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Post by ulyssessarcher on Feb 9, 2016 22:09:34 GMT
Well, obviously that's what they meant at the time. Since the Great Intelligence implied that the Valeyard is still in the Doctor's future, and since Amy's was the first face Eleven's face saw, I think we can assume that the Doctor didn't fight the Valeyard off screen in The Eleventh Hour. Now that we know that there are potentially limitless incarnations in between his twelfth and final ones, the Valeyard can concievably show up at any time. I just can't see it. Surely the Valeyard has to be created when the Doctor believes he is regenerating out of his twelfth body. At that time he believes that to be his last ever regeneration. He doesn't know at that time that he's going to get a new regeneration cycle, Gallifrey is gone so he doesn't believe it's possible. What happens later just isn't relevant. Nothing in Doctor Who is relevant, until the writers say it is, and then the fans agree...And in the Immortal words of Anthony Ainley as The Master, "somewhere between your twelfth and final regeneration." It's just that dadburn simple. |
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Post by relativetime on Feb 9, 2016 23:37:26 GMT
I expect Series 10 to be just as awesome as Moffat's seasons usually are. I have more trust in him to NOT go on a self-congratulatory marathon like Russell T. Davies did at the end of his tenure - or, at least, I have more trust that Moffat could make his pat-on-the-back sendoff a lot more enjoyable than what we got with The End of Time.
I think we'll probably see Missy again - possibly for the finale - and I'm kind of hoping she might be the cause for Capaldi's regeneration IF he decides to leave at the end of Series 10. I don't really want Capaldi to leave, but if he does I do NOT want another regeneration set during a Christmas episode (although Moffat's Christmas specials are generally pretty good). I would also like to see other Time Lords show up besides Missy.
Finally, I just want a companion who isn't from modern day Earth. Have her come from the 1960s, the far future, an alternate timeline, whatever - just not any date close to 2016.
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Post by constonks on Feb 10, 2016 0:01:43 GMT
I'm wondering if Moffat is going to try to squeeze in another incarnation before he goes. Either a quick two-episode Thirteenth Doctor or an early non-chronological appearance of a Series 10 Doctor. Maybe Capaldi will regenerate in the first or second half of the season finale rather than at Christmas? (The last two regenerations have been at Christmas/New Year's. Let's have something different.)
I mean, I'd rather he stay into the Chibnall era (and then leave in Series 12 or so), but I reeeeally doubt it. It could cool to see a season premiere that features the incumbent Doctor losing and regenerating, only to spend the rest of the season trying to make up for it (or solve the mystery that led to his death).
And hey if we're talking hopes, a multi-Doctor story? Maybe one of the two Christmas specials?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 10, 2016 1:28:40 GMT
I predict that Missy & the Daleks will return, together, to cause the Doctor and his new companion a sot of bother. I predict that the new companion will be young and pretty. I predict that Peter Jackson will direct either a block of two episodes or perhaps one of the Christmas episodes. I predict a return of the 8th Doctor. I predict a return of Gallifrey and the Time Lord Omega.
My hope is that series 10 builds upon series 9 and delivers the best Doctor Who ever.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 10, 2016 4:04:35 GMT
I'm hoping for:
No Daleks.
Tenth Planet style Cybermen.
Silurians, ideally one set during the Heyday of their civilisation.
No story arcs.
