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Post by masterdoctor on May 2, 2021 20:28:09 GMT
I do think a major part will come down to how Barrowman responds. If he can actually apologize and show he is and/or has been making changes to his behaviour I do think there is room for him to continue.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 2, 2021 20:51:52 GMT
Perhaps he has in private to those directly and specifically concerned, there is an argument that hold more weight and more respect to the person(s) involved, rather than showboating in public (just reading some stuff on FB now). We don't know.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 2, 2021 21:25:31 GMT
I do think a major part will come down to how Barrowman responds. If he can actually apologize and show he is and/or has been making changes to his behaviour I do think there is room for him to continue. Maybe but would that cut it in any other workplace? If someone in my office had been doing that repeatedly, saying sorry I wont do it again wouldn't wash. He would have been sacked. I am at a loss as to understand how some people (& I am not referring to you masterdoctor but just a general point now) seem to be making allowances for his behaviour. There seems to be a culture of silence all this, of refusing to hold certain people to account within the tv/film industry by those higher up. Turning a blind eye when 'the talent' does these things or well he just needs to say sorry. I know I am repeating myself but it all comes down to would this behaviour be accepted in our respective workplaces? & if not why are people like Barrowman not treated the same? A tv/film set is a workplace & the same laws in respect of sexual harassment surely apply? Imagine if any of us were in the workplace & a co-worker did this? (& of course it is the way these things are reported by the press, in a jokey way to minimise how serious it is & as a consequence minimise complaints as its apparently just a bit of fun).
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Post by mark687 on May 2, 2021 21:38:39 GMT
I do think a major part will come down to how Barrowman responds. If he can actually apologize and show he is and/or has been making changes to his behaviour I do think there is room for him to continue. Maybe but would that cut it in any other workplace? If someone in my office had been doing that repeatedly, saying sorry I wont do it again wouldn't wash. He would have been sacked. I am at a loss as to understand how some people (& I am not referring to you masterdoctor but just a general point now) seem to be making allowances for his behaviour. There seems to be a culture of silence all this, of refusing to hold certain people to account within the tv/film industry by those higher up. Turning a blind eye when 'the talent' does these things or well he just needs to say sorry. I know I am repeating myself but it all comes down to would this behaviour be accepted in our respective workplaces? & if not why are people like Barrowman not treated the same? A tv/film set is a workplace & the same laws in respect of sexual harassment surely apply? Imagine if any of us were in the workplace & a co-worker did this? An On Set Code of Conduct only existed since 2018 so judge the Industry as well as the Individuals productionguild.com/members-hub/member-resources/anti-bullying-and-harassment-principles/But if/ when the debate enters a wider arena there's unlikely a universal consensus in dealing with all possible scenarios Regards mark687
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 2, 2021 21:41:50 GMT
Maybe but would that cut it in any other workplace? If someone in my office had been doing that repeatedly, saying sorry I wont do it again wouldn't wash. He would have been sacked. I am at a loss as to understand how some people (& I am not referring to you masterdoctor but just a general point now) seem to be making allowances for his behaviour. There seems to be a culture of silence all this, of refusing to hold certain people to account within the tv/film industry by those higher up. Turning a blind eye when 'the talent' does these things or well he just needs to say sorry. I know I am repeating myself but it all comes down to would this behaviour be accepted in our respective workplaces? & if not why are people like Barrowman not treated the same? A tv/film set is a workplace & the same laws in respect of sexual harassment surely apply? Imagine if any of us were in the workplace & a co-worker did this? An On Set Code of Conduct only existed since 2018 so judge the Industry as well as the Individuals productionguild.com/members-hub/member-resources/anti-bullying-and-harassment-principles/But if/ when the debate enters a wider area there's unlikely a universal consensus in dealing with all possible scenarios Regards mark687 2018! Outrageous. But I guess this is why Barrowman & the even more vile Clarke have got away with it for so long alongside a complicit industry.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 2, 2021 22:14:50 GMT
*raises hand* Ummm what’s John done/alleged to have done?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 2, 2021 22:31:37 GMT
*raises hand* Ummm what’s John done/alleged to have done? Repeatedly sexually harassing fellow cast members on Doctor Who & Torchwood. This is something which has been well known, reported about in a jokey way by the media & also discussed as just a part of loveable John's personality at conventions where people listening to the stories being retold find it amusing for some weird reason.
