|
Post by elkawho on Oct 4, 2021 0:14:57 GMT
One of the things I really like about the relationship between Missy and The Monk here is that it really highlights the difference between them. For how much they have Rufus Hound play The Monk for comedy, the gets mighty serious. He realizes just how dangerous Missy is and it scares him.
Missy: What, is it too much for you? Monk: Yes, yes it is.
The Monk might be a meddler, but The Master/Missy is terrifying.
|
|
|
Post by Kestrel on Oct 4, 2021 20:02:46 GMT
Me listening to Missy and the Monk: the TLDR version -- Body and Soulless: I dunno why y'all are so down on this set, it's not great but it's pretty decent. War Seed: Okay, I can kinda see it. That was a bit generic. Two Monks One Mistress: oof.
.... .... .... .... So where I think I am now is here: probably a good idea to stop boxsets. Though I suspect I might be less down on this set than some of y'all: it's chief offense is that it's just kind of boring, which while disappointing, is a far cry from the insipidity of Missy 2 -- a set which I really think exemplifies all of Big Finish's worst impulses. Bit, uh, let's set that aside for now (and forever, why not) and dig into Missy 3. MIS 3.1: Body and Soulless- I suspect we can all agree this is the best story of the set, right?
- Pretty fun premise, though it feels like they don't quite know what to do with the Monk, and we therefore get a Master Lite. EG I don't really buy the Monk as a military strategist--that kind of thing requires the kind of long-term thinking that the Monk's character is kind of... entirely built upon him lacking. It also creates this weird dynamic where the Monk is framed parallel to the Master, which calls back to that whole Master Lite thing.
- Absolutely love the detail that Missy's favorite episode of Star Trek is, "Spock's Brain." Because of course it is.
- So the biggest problem with this story? The best scene in it is the one where Missy somehow convinces the Monk to remove his own brain... and they didn't bother to record it. Look, the whole point of writing a narrative in media res is to skip past the boring bits and jump right into the interesting stuff... not the opposite.
- The conclusion felt a tad Deus Ex Machina to me. Really leans in hard on that "mothership" trope -- you know the one. Where if the good guys just do the One Thing, the giant evil army conveniently disappears forever. Or as I like to frame it: using genocide as a narrative crutch. It's lazy, which is bad, but what's worse is that it's the most boring possible way to resolve conflict.
- Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Pet peeve and all.
- What I do really like is how this story (finally, three boxsets in) starts to lightly nod in the direction of Missy's TV arc. The one big problem with Moffat's Missy is that we were told that the Doctor saw something in her, some redemptive potential... but we, the audience, never really got to see that for ourselves. And here we finally get some of that! Sure, she's as self-serving as ever, but you can tell that Missy maybe enjoys playing a hero a bit more in this incarnation than others. Simply leaving the planet she saved--even knowing it's doomed--is not something I can really imagine any of the other Masters doing.
- And let's talk about that denouement. Missy is an exceedingly flamboyant, theatrical character. It was great to see her drop most of that affectation in the final scene with the Monk -- it lets her feel more like an actual, real-life person than the Manic Pixie Dream Villain she so often is in other stories.
MIS 3.2: War Seed- Not a whole lot to say on this one other than to lament the wasted potential. We've got the Master's child! But there's not much to them. We also get a opportunistic Evil Capitalist Villain... who is somehow even more toothless than the TV show's recent Trump expy. All of the ideas in this story are potentially really great... but they're just not taken far enough, the script just not tightened enough, to really shine. As result it feels, simply, generic. A by-the-numbers Doctor Who story where replacing the Doctor with the Master results in little more than slightly more snark.
- That lack of any real strong, narrative hook to grab our attention really helps clarify one of the reasons why, I think, this Boxset doesn't work. The Mink and the Master are both characters who can be very funny... but the humor they generate is very different. The Master tends to relish in macabre, black humor... whereas the Monk is more comic relief. And the two styles simply do not mesh well. Especially, as we see in the next story, without any drama to balance out the goofiness, or any "straight man" to play against.
- Still, though, and I can't stress this enough... this story could've been really good! The Master creating a child who is in a constant state of agony, incapable of dying. A woman so stupid she'd wonder aloud who won a nuclear war that never happened. A generic Doctor Who baddie marooned on a dead world surrounded by monsters for his hubris. It could've been so much more interesting with just a bit more editing and revision. If there's one ironclad commandment for writing, it is this: never, never, never skimp on revision!
MIS 3.3: Two Monks One Mistress- Ulgh... I don't even want to talk about this one. I just... consistently failed to connect with this story on just about every level.
- The script is just very grating. So much soliloquizing, constant use of the dreaded As-You-Know cliche, so much constant exposition... it was really hard to soldier on through to the end.
