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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 12:36:30 GMT
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Post by thethirddoctor on Mar 21, 2018 12:40:35 GMT
Would be interesting if Paul Cornell tone downs the sexism portrayed by the First Doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 23:51:14 GMT
Would be interesting if Paul Cornell tone downs the sexism portrayed by the First Doctor. We might get more context in the novel as opposed to the random throwaway comments that we got in the TV episode.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Mar 22, 2018 0:56:11 GMT
Would be interesting if Paul Cornell tone downs the sexism portrayed by the First Doctor. We might get more context in the novel as opposed to the random throwaway comments that we got in the TV episode. I have a "headcanon" to explain it away. On Gallifrey, the concept of gender doesn't really exist. There's the physical body you have, of course, but that's just fleshy bits. There's no idea that it's in any way part of your identity. (Any "he"s or "she"s said by Gallifreyans are just TARDIS translation circuits at work.) So when Theta Sigma finds himself on Earth, he's a little puzzled by how women are treated as inferiors. But, well, these humans are quite different from Time Lords, aren't they? So he asks a man at the pub for an explanation. And he gets it – an hour-long screed about the inferiority of women. The Doctor nods, drinking it all in. It sounds odd, but this man is a human, isn't he, so he ought to know, eh? And a few years later, when he realizes the truth, he entirely denies that he ever believed it and it was all just a joke, you see, trying to blend in to the culture... Of course, I'd be equally happy to just forget it ever happened. I usually love Moffat's work, but the sexism was a bizarre choice that only really existed to make some not-particularly-funny jokes of the sort sitcoms always make about older relatives saying embarrassing things without any real analysis of sexism or gender dynamics going on.
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Post by constonks on Mar 22, 2018 4:11:12 GMT
EDIT: woops was beaten to this by about fifteen hours and didn't see it before posting - might as well leave the covers here though:Covers are up for the other two! Kinda sad they didn't go with Hartnell on the Twice cover ( The Five Doctors did!) but I also didn't really expect them to.
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 22, 2018 11:45:13 GMT
I’ve got The Day of the Doctor pre-ordered, but will no doubt get them all. I think it’ll be something special.
Steven Moffat is incorporating The Night of the Doctor into it. I imagine there’ll be more detailed lead-ins for the War and Tenth Doctors. The War Doctor acquiring The Moment. More involvement from the Doctors in saving Gallifrey; I think this will shine in prose in a way it wouldn’t on television due to its pace. Post-regeneration scenes for the War and Ninth Doctors. Perhaps even Ian will make the originally planned cameo at the beginning of the story?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2018 11:54:02 GMT
I’ve got The Day of the Doctor pre-ordered, but will no doubt get them all. I think it’ll be something special. Steven Moffat is incorporating The Night of the Doctor into it. I imagine there’ll be more detailed lead-ins for the War and Tenth Doctors. The War Doctor acquiring The Moment. More involvement from the Doctors in saving Gallifrey; I think this will shine in prose in a way it wouldn’t on television due to its pace. Post-regeneration scenes for the War and Ninth Doctors. Perhaps even Ian will make the originally planned cameo at the beginning of the story? Also: given that it's a novel, we'll probably get some Big Finish references as well. YEEEEEEEEEEEEES. I think Moffatt's probably going to hold back on a Ninth Doctor regeneration scene for Big Finish to play with one day.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Mar 23, 2018 1:10:27 GMT
I’ve got The Day of the Doctor pre-ordered, but will no doubt get them all. I think it’ll be something special. Steven Moffat is incorporating The Night of the Doctor into it. I imagine there’ll be more detailed lead-ins for the War and Tenth Doctors. The War Doctor acquiring The Moment. More involvement from the Doctors in saving Gallifrey; I think this will shine in prose in a way it wouldn’t on television due to its pace. Post-regeneration scenes for the War and Ninth Doctors. Perhaps even Ian will make the originally planned cameo at the beginning of the story? Also: given that it's a novel, we'll probably get some Big Finish references as well. YEEEEEEEEEEEEES. I think Moffatt's probably going to hold back on a Ninth Doctor regeneration scene for Big Finish to play with one day. Given that it’s a novel, I’m hoping we get a “Fitz” or “Compassion” added into McGann’s regeneration apology. “Izzy” or “Destri” wouldn’t go amiss either.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 1:39:44 GMT
