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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 27, 2017 8:53:30 GMT
No offence, but it isn't. All this does is confirm what we knew anyway. This means Barrowman's available to play Jack I guess, but it doesn't meant Chibnall actually wants to bring the character back. Chris Chibnall would be stupid not to contract John Barrowman for Series 11 straight away before he becomes too busy again. If I were him I would be on the phone to his agent immediately. Jack is one of those characters where you don't need a narrative reason for his return. He can fit in anywhere, more so even than the Brigadier and UNIT. He's truly unique in that respect. You might say 'Well, that's the same with River Song' but she's limited by her Timey Wimey storyline and given she didn't recognise 12 a future return for River wouldn't be feasible in the same way Jack's return would.
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Post by sherlock on May 27, 2017 10:14:04 GMT
No offence, but it isn't. All this does is confirm what we knew anyway. This means Barrowman's available to play Jack I guess, but it doesn't meant Chibnall actually wants to bring the character back. Chris Chibnall would be stupid not to contract John Barrowman for Series 11 straight away before he becomes too busy again. If I were him I would be on the phone to his agent immediately. Jack is one of those characters where you don't need a narrative reason for his return. He can fit in anywhere, more so even than the Brigadier and UNIT. He's truly unique in that respect. You might say 'Well, that's the same with River Song' but she's limited by her Timey Wimey storyline and given she didn't recognise 12 a future return for River wouldn't be feasible in the same way Jack's return would. I still think characters should only be brought back if there's a good story to tell by bringing them back. If Chibnall does not have an idea for a story that actually requires Jack, then he should leave Jack out. Besides it would be very odd from a marketing perspective to essentially promote a soft-reboot (new showrunner, new Doctor) and then bring back an old character, created by the outgoing showrunner no less. Chibnall should stride forward, not rely on the past.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 27, 2017 12:28:50 GMT
Chris Chibnall would be stupid not to contract John Barrowman for Series 11 straight away before he becomes too busy again. If I were him I would be on the phone to his agent immediately. Jack is one of those characters where you don't need a narrative reason for his return. He can fit in anywhere, more so even than the Brigadier and UNIT. He's truly unique in that respect. You might say 'Well, that's the same with River Song' but she's limited by her Timey Wimey storyline and given she didn't recognise 12 a future return for River wouldn't be feasible in the same way Jack's return would. I still think characters should only be brought back if there's a good story to tell by bringing them back. If Chibnall does not have an idea for a story that actually requires Jack, then he should leave Jack out. Besides it would be very odd from a marketing perspective to essentially promote a soft-reboot (new showrunner, new Doctor) and then bring back an old character, created by the outgoing showrunner no less. Chibnall should stride forward, not rely on the past. With any other character I would agree but Captain Jack has become so engrained in pop culture that even your casual elderly female viewer knows who he is. Jack is in that rarity of characters from any era of the show who could be brought back with little to no explanation for new viewers. I can only think of four others who in the show's entire history fit that category and two of them have sadly passed away.
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Post by sherlock on May 27, 2017 12:59:02 GMT
I still think characters should only be brought back if there's a good story to tell by bringing them back. If Chibnall does not have an idea for a story that actually requires Jack, then he should leave Jack out. Besides it would be very odd from a marketing perspective to essentially promote a soft-reboot (new showrunner, new Doctor) and then bring back an old character, created by the outgoing showrunner no less. Chibnall should stride forward, not rely on the past. With any other character I would agree but Captain Jack has become so engrained in pop culture that even your casual elderly female viewer knows who he is. Jack is in that rarity of characters from any era of the show who could be brought back with little to no explanation for new viewers. I can only think of four others who in the show's entire history fit that category and two of them have sadly passed away. Just because he can be brought back easily, doesn't mean he should. Unless there's a good story to be made from it, there's no point.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 27, 2017 13:08:03 GMT
With any other character I would agree but Captain Jack has become so engrained in pop culture that even your casual elderly female viewer knows who he is. Jack is in that rarity of characters from any era of the show who could be brought back with little to no explanation for new viewers. I can only think of four others who in the show's entire history fit that category and two of them have sadly passed away. Just because he can be brought back easily, doesn't mean he should. Unless there's a good story to be made from it, there's no point. Was there a story reason behind Jack's return in Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords or The Stolen Earth/Journey's End? Even if we were to say Jack needs a narrative reason, why not show how Jack becomes the Face of Boe (as was the original intention with A Good Man Goes To War had John Barrowman been available)?
