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Post by thelonecenturion on May 8, 2021 9:49:58 GMT
Gareth David-Lloyd speaks about Barrowman's behaviour on setHonestly, from this, and from what Barrowman and Julie Gardner said recently, unless anyone wants to specifically allege sexual harassment/assault against Barrowman, I'm struggling to see why any of it should affect his career going forward. He's admitted to making mistakes, he's said that he stopped doing any of it after Gardner asked him to, and it didn't affect any of the people involved negatively. I think as long as BF puts out a statement that clarifies their position on behaviour like this, and Barrowman doesn't do it ever again in future, and no one alleges Barrowman with a criminal offence, he should be able to continue playing Jack. It didn't affect any of the people involved negatively? I don't think that claim can be made tbh. Barrowman has belatedly admitted that his behaviour upset colleagues. & some that witnessed it said they felt uncomfortable. Also if his co-workers were all fine with it why have none of them who had his genitals placed on their body like Camille Coduri, come out to defend him? In situations like this, I don't think a witness is as important as the person it actually happened to. Imagine if it was the other way round, and the person it happened to felt uncomfortable but the witness laughed it off and said it was clearly a joke and meant no harm. Would you still take the witness's account over the personal one? That's not to say one shouldn't care about people's discomfort. But people can feel uncomfortable about a lot of things, and, as I say, no one has actually accused Barrowman of sexual misconduct.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 8, 2021 10:04:34 GMT
It didn't affect any of the people involved negatively? I don't think that claim can be made tbh. Barrowman has belatedly admitted that his behaviour upset colleagues. & some that witnessed it said they felt uncomfortable. Also if his co-workers were all fine with it why have none of them who had his genitals placed on their body like Camille Coduri, come out to defend him? In situations like this, I don't think a witness is as important as the person it actually happened to. Imagine if it was the other way round, and the person it happened to felt uncomfortable but the witness laughed it off and said it was clearly a joke and meant no harm. Would you still take the witness's account over the personal one? That's not to say one shouldn't care about people's discomfort. But people can feel uncomfortable about a lot of things, and, as I say, no one has actually accused Barrowman of sexual misconduct. True maybe but we don't know about the power dynamics, if people in lower positions were in the makeup room for example & saw this behaviour did Barrowman care about them? There have been claims of him walking around set with his genitals out when he was in Torchwood, many would have witnessed this. Again I keep coming back to the belief that this is a workplace setting so the same duty of care & levels of acceptable behaviour should apply & simply claiming it was tomfoolery is a strange justification. It appears that working on a TV show there's a more relaxed attitude to this behaviour for some weird reason, when complaints are raised such as with NC then the complainant is moved to a different area with seemingly nothing happening to the accused. Maybe I need to just accept that.
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Post by pawntake on May 8, 2021 10:29:06 GMT
So people who have a different opinion are not speaking reasonably or sanely? We can have different opinions on this without our opinion being negated like this. As for perspective some of us also think differently. Gardner apparently addressed the issues with Barrowman but then it was also the subject of a comedy song & continued to be used as hilarious annecdotes at conventions. There have also been mention of his behaviour on the set of Arrow which was later than 2008. I guess we will see what happens here & if the general public will still warm to him or want him on their tv. Give it a rest. Given the amount of time you spend here attacking others with opinions or views not aligned with your own, it's a bit rich to take personal objection to something which is more of a general observation of the wider context. Too many threads and discussions become dominated by the same routine. Time to let it go. yep! 23 or 24 mesages on this thread alone! He's got more "Rabbit" than Sainsbury's
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 8, 2021 10:59:03 GMT
Give it a rest. Given the amount of time you spend here attacking others with opinions or views not aligned with your own, it's a bit rich to take personal objection to something which is more of a general observation of the wider context. Too many threads and discussions become dominated by the same routine. Time to let it go. yep! 23 or 24 mesages on this thread alone! He's got more "Rabbit" than Sainsbury's Sorry. Didn't know there was a limit. Anyone annoyed please feel free to use the ignore function. Or if you're not interested in this thread/feel you've made your point just stop looking at it...
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Post by pawntake on May 8, 2021 11:11:05 GMT
yep! 23 or 24 mesages on this thread alone! He's got more "Rabbit" than Sainsbury's Sorry. Didn't know there was a limit. Anyone annoyed please feel free to use the ignore function. Or if you're not interested in this thread/feel you've made your point just stop looking at it... See you later! Agitator!!
