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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 5, 2021 21:40:51 GMT
Lydia West would be a better choice, for at least ONE reason anyway. Casting a man again will inevitably feed the toxic vultures who will declare, no matter the reasons for the casting or the talents of the person cast, that it somehow "proves" they were right all along that a woman shouldn't be the Doctor But the next big whinge on the fandom horizon is cliquey casting - bringing back an old producer, casting his mates again. There needs to be an influx of completely fresh blood. Yep but with RTD & co back there is no fresh blood. This is why I'm not very excited about RTD2.
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 5, 2021 21:58:39 GMT
No we want more Who not less! Would it really be less Doctor Who than we already have? The COVID reductions notwithstanding, Chibnall has already whittled us down to 10 episodes every other year, to which a trio of two-hour specials per year would be an improvement. Well, quantity-wise at least.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 5, 2021 22:46:53 GMT
No we want more Who not less! Would it really be less Doctor Who than we already have? The COVID reductions notwithstanding, Chibnall has already whittled us down to 10 episodes every other year, to which a trio of two-hour specials per year would be an improvement. Well, quantity-wise at least. But I want more than we already have.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 5, 2021 22:59:25 GMT
Would it really be less Doctor Who than we already have? The COVID reductions notwithstanding, Chibnall has already whittled us down to 10 episodes every other year, to which a trio of two-hour specials per year would be an improvement. Well, quantity-wise at least. But I want more than we already have. Thing is, that might not be up to RTD or the showrunner at all. Even a big expensive show like His Dark Materials (from Bad Wolf too) is only 8 episodes.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 5, 2021 23:02:17 GMT
But I want more than we already have. Thing is, that might not be up to RTD or the showrunner at all. Even a big expensive show like His Dark Materials (from Bad Wolf too) is only 8 episodes. I know. I am just saying what I want.
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Post by theillusiveman on Nov 6, 2021 0:03:29 GMT
No we want more Who not less! I hope this is true. If we can't have Jo Martin it MUST be Lydia West. Lydia West would be a better choice, for at least ONE reason anyway. Casting a man again will inevitably feed the toxic vultures who will declare, no matter the reasons for the casting or the talents of the person cast, that it somehow "proves" they were right all along that a woman shouldn't be the Doctor and that 13 was a serious misstep and now the show is "back on the right track". I would love if this wasn't true but we all know it is. Lol I can imagine Twitter having a meltdown if RTD casts a male doctor
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 6, 2021 7:52:02 GMT
Lydia West would be a better choice, for at least ONE reason anyway. Casting a man again will inevitably feed the toxic vultures who will declare, no matter the reasons for the casting or the talents of the person cast, that it somehow "proves" they were right all along that a woman shouldn't be the Doctor and that 13 was a serious misstep and now the show is "back on the right track". I would love if this wasn't true but we all know it is. Lol I can imagine Twitter having a meltdown if RTD casts a male doctor I don't think twitter would have a meltdown but I would imagine a lot of strong responses from those that like a female doctor & those that don't. If the show is to survive & remain diverse & relevant then it would be a regressive move to go back to a man.
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Post by theillusiveman on Nov 6, 2021 8:08:39 GMT
Lol I can imagine Twitter having a meltdown if RTD casts a male doctor I don't think twitter would have a meltdown but I would imagine a lot of strong responses from those that like a female doctor & those that don't. If the show is to survive & remain diverse & relevant then it would be a regressive move to go back to a man. If the show is to survive there needs to be strong writing and acting
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 6, 2021 8:17:38 GMT
The show needs to cast the best actor in the role male or female, I'd like Tom Ellis play the part or Tom Burke, female Joanne Froggat she's been amazing in Angela Black.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 6, 2021 9:10:42 GMT
I don't think twitter would have a meltdown but I would imagine a lot of strong responses from those that like a female doctor & those that don't. If the show is to survive & remain diverse & relevant then it would be a regressive move to go back to a man. If the show is to survive there needs to be strong writing and acting
But then the debate becomes circular and it's a never ending cycle where nothing improves or changes: the idea you can't be diverse, reflecting the real world of the 21st century as well as, you know, sci-fi fans come in all forms, and have good writing (whatever that means nowadays, because it's been rendered hollow like 'overrated' or 'epic') at the same time is utter nonsense. Even RTD just disproved that with It's A Sin.
Twitter will be mad, whatever the show does because it's Twitter. Look what just happened to Nadia Albina - never made a big deal about her disability, and people still chose to dismiss a veteran actress with Shakespeare on her resume as a 'box tick'.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Nov 6, 2021 9:25:29 GMT
I don't think twitter would have a meltdown but I would imagine a lot of strong responses from those that like a female doctor & those that don't. If the show is to survive & remain diverse & relevant then it would be a regressive move to go back to a man. If the show is to survive there needs to be strong writing and acting
Well yes obviously it needs to be well written and acted that's a given but without it reflecting the modern world it would just become anachronistic, a curio for old fans & having nothing to offer a modern young audience.
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Post by commonman on Nov 6, 2021 10:51:36 GMT
RTD strikes me as someone very aware of representation issues with the casting of a Doctor and whether it would be progressive or regressive. Of course we all want the 'best actor for the role' but only RTD knows what he actually wants the role to be, the plotlines related to it and what audition profiles suits his vision.