A surprise eight and Lucie story.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 6:29:33 GMT
Draconians
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 8:54:05 GMT
I expect Series 10 to be just as awesome as Moffat's seasons usually are. I have more trust in him to NOT go on a self-congratulatory marathon like Russell T. Davies did at the end of his tenure - or, at least, I have more trust that Moffat could make his pat-on-the-back sendoff a lot more enjoyable than what we got with The End of Time. I think we'll probably see Missy again - possibly for the finale - and I'm kind of hoping she might be the cause for Capaldi's regeneration IF he decides to leave at the end of Series 10. I don't really want Capaldi to leave, but if he does I do NOT want another regeneration set during a Christmas episode (although Moffat's Christmas specials are generally pretty good). I would also like to see other Time Lords show up besides Missy. Finally, I just want a companion who isn't from modern day Earth. Have her come from the 1960s, the far future, an alternate timeline, whatever - just not any date close to 2016. I'm not sure how self-congratulatory that long farewell really was. According to Davies on The End of Time commentary, he was unsure when or if these characters would be picked up again, suggesting that Moffatt had communicated that he wanted a relativily clean break and he felt a farewell was in order for audience closure. I, personally, don't mind the long farewell. For a large portion of the audience, it needed to be emphasised that The Doctor isn't immortal, that all this man was was to be swept away. Nine was there for a short burst, Ten was there for three years. Ten saying goodbye to his friends before his death was a nice way to emphasis that he really was going to go and provide neccessary closure for the arrival of Eleven. Easing an audience away from the backdrop of the last five years also wasn't a bad move to avoid comparsions for the new guy - and we all know how that worked out!  |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 10, 2016 14:39:40 GMT
I'm wondering if Moffat is going to try to squeeze in another incarnation before he goes. Either a quick two-episode Thirteenth Doctor or an early non-chronological appearance of a Series 10 Doctor. Maybe Capaldi will regenerate in the first or second half of the season finale rather than at Christmas? (The last two regenerations have been at Christmas/New Year's. Let's have something different.) I mean, I'd rather he stay into the Chibnall era (and then leave in Series 12 or so), but I reeeeally doubt it. It could cool to see a season premiere that features the incumbent Doctor losing and regenerating, only to spend the rest of the season trying to make up for it (or solve the mystery that led to his death). And hey if we're talking hopes, a multi-Doctor story? Maybe one of the two Christmas specials? I hope not. I think another hidden Doctor would be stretching credibility, a future Doctor would be too similar to the Curator and the next Doctor appearing would mean Peter Capaldi would have to leave and I'd rather see him under Chris Chibnall. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 15:51:02 GMT
I hope that if Capaldi DOES leave at the end of Series 10, it won't be in a 2017 Christmas Special.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 16:56:07 GMT
I hope that if Capaldi DOES leave at the end of Series 10, it won't be in a 2017 Christmas Special. Indeed. Starts to become a very predictable pattern. I love the idea of him starting to regenerate at the end of season 10 without us even seeing the new Doctor. Then the Christmas special could be Doctor-less. |
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Post by sexbombsimon on Feb 10, 2016 16:57:38 GMT
Christmas 2017. Capaldi & Moffat bows out and is directed by Peter Jackson.
Just thinking of the shooting. If they want to have it back on in the Spring, they have to be shooting 2 crews at the same time to get it on TV in time? Right or am i wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 17:37:19 GMT
Christmas 2017. Capaldi & Moffat bows out and is directed by Peter Jackson. Just thinking of the shooting. If they want to have it back on in the Spring, they have to be shooting 2 crews at the same time to get it on TV in time? Right or am i wrong? Not if they shoot Christmas 2017 this year, which I'm assuming they'll do. Moffat and Capaldi will both want to move on to new things rather than come back for one episode. |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 10, 2016 18:17:05 GMT
I hope that if Capaldi DOES leave at the end of Series 10, it won't be in a 2017 Christmas Special. Indeed. Starts to become a very predictable pattern. I love the idea of him starting to regenerate at the end of season 10 without us even seeing the new Doctor. Then the Christmas special could be Doctor-less. Personally, I'd like to see 12 regenerate when you least expect it: halfway through episode one. Although they would never do that because it wouldn't work from a narrative point of view. |
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Feb 10, 2016 21:26:58 GMT
I'd hope that Twelve is comfortable in his own skin now, and not having another near-death identity crisis.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 21:41:58 GMT
Indeed. Starts to become a very predictable pattern. I love the idea of him starting to regenerate at the end of season 10 without us even seeing the new Doctor. Then the Christmas special could be Doctor-less. Personally, I'd like to see 12 regenerate when you least expect it: halfway through episode one. Although they would never do that because it wouldn't work from a narrative point of view. Oh, I don't know... You could do a predestination paradox where the new Doctor is responsible for his old self's death and success, and needs to be in order for his own self to come about. That sounds very Moffaty to me. Paradoxes for everyone! |
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 10, 2016 22:35:02 GMT