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Post by sherlock on May 27, 2017 13:25:48 GMT
Just because he can be brought back easily, doesn't mean he should. Unless there's a good story to be made from it, there's no point. Was there a story reason behind Jack's return in Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords or The Stolen Earth/Journey's End? Even if we were to say Jack needs a narrative reason, why not show how Jack becomes the Face of Boe (as was the original intention with A Good Man Goes To War had John Barrowman been available)? Well the reason for him returning in Series 3 was to deal with the immortality that had been established in Torchwood, that needed both clarification and had potential for a new dynamic with the Doctor. The Stolen Earth/Journey's End was intending to show a full-scale invasion of Earth and thus every protector of it (UNIT, Torchwood, Sarah Jane) was in some way featured. I thought his appearance in A Good Man Goes To War would have just been a cameo as part of the Doctor's favours, I haven't heard anything about the Face of Boe being related to it. Also the Face of Boe hasn't even been mentioned in a decade now, I doubt anyone beyond fans even remembers the connection. That's probably best left for Big Finish to resolve one day.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 7:10:07 GMT
I think the focus needs to be on the new Doctor next season instead of Jack but maybe for season 12.
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 28, 2017 11:09:30 GMT
Captain Jack has become so engrained in pop culture Really? I have literally never heard the character mentioned in any context other than "Doctor Who" or "Torchwood", whereas the TARDIS or Daleks get bandied about when talking about completely unrelated things. Now, if you'd meant John Barrowman himself, I would have absolutely agreed. (For myself, I think that the moment for bringing back Captain Jack has passed. The juxtaposition of Jack with Capaldi's Doctor would have been interesting to an extent I doubt would happen with Kris Marshall/Hayley Atwell/Paul McGann/the Rani/Omega etc)
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Post by coffeeaddict on May 28, 2017 11:37:10 GMT
Personally I'm fine with him not appearing. Too often characters are brought back for no reason other than the hop of poppin the ratings. In the majority of these cases the stories don't actually need the returnee.
I'd also say that outside of John Barrowman and a vocal minority there isn't any real desire to have Jack back as a constant (new Torchwood tv) or as a frequent guest.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 12:06:45 GMT
I still think characters should only be brought back if there's a good story to tell by bringing them back. If Chibnall does not have an idea for a story that actually requires Jack, then he should leave Jack out. Besides it would be very odd from a marketing perspective to essentially promote a soft-reboot (new showrunner, new Doctor) and then bring back an old character, created by the outgoing showrunner no less. Chibnall should stride forward, not rely on the past. With any other character I would agree but Captain Jack has become so engrained in pop culture that even your casual elderly female viewer knows who he is. Jack is in that rarity of characters from any era of the show who could be brought back with little to no explanation for new viewers. I can only think of four others who in the show's entire history fit that category and two of them have sadly passed away. Just, no. Any character can be brought back with no explanation just as any new character can be introduced. Some might be problematic but Tegan or Nyssa for example could just be there when the Doctor turns up. And Captain Jack is not engrained in pop culture, though I'll grant that John Barrowman is.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 28, 2017 12:58:01 GMT
Captain Jack has become so engrained in pop culture Really? I have literally never heard the character mentioned in any context other than "Doctor Who" or "Torchwood", whereas the TARDIS or Daleks get bandied about when talking about completely unrelated things. Now, if you'd meant John Barrowman himself, I would have absolutely agreed. (For myself, I think that the moment for bringing back Captain Jack has passed. The juxtaposition of Jack with Capaldi's Doctor would have been interesting to an extent I doubt would happen with Kris Marshall/Hayley Atwell/Paul McGann/the Rani/Omega etc) I think if you asked someone to name a Doctor Who companion they would say either K9, Sarah Jane Smith or Captain Jack Harkness. I doubt they would say anyone different. Jack is popular among both casual viewers and us fans.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 28, 2017 12:59:58 GMT
With any other character I would agree but Captain Jack has become so engrained in pop culture that even your casual elderly female viewer knows who he is. Jack is in that rarity of characters from any era of the show who could be brought back with little to no explanation for new viewers. I can only think of four others who in the show's entire history fit that category and two of them have sadly passed away. Just, no. Any character can be brought back with no explanation just as any new character can be introduced. Some might be problematic but Tegan or Nyssa for example could just be there when the Doctor turns up. And Captain Jack is not engrained in pop culture, though I'll grant that John Barrowman is. You would need to explain who Tegan and Nyssa are, why they are there and set the story on Earth (in the case of Tegan). With Captain Jack everybody knows who he is and you could set the story anywhere with it still making sense that he would be there.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 13:12:32 GMT
Personally I'm fine with him not appearing. Too often characters are brought back for no reason other than the hop of poppin the ratings. In the majority of these cases the stories don't actually need the returnee. I'd also say that outside of John Barrowman and a vocal minority there isn't any real desire to have Jack back as a constant (new Torchwood tv) or as a frequent guest. I agree with this. Captain Jack was great fun but within Doctor Who, his story is pretty much told. With Torchwood, he would have had a television future, but I'm not sure it's likely Torchwood will return. If the showrunner listens to the demands of some of the fans, every story would feature the return of someone or other. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. We've had River Song and Missy as recurring characters since then, and even their stories are soon to be told (or in the case of River, may already have finished). Long since time to move on.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 28, 2017 13:15:21 GMT