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 2, 2021 22:40:53 GMT
*raises hand* Ummm what’s John done/alleged to have done? Repeatedly sexually harassing fellow cast members on Doctor Who & Torchwood. This is something which has been well known, reported about in a jokey way by the media & also discussed as just a part of loveable John's personality at conventions where people listening to the stories being retold find it amusing for some weird reason. And this is the problem. No one treats it as sexual harassment, because to John there's nothing sexual about it. The acts themselves would count as sexual harassment, if people wanted to push that. The vast majority of people whom John's done anything to, and all of the ones who have spoken about it, treated it in the same way as John - as a joke.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 2, 2021 23:23:05 GMT
I’ve had a look and yeah.... John’s got issues. it looks like this latest round of ‘seriously, John keep it in your trousers” has been brought to us by Noel Clark going “if I’m going down, I’m taking others with me”. Should Barrowman face consequences? Potentially, yes. My big question would be “if someone asked him to stop, and not do it again around them.... would/did he?” That might be the line between charming pervert and sex pest.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 0:18:55 GMT
Repeatedly sexually harassing fellow cast members on Doctor Who & Torchwood. This is something which has been well known, reported about in a jokey way by the media & also discussed as just a part of loveable John's personality at conventions where people listening to the stories being retold find it amusing for some weird reason. And this is the problem. No one treats it as sexual harassment, because to John there's nothing sexual about it. The acts themselves would count as sexual harassment, if people wanted to push that. The vast majority of people whom John's done anything to, and all of the ones who have spoken about it, treated it in the same way as John - as a joke. I think smacking people in the face with his cock is messed up regardless. That video is old, there are plenty of videos before and after where people like Tennant and Eve talked about it.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 3, 2021 0:48:50 GMT
And this is the problem. No one treats it as sexual harassment, because to John there's nothing sexual about it. The acts themselves would count as sexual harassment, if people wanted to push that. The vast majority of people whom John's done anything to, and all of the ones who have spoken about it, treated it in the same way as John - as a joke. I think smacking people in the face with his cock is messed up regardless. That video is old, there are plenty of videos before and after where people like Tennant and Eve talked about it. Sorry what now? Well.... you know that line between charming pervert and sex pest? That’s cross it.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 0:54:10 GMT
I think smacking people in the face with his cock is messed up regardless. That video is old, there are plenty of videos before and after where people like Tennant and Eve talked about it. Sorry what now? Well.... you know that line between charming pervert and sex pest? That’s cross it. In the most public video at the moment there is talk about him putting it on Camille's shoulder, but Eve has spoke MANY times about sitting in makeup, John calls her, she turns around and then gets a face full of dick.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 1:11:06 GMT
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 3, 2021 2:50:07 GMT
Just reading the comments from people "translating" .. 8 times. ugh.. no.. that is so not on. :-(
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 6:22:57 GMT
Literally just got messages on Facebook from a Torchwood group admin about not sharing that video I just shared because it's "harmless messing around".
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 3, 2021 7:47:32 GMT
Literally just got messages on Facebook from a Torchwood group admin about not sharing that video I just shared because it's "harmless messing around". Defending sexual harassment. Rephrasing it as harmless messing around. That's what the boss in the office called it when he slapped his secretary on the behind.
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Post by barnabaslives on May 3, 2021 10:16:54 GMT
Literally just got messages on Facebook from a Torchwood group admin about not sharing that video I just shared because it's "harmless messing around". Maybe it's their very poorly chosen way of saying they're worried it's going to be difficult enough to avert a crucifixion by cancel culture? I don't have a good grasp of this but I'm worried for him and maybe just me but I worry about justice being administered over the same medium that many people have so frequently see fit to use to abuse others because of the distance and anonymity. If he's still whipping it out, by all means don't just show him the door, pick him up and throw him out of it, but if he hasn't done any of the above since Torchwood was filming, maybe he's done something better than apologize, which is demonstrate that he's willing to really change his ways as if sincerely repentant?
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Post by ollychops on May 3, 2021 10:21:54 GMT
Literally just got messages on Facebook from a Torchwood group admin about not sharing that video I just shared because it's "harmless messing around". Maybe it's their very poorly chosen way of saying they're worried it's going to be difficult enough to avert a crucifixion by cancel culture? I don't have a good grasp of this but I'm worried for him and maybe just me but I worry about justice being administered over the same medium that many people have so frequently see fit to use to abuse others because of the distance and anonymity. If he's still whipping it out, by all means don't just show him the door, pick him up and throw him out of it, but if he hasn't done any of the above since Torchwood was filming, maybe he's done something better than apologize, which is demonstrate that he's willing to really change his ways as if sincerely repentant? IIRC, Stephen Amell commented on Barrowman’s actions on set so he was still doing it on the earlier seasons of Arrow, though he may have calmed it down since then.