We might get more context in the novel as opposed to the random throwaway comments that we got in the TV episode. I have a "headcanon" to explain it away. On Gallifrey, the concept of gender doesn't really exist. There's the physical body you have, of course, but that's just fleshy bits. There's no idea that it's in any way part of your identity. (Any "he"s or "she"s said by Gallifreyans are just TARDIS translation circuits at work.) So when Theta Sigma finds himself on Earth, he's a little puzzled by how women are treated as inferiors. But, well, these humans are quite different from Time Lords, aren't they? So he asks a man at the pub for an explanation. And he gets it – an hour-long screed about the inferiority of women. The Doctor nods, drinking it all in. It sounds odd, but this man is a human, isn't he, so he ought to know, eh? And a few years later, when he realizes the truth, he entirely denies that he ever believed it and it was all just a joke, you see, trying to blend in to the culture... Of course, I'd be equally happy to just forget it ever happened. I usually love Moffat's work, but the sexism was a bizarre choice that only really existed to make some not-particularly-funny jokes of the sort sitcoms always make about older relatives saying embarrassing things without any real analysis of sexism or gender dynamics going on. Particularly weird if he didn't come straight to 1963 Earth from Gallifrey and hung about history for a while. He'd have surely met a eunuch in his time or been exposed to a culture like ancient Mesopotamia or Indigenous America that have a non-binary third gender. You don't even have to be that vague, Barbara's dressing down of him in Edge of Destruction would have put that thought right out of his head anyway. *puts hands over face* It's damaging an old character to make a new character look better, like turning the Fifth Doctor into a colonialist thug to make Ten look more enlightened. *shows face, still wincing* Very uncomfortable. A disservice to the character. And you just succeed in making people angry, no one actually learns anything about the subject you're discussing. Paul Cornell, you've done wonderful things with the Third Doctor recently (re: Heralds of Destruction). Please, please, please give the First Doctor the characterisation he actually deserves. Put great character work ahead of some misjudged jokes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 2:08:31 GMT
I have a "headcanon" to explain it away. On Gallifrey, the concept of gender doesn't really exist. There's the physical body you have, of course, but that's just fleshy bits. There's no idea that it's in any way part of your identity. (Any "he"s or "she"s said by Gallifreyans are just TARDIS translation circuits at work.) So when Theta Sigma finds himself on Earth, he's a little puzzled by how women are treated as inferiors. But, well, these humans are quite different from Time Lords, aren't they? So he asks a man at the pub for an explanation. And he gets it – an hour-long screed about the inferiority of women. The Doctor nods, drinking it all in. It sounds odd, but this man is a human, isn't he, so he ought to know, eh? And a few years later, when he realizes the truth, he entirely denies that he ever believed it and it was all just a joke, you see, trying to blend in to the culture... Of course, I'd be equally happy to just forget it ever happened. I usually love Moffat's work, but the sexism was a bizarre choice that only really existed to make some not-particularly-funny jokes of the sort sitcoms always make about older relatives saying embarrassing things without any real analysis of sexism or gender dynamics going on. Particularly weird if he didn't come straight to 1963 Earth from Gallifrey and hung about history for a while. He'd have surely met a eunuch in his time or been exposed to a culture like ancient Mesopotamia or Indigenous America that have a non-binary third gender. You don't even have to be that vague, Barbara's dressing down of him in Edge of Destruction would have put that thought right out of his head anyway. *puts hands over face* It's damaging an old character to make a new character look better, like turning the Fifth Doctor into a colonialist thug to make Ten look more enlightened. *shows face, still wincing* Very uncomfortable. A disservice to the character. And you just succeed in making people angry, no one actually learns anything about the subject you're discussing. Paul Cornell, you've done wonderful things with the Third Doctor recently (re: Heralds of Destruction). Please, please, please give the First Doctor the characterisation he actually deserves. Put great character work ahead of some misjudged jokes. Steven Moffat is going to have the final say over the final version, though. But Moffat's also shown himself to be very open to fan criticism, so I think it's very likely we're going to see him and Cornell reapproach his take on The First Doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 2:23:53 GMT
Particularly weird if he didn't come straight to 1963 Earth from Gallifrey and hung about history for a while. He'd have surely met a eunuch in his time or been exposed to a culture like ancient Mesopotamia or Indigenous America that have a non-binary third gender. You don't even have to be that vague, Barbara's dressing down of him in Edge of Destruction would have put that thought right out of his head anyway. *puts hands over face* It's damaging an old character to make a new character look better, like turning the Fifth Doctor into a colonialist thug to make Ten look more enlightened. *shows face, still wincing* Very uncomfortable. A disservice to the character. And you just succeed in making people angry, no one actually learns anything about the subject you're discussing. Paul Cornell, you've done wonderful things with the Third Doctor recently (re: Heralds of Destruction). Please, please, please give the First Doctor the characterisation he actually deserves. Put great character work ahead of some misjudged jokes. Steven Moffat is going to have the final say over the final version, though. But Moffat's also shown himself to be very open to fan criticism, so I think it's very likely we're going to see him and Cornell reapproach his take on The First Doctor. Or at the very least add to it. Cornell was the one who came up with the idea that the Third Doctor spent ten years dying of radiation poisoning, trapped aboard the TARDIS in vortex, before he returned home to UNIT HQ. I'd be very surprised if he didn't do a bit of lore-building or change the emphasis of the lines so they come off as the two incarnations just sniping at one another. The bizarre "smacked bottom" quip leaps out as something that could be turned into One just creating mischief.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 2:41:46 GMT