Personally I'm fine with him not appearing. Too often characters are brought back for no reason other than the hop of poppin the ratings. In the majority of these cases the stories don't actually need the returnee. I'd also say that outside of John Barrowman and a vocal minority there isn't any real desire to have Jack back as a constant (new Torchwood tv) or as a frequent guest. I agree with this. Captain Jack was great fun but within Doctor Who, his story is pretty much told. With Torchwood, he would have had a television future, but I'm not sure it's likely Torchwood will return. If the showrunner listens to the demands of some of the fans, every story would feature the return of someone or other. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. We've had River Song and Missy as recurring characters since then, and even their stories are soon to be told (or in the case of River, may already have finished). Long since time to move on. I really disagree that there'a nothing else to do with Jack. Captain Jack should be the new series Brigadier.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 13:16:21 GMT
Just, no. Any character can be brought back with no explanation just as any new character can be introduced. Some might be problematic but Tegan or Nyssa for example could just be there when the Doctor turns up. And Captain Jack is not engrained in pop culture, though I'll grant that John Barrowman is. You would need to explain who Tegan and Nyssa are, why they are there and set the story on Earth. With Captain Jack everybody knows who he is and you could set the story anywhere with it still making sense that he would be there. You really wouldn't need to go into any depth, any more than when they explained who Sarah and Jo were. Jack needs more explanation due to his immortality. And Nyssa isn't on Earth, he could encounter her anywhere.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 28, 2017 13:19:49 GMT
You would need to explain who Tegan and Nyssa are, why they are there and set the story on Earth. With Captain Jack everybody knows who he is and you could set the story anywhere with it still making sense that he would be there. You really wouldn't need to go into any depth, any more than when they explained who Sarah and Jo were. Jack needs more explanation due to his immortality. And Nyssa isn't on Earth, he could encounter her anywhere. I meant to say 'in the case of Tegan' but with Jack you can have him in any time period, on any planet and in any galaxy. The possibilities are limitless. As for immortality, it's common knowledge that Captain Jack is immortal. That's all you need to know.
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Post by sherlock on May 28, 2017 13:36:28 GMT
You really wouldn't need to go into any depth, any more than when they explained who Sarah and Jo were. Jack needs more explanation due to his immortality. And Nyssa isn't on Earth, he could encounter her anywhere. I meant to say 'in the case of Tegan' but with Jack you can have him in any time period, on any planet and in any galaxy. The possibilities are limitless. As for immortality, it's common knowledge that Captain Jack is immortal. That's all you need to know. It's not that common knowledge. Torchwood hasn't been on air in six years so I imagine most viewers will have forgotten the details of the character. Jack the character is not iconic, John Barrowman is. Barrowman is still a big player in the industry, hence the publicity his statements about Torchwood get. I've never heard Captain Jack being discussed outside fan circles since Torchwood went off air. Regardless of the ability to bring him back, I'm yet to be convinced there's a good story to be had from bringing him back.
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Post by coffeeaddict on May 28, 2017 15:42:40 GMT
I meant to say 'in the case of Tegan' but with Jack you can have him in any time period, on any planet and in any galaxy. The possibilities are limitless. As for immortality, it's common knowledge that Captain Jack is immortal. That's all you need to know. It's not that common knowledge. Torchwood hasn't been on air in six years so I imagine most viewers will have forgotten the details of the character. Jack the character is not iconic, John Barrowman is. Barrowman is still a big player in the industry, hence the publicity his statements about Torchwood get. I've never heard Captain Jack being discussed outside fan circles since Torchwood went off air. Regardless of the ability to bring him back, I'm yet to be convinced there's a good story to be had from bringing him back. Outside of this forum I have never heard any Doctor Who fans discussing a desire to have Jack back.
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Post by doomlord on May 28, 2017 16:45:09 GMT
With Captain Jack everybody knows who he is and you could set the story anywhere with it still making sense that he would be there. Jack needs more explanation due to his immortality. As for immortality, it's common knowledge that Captain Jack is immortal. That's all you need to know. It's not that common knowledge. Torchwood hasn't been on air in six years so I imagine most viewers will have forgotten the details of the character. Jack the character is not iconic, I've never heard Captain Jack being discussed outside fan circles since Torchwood went off air. Indeed, because Jack is an anomaly he would need a lot more explanation to the casual viewer than that of a normal human such as Tegan. Being off screen for quite a while there will be people who will not only have forgotten the details of what or whom he actually is but also people totally unaware of him especially to anyone under the age of 14 (which is a huge number of the population).
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 28, 2017 19:27:02 GMT
It's not that common knowledge. Torchwood hasn't been on air in six years so I imagine most viewers will have forgotten the details of the character. Jack the character is not iconic, John Barrowman is. Barrowman is still a big player in the industry, hence the publicity his statements about Torchwood get. I've never heard Captain Jack being discussed outside fan circles since Torchwood went off air. Regardless of the ability to bring him back, I'm yet to be convinced there's a good story to be had from bringing him back. Outside of this forum I have never heard any Doctor Who fans discussing a desire to have Jack back. You haven't looked far enough on the internet. The majority of the fan base wants Jack back.
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