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Post by mark687 on Jun 21, 2022 10:16:32 GMT
Is it only stuff already available for pre-order and due to be released after 1 November that will be affected? Will new announcements between now and 1 November for stuff coming out after 1 November offer a pre-order price that will increase after 1 November, or will they all just be announced at the new post November pre-order price from the off? Or do we not know this? That's MY Understanding but its by no means clear. Regards mark687
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 21, 2022 11:56:38 GMT
Is it only stuff already available for pre-order and due to be released after 1 November that will be affected? Will new announcements between now and 1 November for stuff coming out after 1 November offer a pre-order price that will increase after 1 November, or will they all just be announced at the new post November pre-order price from the off? Or do we not know this? That's MY Understanding but its by no means clear. Regards mark687 That’s mine too based on the information, or lack thereof, provided. If they can’t confirm the increases currently then it doesn’t seem likely any new announcements will be listed with anything other than the current prices. It does bring another question against the price rises without addressing questions, concerns and issues; so much of what is coming up and yet to be announced will already be in the can. So where is the justification to increase those, future CD pressing and packaging costs notwithstanding?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 21, 2022 12:09:50 GMT
I think some sort of loyalty scheme would be really good - maybe you get a certain number of points for each purchase you make, and you can eventually claim discounts/bonus releases with these points? I think they’ve said a loyalty scheme and gift cards are a restriction of the website. There’s another discussion to be had about how they handled the implementation and scalability of that, but let’s not go there…!It is a shame, though, as I think there’s a lot of untapped custom to be had by implementing those. It’s psychological but if you got a stamp for every tenner spent then I’d definitely be tempted to do orders a few sets at a time and add a bigger chunk of money to Big Finish. Similarly I’d love to be able to gift sets as it’s much easier than trying to lend someone a CD or trying to get them to jump onto a sale and spending their own money without being 100% sure. Yes it is. When your tools for making money limit the amount of money a business can make, it is time to get new tools. The web site is just another example that the business end of BF limits them. A loyalty/points system would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase gift cards would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase downloads for friends would absolutely help drive sales.
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 21, 2022 12:50:13 GMT
I think they’ve said a loyalty scheme and gift cards are a restriction of the website. There’s another discussion to be had about how they handled the implementation and scalability of that, but let’s not go there…!It is a shame, though, as I think there’s a lot of untapped custom to be had by implementing those. It’s psychological but if you got a stamp for every tenner spent then I’d definitely be tempted to do orders a few sets at a time and add a bigger chunk of money to Big Finish. Similarly I’d love to be able to gift sets as it’s much easier than trying to lend someone a CD or trying to get them to jump onto a sale and spending their own money without being 100% sure. Yes it is. When your tools for making money limit the amount of money a business can make, it is time to get new tools. The web site is just another example that the business end of BF limits them. A loyalty/points system would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase gift cards would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase downloads for friends would absolutely help drive sales. Based on experience with these types of implementations, they’re usually less technical restrictions and more a lack of due diligence and forward thinking. Someone external was hired to do the website, they did it to spec (whether they were successful or not, your mileage will vary), got the sign off and paid and that’s the end of it. The handover will be basic administration to add new pages, products, news pieces, etc. and little else. So when new functionality is required there’s no internal knowledge and adding it will have a cost associated that they’re either unwilling to pay or it’s not justified. Been involved with and picked up the pieces for so many of these types of initiatives over the years.
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Post by kipperserver on Jun 21, 2022 21:36:21 GMT
Yes it is. When your tools for making money limit the amount of money a business can make, it is time to get new tools. The web site is just another example that the business end of BF limits them. A loyalty/points system would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase gift cards would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase downloads for friends would absolutely help drive sales. Based on experience with these types of implementations, they’re usually less technical restrictions and more a lack of due diligence and forward thinking. Someone external was hired to do the website, they did it to spec (whether they were successful or not, your mileage will vary), got the sign off and paid and that’s the end of it. The handover will be basic administration to add new pages, products, news pieces, etc. and little else. So when new functionality is required there’s no internal knowledge and adding it will have a cost associated that they’re either unwilling to pay or it’s not justified. Been involved with and picked up the pieces for so many of these types of initiatives over the years. The Big Finish website was by www.hughesmedia.co.uk/
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Post by kipperserver on Jun 21, 2022 21:37:50 GMT
I think they’ve said a loyalty scheme and gift cards are a restriction of the website. There’s another discussion to be had about how they handled the implementation and scalability of that, but let’s not go there…!It is a shame, though, as I think there’s a lot of untapped custom to be had by implementing those. It’s psychological but if you got a stamp for every tenner spent then I’d definitely be tempted to do orders a few sets at a time and add a bigger chunk of money to Big Finish. Similarly I’d love to be able to gift sets as it’s much easier than trying to lend someone a CD or trying to get them to jump onto a sale and spending their own money without being 100% sure. Yes it is. When your tools for making money limit the amount of money a business can make, it is time to get new tools. The web site is just another example that the business end of BF limits them. A loyalty/points system would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase gift cards would absolutely help drive sales. Being able to purchase downloads for friends would absolutely help drive sales. This! All of this! It's absoulutely maddening when my family asks me what I want for Birthdy/Christmas etc and I say "Big Finish, please" and they can't buy me anything.