Steven Moffat is going to have the final say over the final version, though. But Moffat's also shown himself to be very open to fan criticism, so I think it's very likely we're going to see him and Cornell reapproach his take on The First Doctor. Or at the very least add to it. Cornell was the one who came up with the idea that the Third Doctor spent ten years dying of radiation poisoning, trapped aboard the TARDIS in vortex, before he returned home to UNIT HQ. I'd be very surprised if he didn't do a bit of lore-building or change the emphasis of the lines so they come off as the two incarnations just sniping at one another. The bizarre "smacked bottom" quip leaps out as something that could be turned into One just creating mischief. Oh, I liked the combative nature of the First and Twelfth Doctor's relationship, I wouldn't change it. The First Doctor never planned to be this big combative force in the universe and I'd argue that the First Doctor still wasn't quite comfortable with himself, far looser then his people, but still rather rigid (and he was also a parental figure to both Vicki and Dodo) . Twelve, by contrast, is a lot less inhibited, a true citizen of the universe. As for the smacked bottom line, it can else be reaproached by the First Doctor's memory problems being amplified by his oncoming regeneration or taken out enterily, replaced by the First Doctor's fierce protectiveness.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 3:16:56 GMT
Or at the very least add to it. Cornell was the one who came up with the idea that the Third Doctor spent ten years dying of radiation poisoning, trapped aboard the TARDIS in vortex, before he returned home to UNIT HQ. I'd be very surprised if he didn't do a bit of lore-building or change the emphasis of the lines so they come off as the two incarnations just sniping at one another. The bizarre "smacked bottom" quip leaps out as something that could be turned into One just creating mischief. Oh, I liked the combative nature of the First and Twelfth Doctor's relationship, I wouldn't change it. The First Doctor never planned to be this big combative force in the universe and I'd argue that the First Doctor still wasn't quite comfortable with himself, far looser then his people, but still rather rigid (and he was also a parental figure to both Vicki and Dodo) . Twelve, by contrast, is a lot less inhibited, a true citizen of the universe. As for the smacked bottom line, it can else be reaproached by the First Doctor's memory problems being amplified by his oncoming regeneration or taken out enterily, replaced by the First Doctor's fierce protectiveness. Oh, neither would I. Neither would I, that makes perfect sense. In fact, I'd make it more pronounced as the story goes on. There's a brilliant story in Vworp Vworp! Magazine, where the Doctor is being hunted down through his incarnations by this girl whose life was ruined by his actions in the Time War. She eventually comes to Totter's Lane and there's a magnificent little passage in there for One. I'll dig it up for here: And that's the First Doctor for me. He doesn't see himself as a righter of wrongs or a champion, but still just a traveller. A fugitive, in many respects. Twelve doesn't have to worry about the Time Lords killing him and Susan (or worse) for interfering in the greater history. Very much inhibited, very much still wary of reprisals from his People. It's ironic that he took on such an active role defending against evil during his second life, because that's probably what saved him from being dematerialised like the War Lord or straightforwardly imprisoned at the end of The War Games. What stuck in my craw with the television episode though is that it flaunts Writing 101, it turns the First Doctor into a mild Ron the Death Eater when there's really no reason for it. It's just... goofy. That said, it could've been way worse than it actually was. He's still given that scene with Bill where he talks about how life isn't a fairytale, which feels archetypal First Doctor.
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Post by smith11 on Apr 3, 2018 12:54:44 GMT
Quite surprised, my copy of ‘The Day of the Doctor’ has just arrived two days ahead but not the others
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 3, 2018 15:39:02 GMT
Enjoy! Was reading a review of The Day of the Doctor earlier and it sounds absolutely marvellous, down to the contents page and John Hurt dedication.
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 6, 2018 6:50:05 GMT
I’m halfway through The Day of the Doctor and it’s just a glorious read. The Night of the Doctor is included, and is appropriately recontextualised, all the little additions to Day itself are lovely. The structure of the book itself is a lot of fun, and there’s a few surprises along the way!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 7:03:20 GMT
Waiting for my copies in the mail
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Post by ollychops on Apr 6, 2018 7:13:00 GMT
I'm not quite halfway through TDOTD, but it's been quite a good read so far. Really happy with some of the additions to it.
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 7, 2018 8:51:33 GMT
Well, The Day of the Doctor was fabulous. There’s plenty of little additions and surprises; it’s just bloody good!
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Post by omega on May 4, 2018 11:12:03 GMT
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