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Post by Ela on Oct 19, 2018 0:42:07 GMT
Yeah... I REALLY didn’t like this one. Literally not one single element of the story went anywhere. The water was full of flesh eating microbes, but we never saw it eat anyone or even any part of the ship or something. The beedsheet monsters were silly, and the scene at the end where the Doctor full gives up and resigns herself to her fate only for the TARDIS to arrive seconds later was incredibly stupid. Goddess, I really miss Moffat. I loved the bedsheet monsters. I thought it was a cool idea for turning something ordinary into something scary.
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Post by number13 on Oct 19, 2018 0:44:14 GMT
Second viewing and I enjoyed it again, not as good as the amazing TWWFTE but a very entertaining episode and an easy 4* from me.
It looks and sounds magnificent and the dynamic and chat between the TARDIS crew came across very well - at least betwen the Doctor, Graham and Ryan. In this script Yas could have taken the week off, Hartnell-era style, but no doubt her moment will come in future stories.
I agree the plot was a straightforward quest story but why not? 'Doctor Who' is at hearts an adventure serial and this was a good adventure story with a goal to reach, problems to solve and monsters to fight. Far more in the style of classic Who than I was expecting but that's certainly not a complaint! melkur has it right with the 'Terry Nation' reference and Davy with the 'Keys of Marinus' - full credit that they managed to pull off a quest story in just one episode and to me it didn't feel rushed. I was impressed they managed to make the time to simply travel and talk, 'Marco Polo' style, on the boat. I was half-expecting we were going to get a dance performance or a chess game too.
Highlights: - Loving that "21stC/Third Doctor" theme and titles.
- Ryan's 'Call of Duty' moment, excellent lol! - Venusian Aikido!! My Doctor lives again! - the reveal of what 'The Ghost Monument' was. Oooh!
- the 'blanket monsters' - shades of M.R.James' 'Oh Whistle and I'll Come to You'. How many viewers went to bed a bit afraid of their sheets and duvets, I wonder?! - Chekov's Cigar and some educational science content Ian would have been proud of - watch 'Doctor Who' and learn about acetylene, very Hartnell-era, again. - the Moral Message: Cooperate and win together. (I think Ilin would really have had a way to deal, drastically, with competitors who broke the rules and threatened him but that's another matter.)
Downsides: - Not enough Art Malik - Far too much sonic - Two stereotypical 'selfless female competing for her family' and 'egotistical alpha-male out for himself' competitors, but well played and at least Epzo saw the light at the end.
And a final highlight was the Doctor meeting her new TARDIS. However, while I like the crystalline style as a design concept I'm not sure it says 'TARDIS' to me and I loved the Capaldi library TARDIS. But if the new-look Ship gets the Doctor and her friends in and out of more adventures like these first two weeks, I'll be well satisfied.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 19, 2018 0:50:36 GMT
- Chekov's Cigar and some educational science content Ian would have been proud of - watch 'Doctor Who' and learn about acetylene, very Hartnell-era, again. This was something I'd forgot to mention in my own thoughts: I really like Chris is implementing the educational aspect in stuff beyond the historicals. It was great to see the Doctor use a little real science to defeat a bad guy beyond normal 'action-adventure' stuff like lasers or circuits or bombs, providing a little lesson in the weight of gases Plus, it was also a little subversion, since you would expect the cigar to be some sort of friendship token at the end where the two split it. {spoilers for future episodes} Wonder what the Arachnids episode will teach us about the wall crawlers? And with a pregnant man story in the wings, wonder what we'll learn about unconvetional reproduction.