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Post by kipperserver on Jun 21, 2022 21:40:22 GMT
That's MY Understanding but its by no means clear. Regards mark687 That’s mine too based on the information, or lack thereof, provided. If they can’t confirm the increases currently then it doesn’t seem likely any new announcements will be listed with anything other than the current prices. It does bring another question against the price rises without addressing questions, concerns and issues; so much of what is coming up and yet to be announced will already be in the can. So where is the justification to increase those, future CD pressing and packaging costs notwithstanding? Maybe some of those in the can things cost more to make? We know Chris Eclleston was in it for the money so maybe he was v. expensive. And David Tennant seems to have trecorded about 1000 stories with them during the pandemic. WE're just guessing because BF doesn't advertise how much there stuff costs to make - and they have no reason too.
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 22, 2022 6:31:01 GMT
That’s mine too based on the information, or lack thereof, provided. If they can’t confirm the increases currently then it doesn’t seem likely any new announcements will be listed with anything other than the current prices. It does bring another question against the price rises without addressing questions, concerns and issues; so much of what is coming up and yet to be announced will already be in the can. So where is the justification to increase those, future CD pressing and packaging costs notwithstanding? Maybe some of those in the can things cost more to make? We know Chris Eclleston was in it for the money so maybe he was v. expensive. And David Tennant seems to have trecorded about 1000 stories with them during the pandemic. WE're just guessing because BF doesn't advertise how much there stuff costs to make - and they have no reason too. Nobody is saying they should advertise how much their stuff costs to make. However, they have such a structured pricing and numerous other issues that should be addressed before just deciding to increase prices of releases. My question is perfectly valid and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask them or have them answered without going into specific details. It’s just another to add to the pile. If you think that they’re making a loss on Tennant or Eccleston releases then you’re kidding yourself. They would have no qualms with increasing the prices of those sets if needed. Indeed both their ranges are £3/£5 dearer on Download/CD than the equivalent from the classic Doctors.
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Post by thewatcher on Jun 22, 2022 11:05:34 GMT
Inevitable this isn't it. But sad that it has been badly communicated to us loyal fans.
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 22, 2022 20:08:56 GMT
Something is definitely going pear shaped with Big Finish. I still am completely on shallacatop ' s side. I think you are onto something! When buying a BF release, I first compare it to all the wonderful audio dramas on offer here in Germany- and we have quite a few great companies producing quality product featuring all our beloved actors. And these actors are not small fry or amateurs, but true legends. Some of them leave most of the BF actors in the dust, performance wise. From now on, I am now ONLY talking about downloads!Now, when I buy a release of my favorite German series, that is 7 Euro. This is a BIG company, they sell more than 120000 copies of each release. A new series, which I just discovered and which has some of the same high quality actors, is 6 Euro. Smaller company, not sure what their sale figures are. These releases are slightly longer than the usual BF Torchwood release, when I buy a Torchwood monthly download, it is 9 Euro (and yes, I am aware of the international pricing issues). All these have very comparable quality- BF and the German companies have decades worth of experience, sound effects and music are top tier, the actors are legendary, the writers are great or at least above average most of the time. So how can these price differences be explained? What do the Germans do differently that makes the audios cheaper over here? I do not think it is the price of petrol or the lack of truck drivers that drives the prices here. I have the slight suspicion, as shallacatop mentions, that there are other things that are in dire need of fixing.
Also, the German audio releases I can buy literally everywhere. Physical copies are sold in book stores and petrol stations. And the downloads can be bought through EVERY. SINGLE. DOWNLOAD PROVIDER known to mankind. Google, iTunes, Amazon, Spotify..... you name it.
