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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2021 15:11:47 GMT
Since we all love Big Finish here, what we're everyone's opinions on when 13 met Mary Shelley? It bothered me A LOT personally, but since than I've had to just assume I need to blame the Time War on it. How did everyone deal with their head canon?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Sept 30, 2021 15:15:58 GMT
I say that The Big Finish Trilogy happened, but either the Time War or the effects of the rift and that caused ALOT of memory issues for Mary and the rest of the houseguests
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Post by timegirl on Sept 30, 2021 15:17:06 GMT
Also either Time War/alternate timelines or maybe one Doctor showed up after the other. Perhaps one day BF can do a story that addresses the two diverging Mary Shelley encounters?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2021 15:29:24 GMT
It was massively disrespectful of Chibbs to disregard 8's adventures, therefore as I mentioned, I HAVE to assume it's Time War related, and it was erased, but due to whatever reason, The Doctor is destined to meet her.
... That's me anyways, my head canon revolves around the Eighth Doctor... And this messed me up even worse than the Timeless Child nonsense.
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 30, 2021 15:30:36 GMT
Honestly it pretty much confirmed that Big Finish's Doctor Who Audios take place in another timeline or are no longer canon then agian i think that everything after Twice Upon A Time Isnt canon and 13's era is a AU Unbound Universe
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 30, 2021 15:31:55 GMT
i mean people want to use the time war excuse to explain it makes no sense how the time war would affect a huge part of Mary Shelly and The 8th Doctor's life
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Post by constonks on Sept 30, 2021 16:02:30 GMT
There's a very easy Time War excuse, actually, and it's built into Mary's first story! The Eighth Doctor crashed at the Villa Diodati due to a time storm near the end of his life (presumably during the Time War), which led to his much-younger self meeting Mary for the first time.
Presumably, that time storm - being an event of the Time War - could have happened, unhappened, rehappened and semi-happened, depending on past and future actions of the Daleks and the Time Lords... the same way the Ogrons were never in Day of the Daleks until the timeline was altered in 8DTW 2 - despite what you may remember from the Third Doctor era!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2021 16:06:06 GMT
There's a very easy Time War excuse, actually, and it's built into Mary's first story! The Eighth Doctor crashed at the Villa Diodati due to a time storm near the end of his life (presumably during the Time War), which led to his much-younger self meeting Mary for the first time. Presumably, that time storm - being an event of the Time War - could have happened, unhappened, rehappened and semi-happened, depending on past and future actions of the Daleks and the Time Lords... the same way the Ogrons were never in Day of the Daleks until the timeline was altered in 8DTW 2 - despite what you may remember from the Third Doctor era! This is my head canon for every inconsistency in DW, articulated better than I ever could. It even allows Barnes Common to be canon!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2021 18:16:58 GMT
i mean people want to use the time war excuse to explain it makes no sense how the time war would affect a huge part of Mary Shelly and The 8th Doctor's life Actually, if you listen to the first story in the Time War volume 1 boxset, his companions in the beginning keep getting erased from the adventure, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to have had a affect on his travels. THAT SAID, Chibbs could have easily added a smirk or brief mention of having known her previously... Thus it's disrespectful and lazy.
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shutupbanks
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 30, 2021 23:09:56 GMT
It was massively disrespectful of Chibbs to disregard 8's adventures, therefore as I mentioned, I HAVE to assume it's Time War related, and it was erased, but due to whatever reason, The Doctor is destined to meet her. ... That's me anyways, my head canon revolves around the Eighth Doctor... And this messed me up even worse than the Timeless Child nonsense. She was the only major companion (to that time, anyway) not name-checked in Night Of The Doctor so I’m guessing - because it was a brilliant connection to make - that the temptation to resist a Frankenstein comparison to the Cybermen was too great.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2021 6:14:22 GMT
I think some people are worrying about this way too much. It's a time travel show, and across it's almost sixty years of history it's continually contradicting itself. The Time War genuinely does explain everything, especially in Mary's case, as eights first encounter with her is clearly linked to the Time War. Since eight didn't name her in Night of the Doctor, it's safe to assume that all happened in a timeline which is gone and rewritten. That isn't disrespectful of anyone to anything, it's just writers not wanting to be burdened by sixty years of what has gone before.