- And the BTS track is downright painful, because they make it clear that they were well aware of all the issues likely to get in the way of this story working. They were right: farce relies heavily on the physicality of theatre that does not exist on audio. They were right: comedic narrative needs to be balanced with drama to really land and this scripted is very unbalanced. Yet they recorded this anyway.
- To paraphrase The Incredibles (as I think I also did in response to the Rory boxset): when every line is supposed to be funny, no line is funny. Y'all noticed that, right? Literally every single line in this script is a joke. Every single one. So while there are occasionally some good jokes (child-bearing hips and all that) none of the, land even half so well as they should, because they're crowded out by all of the other jokes.
- Overall I feel like this set is built atop a fundamental misunderstanding of Missy's character. She can be funny, yes, but she is not a "comic character." This is the same reductive lens through which the Rory set was constructed. These characters are more than just vehicles for gags!
- Okay, I really wanna be done with this, but one last point. You know why we all love multi-Doctor stories so much? Because each incarnation of the Doctor is different to the others, and the friction produced by these differences is typically very engaging. So why is it that we have two Monks here... and they're portrayed as exactly the same person? What, then, is even the point?
So... yeah, I'm done here. A very underwhelming set. And I hate to keep harping on Rory, but it feels like a pretty clear pattern, yeah? Big Finish set out to make a "comedy boxset" -- and that's just something they absolutely do not know how to do well. They put all of their eggs in the basket of "being funny" which, just... why? And to add insult to injury, we're now being asked to pay more money for less content. This set consists of one fairly good story, one fairly mediocre story, and concludes with one helluva stinker. Imagine how different this set might be if there were a fourth story to balance it out? If nothing else there would have at least been the opportunity to end on a stronger note.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 4, 2021 20:05:01 GMT
So... yeah, I'm done here. A very underwhelming set. And I hate to keep harping on Rory, but it feels like a pretty clear pattern, yeah? Big Finish set out to make a "comedy boxset" -- and that's just something they absolutely do not know how to do well. They put all of their eggs in the basket of "being funny" which, just... why? So true. They should give up on comedy or just hire people that can actually write comedy.
|
|
|
Post by Chakoteya on Oct 5, 2021 11:07:32 GMT
The one big problem with Moffat's Missy is that we were told that the Doctor saw something in her, some redemptive potential... but we, the audience, never really got to see that for ourselves. And here we finally get some of that! Sure, she's as self-serving as ever, but you can tell that Missy maybe enjoys playing a hero a bit more in this incarnation than others. Simply leaving the planet she saved--even knowing it's doomed--is not something I can really imagine any of the other Masters doing. My personal private theory is once it was agreed to 'upgrade' the Master to the Mistress, it was also agreed that no female character can ever be totally evil. She must have feminine, soft, redeeming qualities even if they are left buried most of the time.
Something in the human psyche struggles with the concept of the totally evil woman, (think Myra Hindley and Rose West) probably because of the Mother connection to the gender - how can the half of the species that produces and raises the next generation be completely and utterly bad? Never going to be allowed on screen - or in audio.
|
|
|
Post by Chakoteya on Oct 5, 2021 14:29:43 GMT
Two Monks... Classic Commedia Dell'Arte (foolish old man, devious servants) and British Pantomime - leading male role played by a woman - also as in many Shakespearean comedies. Very 16th century.
With some great lines...
NUN: She seems very demanding, your mistress. MONK: Actually, as demented megalomaniacs go, she’s surprisingly easy-going.
But why have the Nun illustrated in a habit when she isn't wearing one in the story? Do they really think we're that daft that we can't cope with having a such blatent if inaccurate clue as to the character's identity??
|
|
|
Post by Kestrel on Oct 5, 2021 22:29:35 GMT
The one big problem with Moffat's Missy is that we were told that the Doctor saw something in her, some redemptive potential... but we, the audience, never really got to see that for ourselves. And here we finally get some of that! Sure, she's as self-serving as ever, but you can tell that Missy maybe enjoys playing a hero a bit more in this incarnation than others. Simply leaving the planet she saved--even knowing it's doomed--is not something I can really imagine any of the other Masters doing. My personal private theory is once it was agreed to 'upgrade' the Master to the Mistress, it was also agreed that no female character can ever be totally evil. She must have feminine, soft, redeeming qualities even if they are left buried most of the time.
Something in the human psyche struggles with the concept of the totally evil woman, (think Myra Hindley and Rose West) probably because of the Mother connection to the gender - how can the half of the species that produces and raises the next generation be completely and utterly bad? Never going to be allowed on screen - or in audio.