I can buy gift cards for this and gift this to friends and family (who are getting fed up with me, for me pushing "my bullsh*t" ). Yes, the marketing for these German audios also leaves to be desired- this new series I just discovered this week has been running for 9 months now and I discovered it purely by accident- even while featuring one of my favorite ever audio artists (he is not an actor anymore, he is pure awesome and has a range from teenager to old man to having done the dubbing for the German voice of Gollum in Lord of the Rings).
So yeah, for anyone not "in the know", finding these things are, like with Big Finish, pure luck. Like accidently stepping onto a haystack right into a needle.
So no, the difference also is not that German companies do better marketing (they are equally useless).
I do not know. I do not understand.
But my suspicion points to the easier access (download through every single download provider) and the option to actually gift this to people and surprise them- so the sales are bigger in Germany and therefore, prices are lower because more copies are sold each time.
But I have not studied economics. Maybe I am totally wrong and the reason lies in the different pint sizes. Stranger things have happened.
Fact is- I LOVE audio drama. But I find it hard to justify buying from BF when I have equally great quality releases from my home country. Of course this will make me buy less from BF, I am sad to say. I am less inclined to buy any weird new ranges or cross-overs and just concentrate on the 3-4 ranges I like best, since I have less money to spend on experiments.
Anything else would be stupid.
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Post by cr1980 on Jun 23, 2022 2:14:37 GMT
Wasn't there a Briggs interview with Billie Piper that dropped ten thousand as a number of sales for a production (or number of CDs pressed?). I vaguely remember Billie being surprised the number was so low. And I was surprised a number survived the editing of the interview.
I'd bet the hundred-thousand-plus numbers the German producers manage are beyond BF's wildest dreams. Is it just that audio drama is a much bigger thing in Germany than UK? And even then audio seems to be much bigger in the UK than the rest of the English-speaking world.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jun 23, 2022 4:48:31 GMT
Wasn't there a Briggs interview with Billie Piper that dropped ten thousand as a number of sales for a production (or number of CDs pressed?). I vaguely remember Billie being surprised the number was so low. And I was surprised a number survived the editing of the interview. I'd bet the hundred-thousand-plus numbers the German producers manage are beyond BF's wildest dreams. Is it just that audio drama is a much bigger thing in Germany than UK? And even then audio seems to be much bigger in the UK than the rest of the English-speaking world. I know that Audible is big here in Australia- there are constant tv ads promoting it. And short answer, audio is Huge in Germany as the esteemed tuigirl will attest.
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 23, 2022 6:34:28 GMT
Wasn't there a Briggs interview with Billie Piper that dropped ten thousand as a number of sales for a production (or number of CDs pressed?). I vaguely remember Billie being surprised the number was so low. And I was surprised a number survived the editing of the interview. I'd bet the hundred-thousand-plus numbers the German producers manage are beyond BF's wildest dreams. Is it just that audio drama is a much bigger thing in Germany than UK? And even then audio seems to be much bigger in the UK than the rest of the English-speaking world. Yes, audio is big in Germany, we might be the biggest audio nation on the planet.
However. This extremely popular long running audio series with the high sales figures? This is AS POPULAR here as Doctor Who is in the UK. Doctor Who is a successful IP and it is in the UK DNA as this audio series is in the German DNA. EVERYBODY here knows it.
My question is- if Who is so popular in the UK, everybody knows it and has nostalgia for it- Why not use that?
The German audio series runs to a large part on nostalgia, because everybody grew up listening to it as kids.
If BF did a slightly less useless marketing, got away with the definitely idiotic website, offered Doctor Who audios on more platforms and enabled gift cards and specials on Audible and basically everything that the small audio companies do in Germany (and I cannot imagine their sales figures are higher than BF sales figures!) then you would have a massive market.
I know, mentioning the sales figures of the most successful German audio series is a cheat when comparing it to BF. But as I said, we have many smaller companies that are comparable to BF, and the only difference is, the audios are widely accessible everywhere. Not hidden in a closet like BF.
With Who so popular in the UK, and Tennant being a huge draw- imagine the downloads were freely available on iTunes and amazon music and whatever.
When you go to conventions, you can buy the most idiotic weird fan things, like pizza cutters with "Doctor Who" printed on it.
Can you not imagine that real stories, with real Tennant, would sell equally as well if marketed well and if freely available as audio plays? Even if audio is "unusual"? So are Doctor Who pizza cutters.
The point that "audio is just not popular" does not make sense to me when confronted with idiotic fan stuff you can buy.
And then BF tells me they only sell a handful of 10 and Rose audios?
What do you think is at fault? "People do not like audio" or an imbecilic sales structure, lacking marketing, useless website, no free availability?
I think I could at least hazard a guess.