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Post by theillusiveman on Oct 1, 2021 6:37:15 GMT
i mean people want to use the time war excuse to explain it makes no sense how the time war would affect a huge part of Mary Shelly and The 8th Doctor's life Actually, if you listen to the first story in the Time War volume 1 boxset, his companions in the beginning keep getting erased from the adventure, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to have had a affect on his travels. THAT SAID, Chibbs could have easily added a smirk or brief mention of having known her previously... Thus it's disrespectful and lazy. The thing is though Sheena got erased from time for good Mary Shelly being erased or such would cause so many issues For the web of time Disrespectful and lazy are the prime indicators that Chris Chibnall is involved with a production
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 1, 2021 10:39:16 GMT
BF is made no less canon by Haunting of Villa Diodati contradicting the Mary Shelley audios than the classic series is made less canon by The End of the World contradicting The Ark. Or Atlantis being destroyed three times, or the Doctor being half human once, or suddenly growing a second heart.
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shutupbanks
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Oct 1, 2021 11:15:02 GMT
Actually, if you listen to the first story in the Time War volume 1 boxset, his companions in the beginning keep getting erased from the adventure, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to have had a affect on his travels. THAT SAID, Chibbs could have easily added a smirk or brief mention of having known her previously... Thus it's disrespectful and lazy. The thing is though Sheena got erased from time for good Mary Shelly being erased or such would cause so many issues For the web of time Disrespectful and lazy are the prime indicators that Chris Chibnall is involved with a production Respectfully disagreeing. The tv series is the prime canon/ reality for the show. However, meeting the same figure twice in a fictional series without acknowledging the other meeting is not a sign of disrespect or laziness when one is watched by millions and the other is listened to by a few thousand at best.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 1, 2021 11:22:35 GMT
Actually, if you listen to the first story in the Time War volume 1 boxset, his companions in the beginning keep getting erased from the adventure, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to have had a affect on his travels. THAT SAID, Chibbs could have easily added a smirk or brief mention of having known her previously... Thus it's disrespectful and lazy. The thing is though Sheena got erased from time for good Mary Shelly being erased or such would cause so many issues For the web of time Disrespectful and lazy are the prime indicators that Chris Chibnall is involved with a production Don't think it's disrespectful or lazy for Chibnall to use Mary Shelley & not mention any previous encounters especially as BF is niche & many TV fans have no knowledge of it. Has every incidence of contradiction between the TV show & BF been mentioned (or indeed any incidence of the TV show contradicting itself) or is this, as I suspect, another attempt at Chibnall bashing?
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Post by Kestrel on Oct 1, 2021 14:31:14 GMT
I don't really care about the continuity TBH. Doctor Who is, at heart, an episodic series... it was never intended to have much in the way of meaningful continuity, and creating coherent continuity doesn't really add anything to the stories IMO. (Outside of the TARDIS crew, of course.)
Villa Diodacchi was one of the few entertaining stories of recent TV Who, so I'm inclined to give it a pass. And it's not like anything in it explicitly contradicts the 8/Shelley run, as I remember it (though my relisten has stalled out after 1/4) so I'm not bothered by it in the least.
And in general I think it's not great to expect modern TV Who to recognize or adhere to continuity from Classic Who, let alone Big Finish or the many and myriad novels.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2021 15:33:41 GMT
Disrespectful and lazy are the prime indicators that Chris Chibnall is involved with a production Don't think it's disrespectful or lazy for Chibnall to use Mary Shelley & not mention any previous encounters especially as BF is niche & many TV fans have no knowledge of it. Yeah, the Big Finish stories are Mickey Mouse compared to the TV show. Expecting Chris Chibnall (or anyone) to link their creativity in to Doctor Who audio stories that are largely irrelevant to the majority of the show's TV viewers is an unreasonable expectation.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 1, 2021 16:08:30 GMT
Considering Who rewrites its canon all the time (and BF does this too, let's not pretend), I don't think this is a particularly egregious or notable thing to hold against Haunting. Besides, you don't even need a Time War card here to explain it: Ashad was monkeying around with time and reality itself in his search, so you already have an explanation built into the story - they still happened for the Doctor, so still counts, but maybe not for the version of Mary we meet here.
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Post by muckypup on Oct 1, 2021 18:06:19 GMT
I just let it go, it’s impossible to keep everything in continuity now…….
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 1, 2021 18:37:54 GMT
Now look, I like Silver Turk too, but would anyone here really put the Shelley series as among BF's best, or even the best of 8? Did Mary really have that much, or even that great, an arc across the four stories that we really lose much anyway?
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