like feck it is. This is Galllifrey Season 5.
Or I may be entirely wrong.
Your hair was too black, Jack.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 27, 2020 7:05:55 GMT
A poster on Tumblr theorized that Ruth may be between Troughton and Pertwee. She's working for the Time Lords, has a classic-looking TARDIS that's a police box on the outside (which probably wouldn't be the case with a pre-Hartnell Doctor), and we never actually saw that regeneration on screen, just Troughton spinning off and Pertwee stumbling out of the TARDIS. If she's not an alternate Doctor or created via time meddling, this does seem to make the most sense from the information we have right now.
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Tony Jones
Chancellery Guard
Professor Chronotis
Still rockin' along!
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Post by Tony Jones on Jan 27, 2020 8:21:41 GMT
A poster on Tumblr theorized that Ruth may be between Troughton and Pertwee. She's working for the Time Lords, has a classic-looking TARDIS that's a police box on the outside (which probably wouldn't be the case with a pre-Hartnell Doctor), and we never actually saw that regeneration on screen, just Troughton spinning off and Pertwee stumbling out of the TARDIS. If she's not an alternate Doctor or created via time meddling, this does seem to make the most sense from the information we have right now. This is where I am currently. No theory fits everything we’ve been told and some of it may be lies. It’s got us talking though!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 8:43:45 GMT
A poster on Tumblr theorized that Ruth may be between Troughton and Pertwee. She's working for the Time Lords, has a classic-looking TARDIS that's a police box on the outside (which probably wouldn't be the case with a pre-Hartnell Doctor), and we never actually saw that regeneration on screen, just Troughton spinning off and Pertwee stumbling out of the TARDIS. If she's not an alternate Doctor or created via time meddling, this does seem to make the most sense from the information we have right now. Yes I've seen that theory. But Dr Ruth doesn't recognise the sonic which was introduced during Troughton'a era.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 27, 2020 8:54:54 GMT
Great episode, wish this had been a two parter as there was a lot to cram into 50 minutes.
Capt Jack return i forsee him appearing again in the finale because to have the character return & not meet the new Doctor would be sacrilege.
The Ruth/Doctor arc i reckon that Gallifrey been cloning themselves in past but the Master found out that he is a actual clone of the original who's probably good, same goes for the Doctor but he/she bad which is why the Master burned Gallifrey to cinders because he discovered the truth that they are clones, test subjects, this Ruth Doctor is probably the real Doctor but unlike our Doctor she capable of violence.
I could be wayyyyyyyy off but one thing's certain I'm hooked.
4/5.
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Post by stcoop on Jan 27, 2020 9:24:56 GMT
If it turns out that Time Lords get multiple regeneration cycles but have their memories wiped between them for some reason, then we can finally stop pretending the Brain of Morbius Doctors weren't real.
Oh, and has anyone checked in on Ian since last night? This might have been the episode that finally caused his head to explode with rage.
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Post by number13 on Jan 27, 2020 9:32:00 GMT
A poster on Tumblr theorized that Ruth may be between Troughton and Pertwee. She's working for the Time Lords, has a classic-looking TARDIS that's a police box on the outside (which probably wouldn't be the case with a pre-Hartnell Doctor), and we never actually saw that regeneration on screen, just Troughton spinning off and Pertwee stumbling out of the TARDIS. If she's not an alternate Doctor or created via time meddling, this does seem to make the most sense from the information we have right now. The 'Devious' Doctor in fact? (Fans spend years making their story and then the beeb just come along and... )
Could be. Personally I hope Ruth is an alternative universe Doctor, more interesting imo. (And then one day BF might be able to relaunch their 'Unbound' range into the New Series!)
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Post by frisby78 on Jan 27, 2020 9:34:09 GMT
Regarding Jack, he was using a 'scoop' is that as in time scoop, as in Time Lord tech?
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Post by frisby78 on Jan 27, 2020 9:34:39 GMT
And who is in the 'Alliance'?
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