Does Missy have any soft, redeeming qualities, though? Her characterization doesn't really differ much--at all--from prior masters apart from being a bit more manic, and a bit more inclined towards mischief over murder (but only a bit). She's basically just the Simm Master dialed up to 11--even her "romantic" fixation in the Doctor can be read as originating in the homoerotic subtext of the Simm/Tennant stories. Her capacity for "redemption" is an informed characteristic that we don't really ever get to see in her actions or performance until the actual episode where she is "redeemed." This is why I like the first story in this set--it's the only Missy story that really suggests at there being more to her than just a desire to dominate everything in her path.
|
|
|
Post by Chakoteya on Oct 6, 2021 7:47:12 GMT
A cracking sense of humour? and see my signature?
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,966
|
Post by mbt66 on Oct 9, 2021 16:15:49 GMT
Two Monks... Classic Commedia Dell'Arte (foolish old man, devious servants) and British Pantomime - leading male role played by a woman - also as in many Shakespearean comedies. Very 16th century.
With some great lines...
NUN: She seems very demanding, your mistress. MONK: Actually, as demented megalomaniacs go, she’s surprisingly easy-going.
But why have the Nun illustrated in a habit when she isn't wearing one in the story? Do they really think we're that daft that we can't cope with having a such blatent if inaccurate clue as to the character's identity??
I confess I was picturing her as being in a Nun’s habit until she was talking to Missy about her name and it became obvious she wasn’t. If she hadn’t been pictured on the cover in that outfit I probably wouldn’t have made that mistake.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2021 17:05:13 GMT
I got tired of BF and ~Nuns-River did it find something interesting and new
|
|
|
Post by bohnny on Oct 22, 2021 10:06:34 GMT
I really quite enjoyed this. I held off a day or two to be in the right mood, then chocks away and with right mood firmly in place it didn’t disappoint. Lots of fun dialogue. There’s a brilliant reference to Time Flight at one point that’s just comedy gold! It’s been interesting reading the different views on the box set though. I think maybe a stronger link between the three parts might be the way to go for the next boxset. Possibly with a bit more edge and a smidge less comedy. But overall, I was very happy with this. i think this was the key for me. It didn’t really work on a first listen; it was fine but didn’t grab me. i listened to it again a few weeks later and really enjoyed it. Still not a ‘top 10’ but a lot more fun. I didn’t particularly pick a time when I was really in the mood for a laugh but I guess I must have been because somehow it clicked second time around.
|
|
|
Post by Kestrel on Oct 23, 2021 1:59:13 GMT
Wasn't the first set all about Missy building a super-TARDIS, or something? Seems kind of weird there wasn't much follow-up.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Oct 23, 2021 7:10:20 GMT
Wasn't the first set all about Missy building a super-TARDIS, or something? Seems kind of weird there wasn't much follow-up. Yeah, the first set is Missy getting the Master TARDIS, which she does in the end. It sort of vanishes at the beginning of the second set and she miraculously gets it again by the end of the third. There’s not much consistency with it and it’s to the detriment of the range; when I finished Series 3, I was just thinking about the 7 stories I had to endure just to get back to the same place Series 1 ended!
|
|
|
Post by nottenst on Oct 29, 2021 16:13:19 GMT
Overall I enjoyed the set. 3 tales of Missy and the Monk together with it resolving with them both under their own power at the end. The first two had elaborate plots of Missy sort of cleaning up a previous mess that Missy or The Master was responsible for in the first place. My favorite part of Body and Soulless was Missy and the Monk battling against each other with each temporarily having the upper hand. The War Seed was quite an intriguing concept and I wonder when we will see him again. Two Monks One Mistress was just pure farce and you need to be in the mood for it. I was.
Two Monks One Mistress revealed to me that I completely misinterpreted her first appearance. I did not take it as a regeneration, but just an elaborate illusion. Of course that does mean that we now need stories about the Monk from whom she regenerated. He seemed more of the more serious Monk that some people here would like to see.
|
|
|
Post by kennysmith on Nov 7, 2021 19:26:17 GMT
There's chat about all three Missy series, including the latest, from Roy Gill in his first-ever podcast chat, Johnny Candon on War Seed, and musician and sound designer Joe Kraemer, in this week's Power of 3 podcast. Listen to 86: Hey Missy! by The Power of 3 Podcast on #SoundCloud soundcloud.app.goo.gl/U6EVB
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Feb 8, 2022 21:02:53 GMT
Well, this was not bad. From what some people said here, I had expected something not as good. This is a fun set of stories, Missy and the Monk bounce off each other and there are many hilarious exchanges and scenes. This was created with fun in mind, and fun it is. However, it lacks a lot of depth and finesse. Sadly, the stories themselves are neither very original nor particularly memorable. Many of the things that will happen you can guess from a mile away, and it lives of the anticipation of when the penny will drop. Performance of the leads is top notch. So yes, this is a fun set, and if you like Missy, you will definitely enjoy this. But it is far from perfect, nor does it reach the freshness of the previous Missy sets.
|
|