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Post by muckypup on May 3, 2021 14:06:37 GMT
*raises hand* Ummm what’s John done/alleged to have done? Repeatedly sexually harassing fellow cast members on Doctor Who & Torchwood. This is something which has been well known, reported about in a jokey way by the media & also discussed as just a part of loveable John's personality at conventions where people listening to the stories being retold find it amusing for some weird reason. firsty I am not saying Barrowman Or Clarke is right or wrong just until theyhave been prosecuted of unlawful activity we should stop this judgement And talk of banning/boycotting their work Exposing your self is not sexual harassment, we do it in the toilet everyday, and the law on exposure is complicated but based on situation not the act.......Example in uk law it’s perfectly allowed to be naked in your own garden but if someone overlooks you and complains you must refrain from doing it.....no one apart from Noel has made a complaint as he tried to excuse his behaviour........In fact it’s often been joked about by barrowmans co-workers it’s never been a secret it’s something the work place should have dealt with its no Retrospective criminal act. it’s all about context its not nice, and I’m not excusing it but we need to Put it in perspective, do we sack and boycott everyone who has mooned out of the window at you, photocopied their bits, or everyone who has ever played who can wee the furthest/ highest with a work mate .........We would lose a third of workers over night, hell! I had a boss who mooned out the window of his office if he thought you were talking to long....... it sounds horrid written down but was something everyone just laughed and pointed at no one was harmed it worked you were embarrassed but much less than being shouted. retrospective bad behaviour would mean we should no longer watch films Or show anything by the loathsome Robert Mitchum, christoper Walker, humphy bogart, Oliver Reed, Peter o’toole, many bands from 60’s, 70’s & 80’s and numerous others.........we need to Look long and hard about witch-hunting.......we have laws and trial by social media is not the way to deal with stuff we cannot go on condoning something and persecuting others........ The companies that stop working with the accused are cowardly and wrong to publicly convict before an offence has been proved in law, it’s fine to stop working privately but to not show something and publicly denounce them because of allegations is just being judge and jury and executioner is just wrong we knew of johns crude behaviour long before this and accepted it (if not approved), where Noel Clark’s Appears wrong and has been hidden, harmful and Now reported and now being investigated. He has yet to be found guilty of anything. Just think about last time you broke the law (we all do it, be it speeding, swearing, ripping a cd or dvd, etc) should someone on twitter decide your fate based on their option and no facts or context, or should we let the law decide if there has been an offence, then act. sorry to rant, but this judgement on someone’s life over social media is Just so wrong and has to stop, what happened to everyone is innocent until proven guilty
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2021 14:20:42 GMT
Repeatedly sexually harassing fellow cast members on Doctor Who & Torchwood. This is something which has been well known, reported about in a jokey way by the media & also discussed as just a part of loveable John's personality at conventions where people listening to the stories being retold find it amusing for some weird reason. firsty I am not saying Barrowman Or Clarke is right or wrong just until theyhave been prosecuted of unlawful activity we should stop this judgement And talk of banning/boycotting their work Exposing your self is not sexual harassment, we do it in the toilet everyday, and the law on exposure is complicated but based on situation not the act.......Example in uk law it’s perfectly allowed to be naked in your own garden but if someone overlooks you and complains you must refrain from doing it.....no one apart from Noel has made a complaint as he tried to excuse his behaviour........In fact it’s often been joked about by barrowmans co-workers it’s never been a secret it’s something the work place should have dealt with its no Retrospective criminal act. it’s all about context its not nice, and I’m not excusing it but we need to Put it in perspective, do we sack and boycott everyone who has mooned out of the window at you, photocopied their bits, or everyone who has ever played who can wee the furthest/ highest with a work mate .........We would lose a third of workers over night, hell! I had a boss who mooned out the window of his office if he thought you were talking to long....... it sounds horrid written down but was something everyone just laughed and pointed at no one was harmed it worked you were embarrassed but much less than being shouted. retrospective bad behaviour would mean we should no longer watch films Or show anything by the loathsome Robert Mitchum, christoper Walker, humphy bogart, Oliver Reed, Peter o’toole, many bands from 60’s, 70’s & 80’s and numerous others.........we need to Look long and hard about witch-hunting.......we have laws and trial by social media is not the way to deal with stuff we cannot go on condoning something and persecuting others........ The companies that stop working with the accused are cowardly and wrong to publicly convict before an offence has been proved in law, it’s fine to stop working privately but to not show something and publicly denounce them because of allegations is just being judge and jury and executioner is just wrong we knew of johns crude behaviour long before this and accepted it (if not approved), where Noel Clark’s Appears wrong and has been hidden, harmful and Now reported and now being investigated. He has yet to be found guilty of anything. Just think about last time you broke the law (we all do it, be it speeding, swearing, ripping a cd or dvd, etc) should someone on twitter decide your fate based on their option and no facts or context, or should we let the law decide if there has been an offence, then act.sorry to rant, but this judgement on someone’s life over social media is Just so wrong and has to stop, what happened to everyone is innocent until proven guilty It's also worth pointing out that, at least as far as I'm aware, no complaint has been made about John Barrowman, and in interviews, nobody has had anything but good to say about him.
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