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Post by Whovitt on Oct 19, 2018 0:55:43 GMT
- Chekov's Cigar and some educational science content Ian would have been proud of - watch 'Doctor Who' and learn about acetylene, very Hartnell-era, again. This was something I'd forgot to mention in my own thoughts: I really like Chris is implementing the educational aspect in stuff beyond the historicals. It was great to see the Doctor use a little real science to defeat a bad guy beyond normal 'action-adventure' stuff like lasers or circuits or bombs, providing a little lesson in the weight of gases Plus, it was also a little subversion, since you would expect the cigar to be some sort of friendship token at the end where the two split it. {Spoiler}{spoilers for future episodes} Wonder what the Arachnids episode will teach us about the wall crawlers? And with a pregnant man story in the wings, wonder what we'll learn about unconvetional reproduction.
{Spoiler}{spoilers for future episodes}Pregnant man story? Did I miss something? When did we learn about a pregnant man story?
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 19, 2018 1:01:27 GMT
This was something I'd forgot to mention in my own thoughts: I really like Chris is implementing the educational aspect in stuff beyond the historicals. It was great to see the Doctor use a little real science to defeat a bad guy beyond normal 'action-adventure' stuff like lasers or circuits or bombs, providing a little lesson in the weight of gases Plus, it was also a little subversion, since you would expect the cigar to be some sort of friendship token at the end where the two split it. Wonder what the Arachnids episode will teach us about the wall crawlers? And with a pregnant man story in the wings, wonder what we'll learn about unconvetional reproduction.
Pregnant man story? Did I miss something? When did we learn about a pregnant man story? It was in the leaked photos from a couple months. Two shots.
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Post by Whovitt on Oct 19, 2018 1:15:00 GMT
{Spoiler}Pregnant man story? Did I miss something? When did we learn about a pregnant man story? ? It was in the leaked photos from a couple months. Two shots. Okay... 1) Probably not something to be talking about in a general, non-spoiler thread; 2) I mean, I shouldn't judge before I've seen it, but that's a very fan-ficcy type thing to do... At least it isn't one of the TARDIS crew (I hope...).
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Post by rran on Oct 19, 2018 5:37:13 GMT
It was in the leaked photos from a couple months. Two shots. Okay... 1) Probably not something to be talking about in a general, non-spoiler thread; 2) I mean, I shouldn't judge before I've seen it, but that's a very fan-ficcy type thing to do... At least it isn't one of the TARDIS crew (I hope...). I’ll try not to over-react, but Nooooo! And I agree with the fan-ficcy thing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2018 8:13:33 GMT
It was in the leaked photos from a couple months. Two shots. Okay... 1) Probably not something to be talking about in a general, non-spoiler thread; 2) I mean, I shouldn't judge before I've seen it, but that's a very fan-ficcy type thing to do... At least it isn't one of the TARDIS crew (I hope...). Fan-ficcy? Doesn't seem fan-ficcy to me. Just a familiar sci-fi what if trope. Fan-ficcy is stuff like BFs River Song meeting all the Doctors etc
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 19, 2018 8:51:44 GMT
Okay... 1) Probably not something to be talking about in a general, non-spoiler thread; 2) I mean, I shouldn't judge before I've seen it, but that's a very fan-ficcy type thing to do... At least it isn't one of the TARDIS crew (I hope...). Fan-ficcy? Doesn't seem fan-ficcy to me. Just a familiar sci-fi what if trope. Fan-ficcy is stuff like BFs River Song meeting all the Doctors etc We'll see what happens with it, so far I think Chibnall's doing great but I think it a could be a particularly easy trope to get silly with. In fact, if not fan-ficcy, I think Moffaty is how it strikes me, but maybe Chibnall will come up with something to make of besides a farce. I could see your point somewhat about River, I might actually prefer her to have some sort of life that doesn't revolve around The Doctor but that probably would be a big departure from what the TV series has given her. Nothing fan-ficcy in my book about writers like Dorney, though, even when he's having a bit of fun.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 19, 2018 9:29:24 GMT
It was in the leaked photos from a couple months. Two shots. Okay... 1) Probably not something to be talking about in a general, non-spoiler thread; Masterdoc and davy already argued it was out there, it's fair game to talk about. And has been for several months.