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Post by antartiks on May 8, 2021 11:19:05 GMT
yep! 23 or 24 mesages on this thread alone! He's got more "Rabbit" than Sainsbury's Sorry. Didn't know there was a limit. Anyone annoyed please feel free to use the ignore function. Or if you're not interested in this thread/feel you've made your point just stop looking at it... You know, just because you apparently hate someone or something, doesn't mean you have to stop others from enjoying themselves. I'm not sure you're an avid listener of the Torchwood range - and if that's the case I apologize, I don't mean to judge anyone, I like this forum and come here everyday because it's probably the sanest Doctor Who forum out there - and yet you've been coming on this thread everyday for a while now. Again, I'm not here to judge or anything, but don't you think it's time to let it go ? Unlike Clarke's career which is probably ruined for the foreseeable future, I doubt things will go that far for Barrowman.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 8, 2021 12:36:57 GMT
Sorry. Didn't know there was a limit. Anyone annoyed please feel free to use the ignore function. Or if you're not interested in this thread/feel you've made your point just stop looking at it... You know, just because you apparently hate someone or something, doesn't mean you have to stop others from enjoying themselves. I'm not sure you're an avid listener of the Torchwood range - and if that's the case I apologize, I don't mean to judge anyone, I like this forum and come here everyday because it's probably the sanest Doctor Who forum out there - and yet you've been coming on this thread everyday for a while now. Again, I'm not here to judge or anything, but don't you think it's time to let it go ? Unlike Clarke's career which is probably ruined for the foreseeable future, I doubt things will go that far for Barrowman. Fair enough but I feel strongly about this & people are free to look at this thread or not. As I said, if the subject of any thread is if no interest or anyone thinks it has run its course they don't need to keep looking at it. There are plenty of threads I don't look at but wouldn't post on them telling people to let it go. & I would disagree that this thread is stopping others from enjoying themselves. Barrowman has got away with this for too long know but I guess others have a different view but then this thread is probably not for them.
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 8, 2021 12:46:57 GMT
You know, just because you apparently hate someone or something, doesn't mean you have to stop others from enjoying themselves. I'm not sure you're an avid listener of the Torchwood range - and if that's the case I apologize, I don't mean to judge anyone, I like this forum and come here everyday because it's probably the sanest Doctor Who forum out there - and yet you've been coming on this thread everyday for a while now. Again, I'm not here to judge or anything, but don't you think it's time to let it go ? Unlike Clarke's career which is probably ruined for the foreseeable future, I doubt things will go that far for Barrowman. Fair enough but I feel strongly about this & people are free to look at this thread or not. As I said, if the subject of any thread is if no interest or anyone thinks it has run its course they don't need to keep looking at it. There are plenty of threads I don't look at but wouldn't post on them telling people to let it go. & I would disagree that this thread is stopping others from enjoying themselves. Barrowman has got away with this for too long know but I guess others have a different view but then this thread is probably not for them. He hasn't got away with it for too long though. He started working on Doctor Who in 2005, and was reprimanded for his behaviour in 2008, and that's when he stopped. That was three years of it going on, and that was thirteen years ago.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 8, 2021 13:13:07 GMT
Fair enough but I feel strongly about this & people are free to look at this thread or not. As I said, if the subject of any thread is if no interest or anyone thinks it has run its course they don't need to keep looking at it. There are plenty of threads I don't look at but wouldn't post on them telling people to let it go. & I would disagree that this thread is stopping others from enjoying themselves. Barrowman has got away with this for too long know but I guess others have a different view but then this thread is probably not for them. He hasn't got away with it for too long though. He started working on Doctor Who in 2005, and was reprimanded for his behaviour in 2008, and that's when he stopped. That was three years of it going on, and that was thirteen years ago. Not sure how seriously that 'reprimand' can be taken when his behaviour was made light of in a song (The Ballad of Russell & Julie) which to me also doesn't sit well with RTDs defense that he never saw this behaviour. & of course for the fact that his behaviour was used as an amusing annecdote at conventions where everyone thought it was so hilarious. Also he continued similar behaviour on the set of Arrow. & of course there was his behaviour on BBC radio one in 2008 (not sure if this was before or after he was 'reprimanded' on TV).