For what it's worth (not much), I personally believe that if RTD has any say in the matter, then the next Doctor will not be a cis man
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Post by elkawho on Nov 6, 2021 13:42:07 GMT
And there's another factor at play here. Yes, I prefer a male Doctor, but I will be very happy with anyone who can do the role justice, (Unfortunately, I can't say that about Jodie Whitaker, but that's for a whole other thread.) and who is willing to take the role. We all may think it's a no brainer, why would anyone turn it down? But there are plenty of actors who have no desire to take on this juggernaut of a role and show, or who don't want to be associated with it for one reason or another. Because to be fair, it's not as much of a flagship show as it used to be. I'm hoping this changes with RTD, but it's still a gamble.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 7, 2021 12:51:33 GMT
Arguably, as soon as anybody says 'X characteristic cannot be cast' is the point at which provision to consider X must be made. (Quite apart from anything else, there are laws about positive discrimination, which some fans seem to be unaware of).
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Post by sherlock on Nov 7, 2021 14:02:30 GMT
Well that’s not a denial…
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 7, 2021 14:32:22 GMT
Arguably, as soon as anybody says 'X characteristic cannot be cast' is the point at which provision to consider X must be made. (Quite apart from anything else, there are laws about positive discrimination, which some fans seem to be unaware of). Not so much your comment, this is just a broader point about this topic: my hackles always get raised whenever fans claim there's a 'diversity quota' on the show when talking about the talent they see. They'll cite the BBC's own policy as proof - except if you read it, it'll become obvious creative roles (actors, writers, directors) are not governed by this requirement. Nothing can force Chibb or RTD to hire someone, unless they themselves want to. Almost all 'diversity' requirements in film and television are for below the line talent (people who are not in creative or leading roles - gaffers, cameramen, set builders, script supervisors, costumers etc.) and other roles that aren't the people you usually hear about.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Nov 7, 2021 16:05:42 GMT
RTD strikes me as someone very aware of representation issues with the casting of a Doctor and whether it would be progressive or regressive. Of course we all want the 'best actor for the role' but only RTD knows what he actually wants the role to be, the plotlines related to it and what audition profiles suits his vision. For what it's worth (not much), I personally believe that if RTD has any say in the matter, then the next Doctor will not be a cis man RTD is going to do whatever RTD is going to do, that's a given. We all know that. But it's not 2004 anymore and he doesn't have a "clean slate" coming in. While the so-called "diversity quota" doesn't apply to the talent (terrible word), he is most definitely aware of the optics, to use another awful term. Plus he's a friend of Chris Chibnall and a declared fan of the 13 era, so hiring a cis man is probably out, especially a white one, and frankly hiring any man will feed into that toxic miasma I mentioned earlier where it will be used to undermine and "erase" 13's tenure as, at the least, a misstep and at the worst...well, who knows how far the vitriol goes? A mental exercise that occurred to me while considering all this, and bear with me if I don't phrase it so well since I'm working it out as I go along. There's no intention to offend here: In universe the Doctor can regenerate to any form, gender, sexuality et cetera, correct? So we've had male and female, we could have non-binary too. However, while trans actors could easily play the Doctor I'm currently thinking - in universe - I cannot see any reason for the Doctor themselves to be trans considering how regeneration seems to work. Add to this the need for accurate trans representation, which regeneration seems to short cut, since you could argue that the Doctor is ALREADY recognisably trans following 13's existence - at least in one direction, and could go the other way if/when a male Doctor is cast again in the future. Now, I know I'm not phrasing that well, so if any of our trans or non binary community wants to put me right then feel free.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 7, 2021 16:30:25 GMT
RTD will have more LGBTQ characters, I think we all know that'll be a given. What worries me, and the last few years have exacerbated this, is the media and fandom reaction. Especially towards trans characters, whether they're a companion or regular - with how toxic the press is to the community, will they be safe and made to feel welcome? They can't count on the whole fandom having their back (however good 'the writing' is will not matter one drop here), and the job is going to require them to be heavily in the media spotlight.
From where I sit, this is a more difficult, and perhaps more important question than 'if A or B play 14' - We can all see the headlines, we can all see what's going to be said online - even if the kids absolutely love them, there will be scare stories of parents refusing to let their kids watch because 'reasons'. And even with RTD's vocal support, will it be worth an actor having a target arguably as big, if not bigger, than a female Doctor's, painted on them? Are they safe at a con? On a set?
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Post by commonman on Nov 7, 2021 19:37:22 GMT
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 7, 2021 20:18:56 GMT
RTD will have more LGBTQ characters, I think we all know that'll be a given. What worries me, and the last few years have exacerbated this, is the media and fandom reaction. Especially towards trans characters, whether they're a companion or regular - with how toxic the press is to the community, will they be safe and made to feel welcome? They can't count on the whole fandom having their back (however good 'the writing' is will not matter one drop here), and the job is going to require them to be heavily in the media spotlight. From where I sit, this is a more difficult, and perhaps more important question than 'if A or B play 14' - We can all see the headlines, we can all see what's going to be said online - even if the kids absolutely love them, there will be scare stories of parents refusing to let their kids watch because 'reasons'. And even with RTD's vocal support, will it be worth an actor having a target arguably as big, if not bigger, than a female Doctor's, painted on them? Are they safe at a con? On a set? I'm also worried about the treatment of potential cast members (and writers, etc). "Fandom" and the media have gotten really ugly. I think within the fandom, we all need to make sure we shut down that bigotry and harassment as soon as we see it – blocking, reporting, and showing a clear support for the cast and opposition to prejudice – but there's only so much we can do when there's an entire industry devoted to churning out YouTube videos about "wokeness" and "forced diversity." And with the media, there's absolutely nothing we can do except call it out. When the BBC itself feels comfortable putting out anti-Trans articles, how much could we count on them to protect actors? It's important to have diversity anyway, because without it we're giving in to what the bigots want and people need to see the full range of humanity in stories, but I hate that the actors' safety (particularly their mental well-being) is a legitimate concern.
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