And 2, this is a spoiler thread, so fair game again and 3) You asked the question. I gave you an answer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2018 9:58:17 GMT
Okay... 1) Probably not something to be talking about in a general, non-spoiler thread; Masterdoc and davy already argued it was out there, it's fair game to talk about. And has been for several months.
And 2, this is a spoiler thread, so fair game again and 3) You asked the question. I gave you an answer.
Does it say spoilers in the title? If this was the series 11 thread then fair but i think its unfair to talk about an episode weeks away on an episode two thread (i mean its not even in the trailer, its a leaked image) But then thats just me 🤷♂️
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 19, 2018 10:10:42 GMT
Masterdoc and davy already argued it was out there, it's fair game to talk about. And has been for several months.
And 2, this is a spoiler thread, so fair game again and 3) You asked the question. I gave you an answer.
Does it say spoilers in the title? If this was the series 11 thread then fair but i think its unfair to talk about an episode weeks away on an episode two thread (i mean its not even in the trailer, its a leaked image) But then thats just me 🤷♂️ And you are entitled to that view (though OP does warn spoilers). But Whovitt asked the question. I only gave an answer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2018 10:49:59 GMT
Masterdoc and davy already argued it was out there, it's fair game to talk about. And has been for several months.
And 2, this is a spoiler thread, so fair game again and 3) You asked the question. I gave you an answer.
Does it say spoilers in the title? If this was the series 11 thread then fair but i think its unfair to talk about an episode weeks away on an episode two thread (i mean its not even in the trailer, its a leaked image) But then thats just me 🤷♂️ Correct. This is a spoiler thread for this particular episode NOT the season as a whole! Be careful people. Or at least use the spoiler tag if discussing future epsiodes.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Oct 19, 2018 11:26:50 GMT
BBC America was watched by 1.119 million. A drop of 18%.
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Post by Whovitt on Oct 19, 2018 12:15:00 GMT
Okay... 1) Probably not something to be talking about in a general, non-spoiler thread; Masterdoc and davy already argued it was out there, it's fair game to talk about. And has been for several months.
And 2, this is a spoiler thread, so fair game again and 3) You asked the question. I gave you an answer.
I don't want to turn this into an argument, so I'm going to try to explain myself as clearly as I can (because I do sometimes type things knowing what I mean but not necessarily actually explaining myself) and not cause a row (because I also seem to be causing a bit of that lately too). My point about it being a non-spoiler thread is that this thread is dedicated to discussion regarding The Ghost Monument. Any other Series 11 spoilers should not be posted here (except perhaps ones from The Woman Who Fell to Earth) because there is a thread dedicated to discussing things we know about the series that haven't been officially announced/confirmed yet. As for my asking, it was because I thought there had been some form of official announcement I'd missed (more than possible); I didn't realise I was enquiring into leaked images, which I'd rather avoid knowing about. It may not have been your intention, but the "2)... 3)..." styling to your response comes off as a bit rude, in a "Well, if that's the way you're going to play it" sort of way (from my perspective - I fully appreciate that it may not have been meant in that manner). I would like to say that in no way was I trying to rude to you in my initial post, I was just using that formatting choice as a way of conveying my points. If it came across in any way insulting I'd like to apologise for that, as it was in no way my intention. As for the people discussing the "fan-ficcy" comment, my point of view is probably a bit skewed on that as I knew someone who used to write fanfiction of a certain popular boy band, with "m-preg" being one of the genres she wrote. The idea was just plain weird to me at the time, and that's probably coloured my perception of things a bit.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 19, 2018 14:46:43 GMT
Masterdoc and davy already argued it was out there, it's fair game to talk about. And has been for several months.
And 2, this is a spoiler thread, so fair game again and 3) You asked the question. I gave you an answer.