All I wanted to say is, that BF are shooting themselves in the own foot. I am sure if they would dare to look at how other companies are doing business or even have a look at how audio drama is handled in, let's say, Germany, then maybe they would learn something? Find points to improve? Find a way to actually efficiently, SELL product? You know, the thing that companies should be doing?
Instead of going along business as usual and increasing prices because the imbecilic way of them doing business does not work so well?
Just giving some food for thought.
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 23, 2022 8:01:43 GMT
For what it’s worth, I had a confirmation on Monday of my email, thanking me for my feedback and that it’d been forwarded to the relevant team. Not had anything since, although I’m not expecting a response now it’s been passed on.
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Post by kipperserver on Jun 24, 2022 8:58:10 GMT
Are there any comparible audio drama companys in the UK doing better than Big Finish?
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Post by sherlock on Jun 24, 2022 9:18:34 GMT
Are there any comparible audio drama companys in the UK doing better than Big Finish? According to James Goss in 2017: “Now Big Finish is the UK’s largest creator of original audio drama outside of Radio Four.” As their amount of ranges has only gone up since then, safe to say that title is probably still theirs.
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Post by kipperserver on Jun 24, 2022 9:33:11 GMT
Wasn't there a Briggs interview with Billie Piper that dropped ten thousand as a number of sales for a production (or number of CDs pressed?). I vaguely remember Billie being surprised the number was so low. And I was surprised a number survived the editing of the interview. I'd bet the hundred-thousand-plus numbers the German producers manage are beyond BF's wildest dreams. Is it just that audio drama is a much bigger thing in Germany than UK? And even then audio seems to be much bigger in the UK than the rest of the English-speaking world. Yes, audio is big in Germany, we might be the biggest audio nation on the planet.
However. This extremely popular long running audio series with the high sales figures? This is AS POPULAR here as Doctor Who is in the UK. Doctor Who is a successful IP and it is in the UK DNA as this audio series is in the German DNA. EVERYBODY here knows it.
My question is- if Who is so popular in the UK, everybody knows it and has nostalgia for it- Why not use that?
The German audio series runs to a large part on nostalgia, because everybody grew up listening to it as kids.
If BF did a slightly less useless marketing, got away with the definitely idiotic website, offered Doctor Who audios on more platforms and enabled gift cards and specials on Audible and basically everything that the small audio companies do in Germany (and I cannot imagine their sales figures are higher than BF sales figures!) then you would have a massive market.
I know, mentioning the sales figures of the most successful German audio series is a cheat when comparing it to BF. But as I said, we have many smaller companies that are comparable to BF, and the only difference is, the audios are widely accessible everywhere. Not hidden in a closet like BF.
With Who so popular in the UK, and Tennant being a huge draw- imagine the downloads were freely available on iTunes and amazon music and whatever.
When you go to conventions, you can buy the most idiotic weird fan things, like pizza cutters with "Doctor Who" printed on it.
Can you not imagine that real stories, with real Tennant, would sell equally as well if marketed well and if freely available as audio plays? Even if audio is "unusual"? So are Doctor Who pizza cutters.
The point that "audio is just not popular" does not make sense to me when confronted with idiotic fan stuff you can buy.
And then BF tells me they only sell a handful of 10 and Rose audios?
What do you think is at fault? "People do not like audio" or an imbecilic sales structure, lacking marketing, useless website, no free availability?
I think I could at least hazard a guess.
All I wanted to say is, that BF are shooting themselves in the own foot. I am sure if they would dare to look at how other companies are doing business or even have a look at how audio drama is handled in, let's say, Germany, then maybe they would learn something? Find points to improve? Find a way to actually efficiently, SELL product? You know, the thing that companies should be doing?
Instead of going along business as usual and increasing prices because the imbecilic way of them doing business does not work so well?
Just giving some food for thought.
I think we're all agreed thatr BF needs to do less uselss marketing, get a better website and allow gift cards/vouchers. I derfinitely read somewhere that they don't do Audible because it woudl kill there profits. We all remember what happened to AudioGo in 2013. I was interested in the German stuff, though so I googled it. It looks like Germany has a much bigger tradition of listening to audio drama than the UK> cambridgechildrenslit.co.uk/2019/01/15/childrens-audio-dramas-and-their-popularity-in-germany/ Is the series you are talking about called Der Drie???
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Post by sherlock on Jun 24, 2022 9:43:52 GMT
Yes, audio is big in Germany, we might be the biggest audio nation on the planet.
However. This extremely popular long running audio series with the high sales figures? This is AS POPULAR here as Doctor Who is in the UK. Doctor Who is a successful IP and it is in the UK DNA as this audio series is in the German DNA. EVERYBODY here knows it.
