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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 20:16:07 GMT
With all the history coming out now about Barrowman, and all the bad press that follows, what will happen to Jack? I can't see them recasting him, so would they replace him as a main force? Is this a good time to get and bring back Rex? Being he is tied so strongly with Torchwood does that mean it's over? Time for Face of Boe? Or just audios where Jack is elsewhere like most of the monthly?
Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 20:31:18 GMT
With all the history coming out now about Barrowman, and all the bad press that follows, what will happen to Jack? I can't see them recasting him, so would they replace him as a main force? Is this a good time to get and bring back Rex? Being he is tied so strongly with Torchwood does that mean it's over? Time for Face of Boe? Or just audios where Jack is elsewhere like most of the monthly? Thoughts? I think it has been too well known and tolerated to be dealt with now. It may be more widely known by the public through changing expectations, but raises many questions of others who let it pass. Why did x not deal with it, or y not report it upwards? It is hard to isolate his behaviour from others unless they too fall on their swords by way of negligent behaviour. That's just an opinion of mine, but its like the seniors who allow locker room business (such as bullying) to continue. One becomes complicit if it is excused even just once. So it becomes institutionalised.
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 1, 2021 20:42:38 GMT
With all the history coming out now about Barrowman, and all the bad press that follows, what will happen to Jack? I can't see them recasting him, so would they replace him as a main force? Is this a good time to get and bring back Rex? Being he is tied so strongly with Torchwood does that mean it's over? Time for Face of Boe? Or just audios where Jack is elsewhere like most of the monthly? Thoughts? Honestly, I don't think they'll be replacing Barrowman any time soon. There are no accusations that have been made about Barrowman's inappropriate behaviour since 2008 (as in, he apparently hasn't done anything dodgy since 2008 to the best of my knowledge), so I think as long as he makes an apology and it's confirmed that since he started working with BF, he hasn't done anything inappropriate anywhere, I don't think they'll stop working with him.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 1, 2021 20:59:23 GMT
The problem is Barrowman's behaviour is common knowledge amongst Doctor Who/Torchwood staff & cast members, it's also been talked about at conventions to a weirdly laughing audience. So its hard to imagine those that work at Big Finish & employ him were unaware of this. What do they do? Claim they didn't know? Say they misjudged things? Discretely draw his appearances to a close? I guess the real question is will Torchwood fans (which I am not) still buy stories featuring Captain Jack?
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 21:10:25 GMT
To be clear, I like John Barrowman, and wouldn't PERSONALLY be offended by his actions if they were directed to me. THAT SAID, when we consider that Noel is currently being cancelled, and Bruno Langley's whole career is over (despite admittedly having a single accusation, which realistically is less drastic than Barrowman), how could they not address this now?
I remember when Langley was having all this press, and I wondered why Barrowman was able to survive it so easily then, and I see it now, and soooooo many people don't want to say anything about it. The problem is, if a system is so ready to ruin people, but allow others, than where does that set equality? Do we banish some and not others? Do we give Langley a second chance, and later Noel too if he is fully cancelled? Is Barrowman exempt because of his charisma and the fact that he's gay?
IF Barrowman doesn't get cancelled, I'd recommend at least keeping him out of the spotlight for a bit.
