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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 4:05:34 GMT
There's also another really interesting thematic undercurrent to the Fourth Doctor's final season beneath the entropy. If Season 16 was never judge anything at face value, then Season 18 is all about "places of power". From the Leisure Hive right through to Logopolis, the Doctor keeps turning up in locations that have played or are playing a significant part in the balance of life. Yet, they're not part of the world, they remain distinct from it -- the E-Space trilogy being the most prevalent with its focus on the Starliner, the Tower and the Gateway.
Season 18 more than its immediate cousins provokes a lot of "forest for the trees" kind of questions about the greater scope of the cosmos in Who. Some more heavily mined since their initial broadcast than others. Is Alzarius any indication of life on prehistoric Gallifrey in N-Space? What exactly were the Vampire Wars? What does Romana's decision to remain with the Tharils mean for E-Space? Now that Logopolis is gone... What does that mean for the balance of the universe*?
Befitting such a big Doctor, it opens up a lot of big questions about where things go from here. Logopolis's decay has a nice bit of symbolism for this new kindly Doctor: there are no more regulators, no more safeguards, anything can happen.
* - Enlightenment implies that the light certainly isn't winning and Time's Champion has the cosmic Breakdown occurring at the end of Sixie's life.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 10, 2018 8:34:45 GMT
Caught last two parts of Four to Doomsday. Ugh that was dreadful. The only saving graces are Tegan knocking Adric over and the Doctor relentlessly insulting him. The Doctor resolves the plot by just chucking a prop at the villain and then leaving as quickly as possible, can't say I blame him.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 10, 2018 10:28:49 GMT
Seen Kinda a few times now, but was interested to see how it would go down. Needless to say some commentators were very bemused by what they were watching, it is a very weird set of episodes. But it's weirdness in a good way: Tegan's dream scenes are freaky, the Kinda are uniquely alien and Hindle's breakdown is the most terrifying depiction of madness in the show.
Tbh I've always been slightly disappointed the Doctor doesn't kick out Adric and take Todd along instead.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 10, 2018 16:51:04 GMT
Caught last two parts of Four to Doomsday. Ugh that was dreadful. First two episodes are even worse. I know it was another time, but the Doctor and Tegan's automatic race prejudice against amphibians is shocking. It's lucky for them that they have Adric aboard, he's very open-minded to alternative ideas like Monarch's. We need more people like him in the world today.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 11, 2018 9:33:15 GMT
Black Orchid
Well that was odd. A mystery out of Jane Eyre, with some cricket.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 11, 2018 9:36:04 GMT
Black OrchidWell that was odd. A mystery out of Jane Eyre, with some cricket. But would you watch it again?
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 9:46:33 GMT
Davison and Fielding absolutely slaughter Black Orchid on the commentary. I actually quite like it - it's a lovely low key change of pace - but I agree with Davison when he says it feels like Terence Dudley had a rejected Marple script, rewrote it and this is what we got.
JNT comissioned it in the gap where there was no script editor. If it was just a few months later, when Saward was in post, I don't think we'd have gotten Black Orchid.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 11, 2018 11:24:26 GMT
EarthshockSeen it a few times now. It's a good one. I love the Cybermen's marching theme, the cliffhanger for Episodes 1 and 3 are great-thr Cybermen really enter the 80s in style. Poor Adric
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Post by pazzer on Jul 11, 2018 11:45:21 GMT
Full Circle Nice to see Romanas room. Surprised to see K9 piloting the Tardis. Now he's had his head knocked off and the Doctors waving it about. Adric feels pushed, not only does he basically announce he'll be a companion but he seems to be in every scene. There are some nice twists that I didn't expect and found it a really enjoyable story.
State Of Decay Adric seems to have gotten over his brothers death rather quickly. Like him more as he's not in every scene. At least until he starts talking. Story looks good and all the vampire tropes are there. Shame the ending isn't great. Is nice to see K9 having an active role in the story. Not sure why the vampires names have changed when their the same people. Some great moments with the Doctor and Romana like when she points him to the inspection hatch. The Doctor is going to get rid of Adric.
Warriors' Gate Now an alien is able to pilot the Tardis and somehow Adric is still on board. This is his third story and there's still no relationship between the Doctor, Romana and Adric. Not sure if it's the writers or if Matthew, Lalla and Tom just didn't get on. Now K9 gets thrown out of a spaceship. Sad to see Romana leave. Very enjoyable though found it slightly confusing with all the time jumping.