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Post by thelonecenturion on May 8, 2021 13:16:22 GMT
He hasn't got away with it for too long though. He started working on Doctor Who in 2005, and was reprimanded for his behaviour in 2008, and that's when he stopped. That was three years of it going on, and that was thirteen years ago. Not sure how seriously that 'reprimand' can be taken when his behaviour was made light of in a song (The Ballad of Russell & Julie) which to me also doesn't sit well with RTDs defense that he never saw this behaviour. & of course for the fact that his behaviour was used as an amusing annecdote at conventions where everyone thought it was so hilarious. Also he continued similar behaviour on the set of Arrow. As stated before, the reprimand was taken seriously. Regardless of whether Barrowman or any of the cast treated what he did as a joke, it shouldn't have been going on. The song (and the anecdotes from various cast members) acknowledges that what he did was a joke, but it in no way condones the behaviour. As for Arrow, I've seen this mentioned a few times, but not actually found a source for it. Any chance you could point me in the way of one?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 8, 2021 13:20:46 GMT
Not sure how seriously that 'reprimand' can be taken when his behaviour was made light of in a song (The Ballad of Russell & Julie) which to me also doesn't sit well with RTDs defense that he never saw this behaviour. & of course for the fact that his behaviour was used as an amusing annecdote at conventions where everyone thought it was so hilarious. Also he continued similar behaviour on the set of Arrow. As stated before, the reprimand was taken seriously. Regardless of whether Barrowman or any of the cast treated what he did as a joke, it shouldn't have been going on. The song (and the anecdotes from various cast members) acknowledges that what he did was a joke, but it in no way condones the behaviour. As for Arrow, I've seen this mentioned a few times, but not actually found a source for it. Any chance you could point me in the way of one? Well I don't think it appropriate that after reprimanding someone for inappropriate behaviour that behaviour is joked about in a song with the perpetrator winking, doesn't seem like it was taken seriously. Here is a link to John Barrowman admitting that during filming of a scene he tweaked the nipples & suggests he cupped the (covered) genitals of a topless costar. www.gaystarnews.com/article/john-barrowman-enjoys-working-shirtless-stephen-amell-arrow300413/
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 9, 2021 17:38:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 21:04:36 GMT
Hes been kicked off time fracture.
So angry.
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Post by mark687 on May 11, 2021 21:14:09 GMT
We are in uncharted territory because now anyone in the industry who has ever done anything in recollections that could be considered inappropriate by the court of Social Media should be looked at and seemly loose their future job prospects, ie those on set who weren't offended by the incidents.
Also Q&As at Conventions are now next to gone they'll have be Moderated with a Capital M
For clarification I don't support this blanket approach but its seemly now the way forward
Regards
mark687
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Post by ollychops on May 11, 2021 21:52:32 GMT
Thing is, if he was genuinely doing it as a joke, whilst it's wholly inappropriate and he should be called up on it (and the fact that they still made light of it later on, even after he was spoken to about his actions shows that maybe he didn't take it as seriously as he should have done...) however he's not completely irredeemable like NC. I think Barrowman does need to do a proper apology, but I think there are parts of the fandom that find some glee in trying to ruin his career.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2021 22:08:47 GMT
As seen in this thread
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 11, 2021 22:58:31 GMT
Hes been kicked off time fracture. So angry. Good.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 11, 2021 23:01:49 GMT
We are in uncharted territory because now anyone in the industry who has ever done anything in recollections that could be considered inappropriate by the court of Social Media should be looked at and seemly loose their future job prospects, ie those on set who weren't offended by the incidents. Also Q&As at Conventions are now next to gone they'll have be Moderated with a Capital M For clarification I don't support this blanket approach but its seemly now the way forward Regards mark687 Big leap. It's not anything that could be considered inappropriate by the court of social media it's sexual harassment. Placing your genitals on a co-worker is not acceptable. Sexual harassment obviously isn't confined to the entertainment industry but the entertainment industry appears to treat it lightly. Doesn't want 'the talent' to be properly held to account. Enough is enough. As for not being offended, where are all these women who were harassed by Barrowman now? Why haven't any of them spoken out to say how they weren't offended? Why are none of them defending him?
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Post by theillusiveman on May 11, 2021 23:14:51 GMT
Hes been kicked off time fracture. So angry. Has he? Is there a news link?
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Post by mark687 on May 11, 2021 23:19:41 GMT
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