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 1, 2021 21:11:28 GMT
The problem is Barrowman's behaviour is common knowledge amongst Doctor Who/Torchwood staff & cast members, it's also been talked about at conventions to a weirdly laughing audience. So its hard to imagine those that work at Big Finish & employ him were unaware of this. What do they do? Claim they didn't know? Say they misjudged things? Discretely draw his appearances to a close? I guess the real question is will Torchwood fans (which I am not) still buy stories featuring Captain Jack? I'm slowly making my way back through all the monthlies, and I have no plans to avoid previously released Jack stories, but it is something I'll consider in the future. My priorities are Barrowman apologising and/or BF releasing a statement about misconduct, and reassurance that it hasn't happened there.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 21:14:54 GMT
The problem is Barrowman's behaviour is common knowledge amongst Doctor Who staff & cast members, it's also been talked about at conventions to a weirdly laughing audience. So its hard to imagine those that work at Big Finish & employ him were unaware of this. What do they do? Claim they didn't know? Say they misjudged things? Discretely draw his appearances to a close? I guess the real question is will Torchwood fans (which I am not) still buy stories featuring Captain Jack? It comes back to what I have said myself, in different words. It is in the past now and everyone has 'moved on'. As others said here earlier in the day, he remains a decent bloke in most peoples eyes, and seemed happy to make the fool of himself, not others. It may not have been acceptable, but he does not seem to have sought to humiliate others, but did however embarrass them severely, intentional or not. No excuses made for him, but at least he takes the rap for what we know of. And as said by the previous poster, he has apparently took the advice a long while back.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 1, 2021 21:34:39 GMT
The problem is Barrowman's behaviour is common knowledge amongst Doctor Who staff & cast members, it's also been talked about at conventions to a weirdly laughing audience. So its hard to imagine those that work at Big Finish & employ him were unaware of this. What do they do? Claim they didn't know? Say they misjudged things? Discretely draw his appearances to a close? I guess the real question is will Torchwood fans (which I am not) still buy stories featuring Captain Jack? It comes back to what I have said myself, in different words. It is in the past now and everyone has 'moved on'. As others said here earlier in the day, he remains a decent bloke in most peoples eyes, and seemed happy to make the fool of himself, not others. It may not have been acceptable, but he does not seem to have sought to humiliate others, but did however embarrass them severely, intentional or not. No excuses made for him, but at least he takes the rap for what we know of. And as said by the previous poster, he has apparently took the advice a long while back. Everyone's moved on? Its in the past? So I guess Noel Clarke will be back when enough time has elapsed? Maybe everyone hasn't moved on? There might have been others present who are now triggered again by all this resurfacing, or those that have laughed it off as a coping mechanism (which a lot of women do) reliving it. As for him not seeking to humiliate others, not sure how any of us can determine his intent with sexually harassing co-workers tbh but I know it is not acceptable in the workplace. If it were any other workplace he would have been sacked, & that is how I look at it, imagine this happening at our own offices, factories etc? What would happen? But as I said it us probably up to individuals as to how they react in terms of supporting him by buying his work done for BF. Its that rather tricky & ultimately personal issue of separating the art from the artist.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 1, 2021 21:42:29 GMT
IMHO it is a fine line, anyone absolutely has the right to choose to not financially support his pay by purchasing the stories and you shouldn't be begrudged for that at all. However, there is a point about what about supporting everyone else that worked hard on the stories? Is it fair to hurt them in their hip pockets so to speak?
Definitely an interesting and serious topic for sure.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 21:43:44 GMT
IMHO it is a fine line, anyone absolutely has the right to choose to not financially support his pay by purchasing the stories and you shouldn't be begrudged for that at all. However, there is a point about what about supporting everyone else that worked hard on the stories? Is it fair to hurt them in their hip pockets so to speak? Definitely an interesting and serious topic for sure. I think the question isn't about supporting what already exists, it's more about what they will do moving forward.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 1, 2021 21:48:21 GMT
IMHO it is a fine line, anyone absolutely has the right to choose to not financially support his pay by purchasing the stories and you shouldn't be begrudged for that at all. However, there is a point about what about supporting everyone else that worked hard on the stories? Is it fair to hurt them in their hip pockets so to speak? Definitely an interesting and serious topic for sure. Very true, through no fault of their own others involved with, in this case Barrowman's BF range, may suffer a financial loss. For me it reinforces my believe that those who commit such acts are quite narcissistic.