The Keeper Of Traken The White Guardian is back, oh no it's just the keeper whos appeared inside the Tardis. Traken looks good. Tremas is a good character. Really like Nyssa, she builds her own stun gun and bribes guards. Don't think the Master really adds anything though is better than his last appearance. Why does the Master need two Tardis and how come one transforms into a giant robot. Not sure why Kassia had to die and how she became under the Masters control. Thought the Master stealing body at the end was good.
Logopolis Nice to see the Doctor missing Romana. Like Adric more in this story. Tegan is fine. Glad to see Nyssa is back. Master looks great but all the laughing makes him seem like a pantomime villain. Know the Master is evil but after the handshake I couldn't see the Delgado Master turning on the Doctor. So it feels a bit cheap when this Master does. Not sure why the Watcher is here and if it's meant to be the 5th doctor or just a future version. Didn't really care when Traken was destroyed.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 11, 2018 11:56:13 GMT
Full Circle Nice to see Romanas room. Surprised to see K9 piloting the Tardis. Now he's had his head knocked off and the Doctors waving it about. Adric feels pushed, not only does he basically announce he'll be a companion but he seems to be in every scene. There are some nice twists that I didn't expect and found it a really enjoyable story. State Of Decay Adric seems to have gotten over his brothers death rather quickly. Like him more as he's not in every scene. At least until he starts talking. Story looks good and all the vampire tropes are there. Shame the ending isn't great. Is nice to see K9 having an active role in the story. Not sure why the vampires names have changed when their the same people. Some great moments with the Doctor and Romana like when she points him to the inspection hatch. The Doctor is going to get rid of Adric. Warriors' Gate Now an alien is able to pilot the Tardis and somehow Adric is still on board. This is his third story and there's still no relationship between the Doctor, Romana and Adric. Not sure if it's the writers or if Matthew, Lalla and Tom just didn't get on. Now K9 gets thrown out of a spaceship. Sad to see Romana leave. Very enjoyable though found it slightly confusing with all the time jumping. The Keeper Of Traken The White Guardian is back, oh no it's just the keeper whos appeared inside the Tardis. Traken looks good. Tremas is a good character. Really like Nyssa, she builds her own stun gun and bribes guards. Don't think the Master really adds anything though is better than his last appearance. Why does the Master need two Tardis and how come one transforms into a giant robot. Not sure why Kassia had to die and how she became under the Masters control. Thought the Master stealing body at the end was good. Logopolis Nice to see the Doctor missing Romana. Like Adric more in this story. Tegan is fine. Glad to see Nyssa is back. Master looks great but all the laughing makes him seem like a pantomime villain. Know the Master is evil but after the handshake I couldn't see the Delgado Master turning on the Doctor. So it feels a bit cheap when this Master does. Not sure why the Watcher is here and if it's meant to be the 5th doctor or just a future version. Didn't really care when Traken was destroyed. The Watcher is the Doctor mid-regeneration, exactly how he exists has never been elaborated on. I suppose he's a less sophisticated version of Cho-Je from Planet of the Spiders.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 11, 2018 13:19:33 GMT
Time-Flight
What exactly was the Master turning to achieve? Nominally he's fixing his TARDIS, so why not just steal the Doctor's when he turns up? Why disguise himself as a wizard? It's pretty convenient that he happened to get stranded right where the Xeraphin are too. Why does he try to kidnap the passengers at the end? Just for fun? What's so vital about the temporal component he gets off the Doctor at the end, the Doctor's TARDIS seems fine without it.
Why does the Doctor seem to think all will be fine and dandy for the Xeraphin, they're still prisoners in the Master's TARDIS. The fact his TARDIS is on their planet won't change that, does it?
Guessing they thought of the whole kidnapping Concorde thing before shoving in the Master. This doesn't even work as an advert for Concorde anymore.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 11, 2018 14:05:50 GMT
Time-FlightWhat exactly was the Master turning to achieve? Nominally he's fixing his TARDIS, so why not just steal the Doctor's when he turns up? Why disguise himself as a wizard? It's pretty convenient that he happened to get stranded right where the Xeraphin are too. Why does he try to kidnap the passengers at the end? Just for fun? What's so vital about the temporal component he gets off the Doctor at the end, the Doctor's TARDIS seems fine without it. Why does the Doctor seem to think all will be fine and dandy for the Xeraphin, they're still prisoners in the Master's TARDIS. The fact his TARDIS is on their planet won't change that, does it? Guessing they thought of the whole kidnapping Concorde thing before shoving in the Master. This doesn't even work as an advert for Concorde anymore. Putting it like that, this is the first time I've understood why some people have an issue with this story. I've always rather enjoyed it, though I can see how that would let it down somewhat for others (but this is coming from the guy who enjoys both Warriors of the Deep and The Web Planet more than most, so what would I know ).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 14:38:56 GMT
Why The Master keeps the disguise and voice up even when he's on his own is the most baffling part for me.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 11, 2018 16:47:11 GMT
Why The Master keeps the disguise and voice up even when he's on his own is the most baffling part for me. I assume it's a requirement of his pilfered technology?