Personally, I'd like to see 12 regenerate when you least expect it: halfway through episode one. Although they would never do that because it wouldn't work from a narrative point of view. Oh, I don't know... You could do a predestination paradox where the new Doctor is responsible for his old self's death and success, and needs to be in order for his own self to come about. That sounds very Moffaty to me. Paradoxes for everyone! It would be too convoluted for the casual audience though, when it would be much easier to have a regeneration at the end of the series or in the Christmas special instead. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 0:18:15 GMT
Oh, I don't know... You could do a predestination paradox where the new Doctor is responsible for his old self's death and success, and needs to be in order for his own self to come about. That sounds very Moffaty to me. Paradoxes for everyone! It would be too convoluted for the casual audience though, when it would be much easier to have a regeneration at the end of the series or in the Christmas special instead. True enough. I do hope that the regeneration is a long ways off and Capaldi stays for at least a season under the new Chibnall production office though. |
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Post by relativetime on Feb 11, 2016 2:02:00 GMT
I expect Series 10 to be just as awesome as Moffat's seasons usually are. I have more trust in him to NOT go on a self-congratulatory marathon like Russell T. Davies did at the end of his tenure - or, at least, I have more trust that Moffat could make his pat-on-the-back sendoff a lot more enjoyable than what we got with The End of Time. I think we'll probably see Missy again - possibly for the finale - and I'm kind of hoping she might be the cause for Capaldi's regeneration IF he decides to leave at the end of Series 10. I don't really want Capaldi to leave, but if he does I do NOT want another regeneration set during a Christmas episode (although Moffat's Christmas specials are generally pretty good). I would also like to see other Time Lords show up besides Missy. Finally, I just want a companion who isn't from modern day Earth. Have her come from the 1960s, the far future, an alternate timeline, whatever - just not any date close to 2016. I'm not sure how self-congratulatory that long farewell really was. According to Davies on The End of Time commentary, he was unsure when or if these characters would be picked up again, suggesting that Moffatt had communicated that he wanted a relativily clean break and he felt a farewell was in order for audience closure. I, personally, don't mind the long farewell. For a large portion of the audience, it needed to be emphasised that The Doctor isn't immortal, that all this man was was to be swept away. Nine was there for a short burst, Ten was there for three years. Ten saying goodbye to his friends before his death was a nice way to emphasis that he really was going to go and provide neccessary closure for the arrival of Eleven. Easing an audience away from the backdrop of the last five years also wasn't a bad move to avoid comparsions for the new guy - and we all know how that worked out! I can see where you're coming from, but I have to respectfully disagree. There was really no need to drag out the Doctor's regeneration as long as they did and I just don't think we needed resolution for any of the Tenth Doctor's companions (barring Donna). I think the "revisiting old friends" bit could have been more aptly summarized with the final bit, where the Doctor visits Rose. Jack and Sarah Jane both had their own spinoff shows, so I don't really buy the "unsure if they're going to be picked up again" bit for them. And Verity Newman (Joan Redfern's daughter) only appeared in two episodes of the series up until then. Was she important? Yeah, but not in the long term sense to me - not as much as Rose or Martha or Donna wer I also disagree about closure being needed for the arrival of the Eleventh. I believe quite the opposite, actually. If anything, the fact that this episode constantly drives home the point that the Doctor is afraid of regenerating makes it harder for the fans to accept his departure. It might have worked if we saw the Doctor come to terms with his inevitable fate, but we don't. He complains about how unfair it is before he saves Wilfred, visits everyone he's ever known while looking like he's constantly on the verge of tears, and then, when he actually starts to regenerate, he whimpers that he doesn't want to go. How is the audience supposed to feel at this point? The buildup and all the resolution of all the companions is TOO final. There is no message or implication that the future holds just as many good things ahead and the Doctor himself says he doesn't want to go. Is it any wonder why many fans quit the series here? I'm not saying all regenerations have to follow the same formula, but at the very least they could help the audience look forward to the future. Doctor Who is not about resolving everything - the Doctor hates endings, after all - and that's ultimately the biggest problem I had with this regeneration. It was too final. I've probably been all over the place trying to explain myself, but I really passionately disliked the final two Tennant episodes. |
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Feb 12, 2016 13:07:46 GMT
The Valeyard is between the twelfth and final incarnations. Technically, that means that the Valeyard is free to show up any time now. The phrase "between twelfth and final" is within the context of having thirteen lives. It is regenerating into his final form, knowing that there is no chance of gaining a second regeneration cycle that causes the creation of the Valeyard. No, JNT specifically asked for the line to be changed from 'between your twelfth and thirteen incarnations' so that there was ambiguity and leeway in the future. |
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 12, 2016 15:27:34 GMT
The phrase "between twelfth and final" is within the context of having thirteen lives. It is regenerating into his final form, knowing that there is no chance of gaining a second regeneration cycle that causes the creation of the Valeyard. No, JNT specifically asked for the line to be changed from 'between your twelfth and thirteen incarnations' so that there was ambiguity and leeway in the future. Well, the line never was changed. |
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