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 1, 2021 21:52:42 GMT
...There might have been others present who are now triggered again by all this resurfacing, or those that have laughed it off as a coping mechanism (which a lot of women do) reliving it. As for him not seeking to humiliate others, not sure how any of us can determine his intent with sexually harassing co-workers... This is the thing about Barrowman in particular. With Clarke, the allegations are undoubtedly sexually charged. With Barrowman, almost every account has said that he did everything as a joke, and that there was no sexual intent or objective for Barrowman himself. The issue is that this does not in any way make his behaviour acceptable. The unfortunate reality is, Barrowman is treated differently to Clarke, and I doubt anyone will come forward and allege sexual harassment or assault in Barrowman's case.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 22:08:28 GMT
It comes back to what I have said myself, in different words. It is in the past now and everyone has 'moved on'. As others said here earlier in the day, he remains a decent bloke in most peoples eyes, and seemed happy to make the fool of himself, not others. It may not have been acceptable, but he does not seem to have sought to humiliate others, but did however embarrass them severely, intentional or not. No excuses made for him, but at least he takes the rap for what we know of. And as said by the previous poster, he has apparently took the advice a long while back. Everyone's moved on? Its in the past? So I guess Noel Clarke will be back when enough time has elapsed? Maybe everyone hasn't moved on? There might have been others present who are now triggered again by all this resurfacing, or those that have laughed it off as a coping mechanism (which a lot of women do) reliving it. As for him not seeking to humiliate others, not sure how any of us can determine his intent with sexually harassing co-workers tbh but I know it is not acceptable in the workplace. If it were any other workplace he would have been sacked, & that is how I look at it, imagine this happening at our own offices, factories etc? What would happen? But as I said it us probably up to individuals as to how they react in terms of supporting him by buying his work done for BF. Its that rather tricky & ultimately personal issue of separating the art from the artist. I was merely trying to rationale the general situational placement or acceptance of others, Not mine. I was seeking agreement, not argument with you, nor validating nor propositioning a different point of view. As I have said, my previous post placed a perspective as to how things are allowed to pass as others are made complicit by inaction. I have no position to explain or justify any actions of others unconnected with myself.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 0:34:28 GMT
Just checked his Twitter, his last post he tagged someone, and that person responded telling him to never tag him again! I think it's getting serious this time for him. He has to even responded to the news or anything.
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Post by andrew on May 2, 2021 1:39:16 GMT
Just checked his Twitter, his last post he tagged someone, and that person responded telling him to never tag him again! I think it's getting serious this time for him. He has to even responded to the news or anything. Is that not more because he tagged the wrong person? He posted the same thing two days in a row. They replied to the first one by tagging the person John presumably meant to tag. When he repeated his post and dozens replied to John with comments on his behaviour, each reply also tagging the wrong person, they tried again to point out they weren’t who he thought they were. The other replies he is getting are angry. Difficult to see how long he can go without having to say or do something in response.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 3:02:08 GMT
Just checked his Twitter, his last post he tagged someone, and that person responded telling him to never tag him again! I think it's getting serious this time for him. He has to even responded to the news or anything. Is that not more because he tagged the wrong person? He posted the same thing two days in a row. They replied to the first one by tagging the person John presumably meant to tag. When he repeated his post and dozens replied to John with comments on his behaviour, each reply also tagging the wrong person, they tried again to point out they weren’t who he thought they were. The other replies he is getting are angry. Difficult to see how long he can go without having to say or do something in response. If you check Facebook, it's almost like there is a propaganda machine going on for him. Lots of posts trying to praise him (specifically Jack), but nothing for Noel.
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Post by theillusiveman on May 2, 2021 3:54:55 GMT
Will Big Finish continue using John barrowman ? Does this mean the lives of Captain Jack and Torchwood will stop?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 2, 2021 7:19:59 GMT
Will Big Finish continue using John barrowman ? Does this mean the lives of Captain Jack and Torchwood will stop? Public opinion will be the deciding factor I think. But hasn't BFs Torchwood had lots of adventures without Captain Jack? It could easily continue without him.
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 2, 2021 18:39:45 GMT
I suspect that BF will take their cue from the BBC on this, since Barrowman appears to be making a big appearance in the next DW series.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 2, 2021 18:44:12 GMT
I suspect that BF will take their cue from the BBC on this, since Barrowman appears to be making a big appearance in the next DW series. Hopefully its not too late for the BBC to rethink & get rid of him.
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