I also watched "The Visitation", I rather liked how it was left to the audience's own knowledge to explain the historical context. Also, watching the 17thC version of Richard Mace makes me think Big Finish should revive the 19thC version from Radio 4 and team him up with Henry Gordon Jago!
(Also amusing - several of the comments on 'Earthshock' referenced 'The Boy Who Time Forgot'!)
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Post by aemiliapaula on Jul 12, 2018 1:01:50 GMT
State Of Decay Not sure why the vampires names have changed when their the same people. Because of Grimm' Law, which is a lingustic rule about consonant change. The Doctor and Romana mention it. Yes, that is one of the Brothers Grimm en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_lawThe idea is the vampires have been around so long that the changes happened over time. Although that relates to Germanic languages on Earth, I assume Romana and the Doctor speak to each other in Gallifreyan, I don't even know what language the Vampires would have spoken! But the Time Lords must have similar linguistic rules. For an example of a change over time (not due to Grimm's law) the places in the UK with -cester in their name, like Manchester, Worcester, Chichester, etc. got it from the Latin "castra", which means camp. They are places where the Roman army had a camp. And here in New England we have a lot of the same names (even though the Romans were not here!)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 1:39:47 GMT
Seen Kinda a few times now, but was interested to see how it would go down. Needless to say some commentators were very bemused by what they were watching, it is a very weird set of episodes. But it's weirdness in a good way: Tegan's dream scenes are freaky, the Kinda are uniquely alien and Hindle's breakdown is the most terrifying depiction of madness in the show. Tbh I've always been slightly disappointed the Doctor doesn't kick out Adric and take Todd along instead. Oh, god, serious props to Richard Todd for playing the neurotic breakdown beautifully. Hindle's another one of those characters which Doctor Who just seems to do so deftly; someone who's antagonistic, but not a straightforward villain. It doesn't come from any outside influence like Tegan's walkabout with the Mara. I actually find Hindle creepier than the Mara -- although not by much considering the horrible thing is inside Tegan's head -- because what afflicts him is just so... ordinary. I really love Kinda. It's a psychological thriller, cerebral art piece and character study all in one. You'd expect these kinds of stories to be very dry, but Chris Bailey has this phenomenal capacity for texture. All the symbolism is for a purpose and Deva Loka feels like somewhere that will still be there long after the Doctor's gone.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 12, 2018 10:33:59 GMT
Mawdryn Undead
That was alright. Not a particularly high stakes story, but pretty entertaining. The twist with Nyssa and Tegan in the final part is a gut punch, the make-up makes their degeneration look really nasty. The Brig was fun to see again, with a nicely scored clip show too.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 12, 2018 12:25:02 GMT
Arc of Infinity
Ugh that was dull. Least inspiring depiction of the Time Lords by far, they just sit around spouting technobabble. The final scene between the Doctor and Omega is alright but it's far too little, far too late.
And how on earth does the Doctor know what the Ergon is? He seems fairly blasé about it too, so are there loads of undocumented encounters between the Doctor and Ergons?
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Post by sherlock on Jul 12, 2018 13:02:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2018 21:51:08 GMT
Arc of InfinityUgh that was dull. Least inspiring depiction of the Time Lords by far, they just sit around spouting technobabble. The final scene between the Doctor and Omega is alright but it's far too little, far too late. And how on earth does the Doctor know what the Ergon is? He seems fairly blasé about it too, so are there loads of undocumented encounters between the Doctor and Ergons? Y'know... I wonder if Ergons were things which existed during Gallifrey's old days of Empire? As in, when they were just starting out with Qqaba and stellar manipulators, I wonder if they were a species that contributed to Omega's experiments in some way? Then again, it does feel a bit, well... unreal (even for a psychosynthetic "plucked chicken"), so maybe it's the Gallifreyan equivalent of a golem or a unicorn? A mythological creature made flesh? The Matrix feels a bit wasted here as well with the Doctor just floating in the void. Imagine the kind of imagery you could conjure up with the Doctor trapped in this Alice in Wonderland inversion of the Capitol. Same actors, same sets, different lighting and everyone's in the sway of Omega, even the projection of Nyssa. As it is though, it never quite comes together in the way that it should and the very basic premise is sound. David Martin would reuse the idea of Omega bodysnatching the Doctor for his own version of a sequel, Search for the Doctor, in a much more fun way: an attack from Earth's future CERN project aimed at Gallifrey.
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