My question is- if Who is so popular in the UK, everybody knows it and has nostalgia for it- Why not use that?
The German audio series runs to a large part on nostalgia, because everybody grew up listening to it as kids.
If BF did a slightly less useless marketing, got away with the definitely idiotic website, offered Doctor Who audios on more platforms and enabled gift cards and specials on Audible and basically everything that the small audio companies do in Germany (and I cannot imagine their sales figures are higher than BF sales figures!) then you would have a massive market.
I know, mentioning the sales figures of the most successful German audio series is a cheat when comparing it to BF. But as I said, we have many smaller companies that are comparable to BF, and the only difference is, the audios are widely accessible everywhere. Not hidden in a closet like BF.
With Who so popular in the UK, and Tennant being a huge draw- imagine the downloads were freely available on iTunes and amazon music and whatever.
When you go to conventions, you can buy the most idiotic weird fan things, like pizza cutters with "Doctor Who" printed on it.
Can you not imagine that real stories, with real Tennant, would sell equally as well if marketed well and if freely available as audio plays? Even if audio is "unusual"? So are Doctor Who pizza cutters.
The point that "audio is just not popular" does not make sense to me when confronted with idiotic fan stuff you can buy.
And then BF tells me they only sell a handful of 10 and Rose audios?
What do you think is at fault? "People do not like audio" or an imbecilic sales structure, lacking marketing, useless website, no free availability?
I think I could at least hazard a guess.
All I wanted to say is, that BF are shooting themselves in the own foot. I am sure if they would dare to look at how other companies are doing business or even have a look at how audio drama is handled in, let's say, Germany, then maybe they would learn something? Find points to improve? Find a way to actually efficiently, SELL product? You know, the thing that companies should be doing?
Instead of going along business as usual and increasing prices because the imbecilic way of them doing business does not work so well?
Just giving some food for thought.
I think we're all agreed thatr BF needs to do less uselss marketing, get a better website and allow gift cards/vouchers. I derfinitely read somewhere that they don't do Audible because it woudl kill there profits. We all remember what happened to AudioGo in 2013. I was interested in the German stuff, though so I googled it. It looks like Germany has a much bigger tradition of listening to audio drama than the UK> cambridgechildrenslit.co.uk/2019/01/15/childrens-audio-dramas-and-their-popularity-in-germany/ Is the series you are talking about called Der Drie??? Big Finish have released some items on Audible, at least on UK version. Got similar MR selection to Spotify, couple of Lost Story sets, first volume of 10DAs, couple of Early Adventures, couple of 4DAs, both “Worlds of” sets and I think the first wave of the Originals. That’s just what I found from a quick search on the app.
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 24, 2022 17:07:39 GMT
I think we're all agreed thatr BF needs to do less uselss marketing, get a better website and allow gift cards/vouchers. I derfinitely read somewhere that they don't do Audible because it woudl kill there profits. We all remember what happened to AudioGo in 2013. I was interested in the German stuff, though so I googled it. It looks like Germany has a much bigger tradition of listening to audio drama than the UK> cambridgechildrenslit.co.uk/2019/01/15/childrens-audio-dramas-and-their-popularity-in-germany/ Is the series you are talking about called Der Drie??? Yes, glad we are agreeing.
I am not exactly talking about audible, but mainly Amazon music, iTunes, spotify.... all of our German releases are on there, also the ones of our smaller companies.
Yes, indeed, I am talking about the Three Investigators (we have now over 250 releases, plus a few more specials and live shows, all in the past 40 years, still using most of the same main cast!).
In German, Die drei ? ? ?, selling more than 120000 copies with each release and winner for quite a few world records in the world of audio drama.
The series is now written by German authors, only the first 45 audios are based on the original American books. Plus, the boys are now around 18 years old and have cars in the German version, in one case they are even older and carry guns. We got a lot of character development and the boys are not the cardboard cutouts anymore that they were in the books, which did make the stories even more popular, because of character growth and some really awesome deep psychological stories.
But that really is the biggest and most successful series and it is unfair to compare to BF.
This is why I also mentioned our smaller, less massive audio companies who also deliver good product and who are comparable to BF, I assume sales and set up would be comparable.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 30, 2022 10:36:46 GMT
Just noticed that on the day BF Announced the Price Increase they also clarified terms of DW Main/Monthly Range Subscriptions (what Bonuses were included with which Titles, and where the additional Bonus Title of the Customer choice was applicable) www.bigfinish.com/pages/v/subscriptionsRegards mark687
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