I don't want to turn this into an argument, so I'm going to try to explain myself as clearly as I can (because I do sometimes type things knowing what I mean but not necessarily actually explaining myself) and not cause a row (because I also seem to be causing a bit of that lately too). My point about it being a non-spoiler thread is that this thread is dedicated to discussion regarding The Ghost Monument. Any other Series 11 spoilers should not be posted here (except perhaps ones from The Woman Who Fell to Earth) because there is a thread dedicated to discussing things we know about the series that haven't been officially announced/confirmed yet. As for my asking, it was because I thought there had been some form of official announcement I'd missed (more than possible); I didn't realise I was enquiring into leaked images, which I'd rather avoid knowing about. It may not have been your intention, but the "2)... 3)..." styling to your response comes off as a bit rude, in a "Well, if that's the way you're going to play it" sort of way (from my perspective - I fully appreciate that it may not have been meant in that manner). I would like to say that in no way was I trying to rude to you in my initial post, I was just using that formatting choice as a way of conveying my points. If it came across in any way insulting I'd like to apologise for that, as it was in no way my intention. As for the people discussing the "fan-ficcy" comment, my point of view is probably a bit skewed on that as I knew someone who used to write fanfiction of a certain popular boy band, with "m-preg" being one of the genres she wrote. The idea was just plain weird to me at the time, and that's probably coloured my perception of things a bit. And if I came off as brash, then I apologize in turn. I should have also specified that the leaked images were just the man: no indication of what episode he would be in, what happens or if he would be a main or key player, nor is he played by one of the 'Coming Soon' trailer stars.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2018 16:45:37 GMT
BBC America was watched by 1.119 million. A drop of 18%. I think that we need to recognise that there was always going to be a spike in ratings out of curiosity about the new female Doctor, and that there will be some confirmation bias when things stabilise. Peple have been predicting this on both sides of the fence. The will undoubtedly be a proportion of viewers who have decided not to watch the new series on the grounds of this change. If long term fans and BF listeners have their fair share then we cannot expect the wider viewing to be neutral in this. The pay off for Chibnall will be if the series gains traction and gains new viewers who have not been Dr Who regulars, over the course of the run. That is to say, if viewing figures start to grow back, as opposed to the gradual shedding of viewers over the course of each recent run of episodes. It is early days yet, but like Audity, I see no benefit in seeing the series face cancellation nor will i be happy if the doubters amongst us (myself included) have to say 'I told you so'. A cancellation this time around could have a domino effect for the likes of Big Finish, The Magazine and Books, as, being tightly controlled in a way they never used to be, the brand as a whole may end up being 'rested'. Careful what we wish for...
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Post by Ela on Oct 19, 2018 16:50:49 GMT
Does it say spoilers in the title? If this was the series 11 thread then fair but i think its unfair to talk about an episode weeks away on an episode two thread (i mean its not even in the trailer, its a leaked image) But then thats just me 🤷♂️ And you are entitled to that view (though OP does warn spoilers). But Whovitt asked the question. I only gave an answer. Actually, I agree that spoilers for future episodes should not be in this thread. Please edit your posts accordingly. Thanks.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 19, 2018 17:41:24 GMT
I think that we need to recognise that there was always going to be a spike in ratings out of curiosity about the new female Doctor, and that there will be some confirmation bias when things stabilise. Peple have been predicting this on both sides of the fence. The will undoubtedly be a proportion of viewers who have decided not to watch the new series on the grounds of this change. If long term fans and BF listeners have their fair share then we cannot expect the wider viewing to be neutral in this. The pay off for Chibnall will be if the series gains traction and gains new viewers who have not been Dr Who regulars, over the course of the run. That is to say, if viewing figures start to grow back, as opposed to the gradual shedding of viewers over the course of each recent run of episodes. It is early days yet, but like Audity, I see no benefit in seeing the series face cancellation nor will i be happy if the doubters amongst us (myself included) have to say 'I told you so'. A cancellation this time around could have a domino effect for the likes of Big Finish, The Magazine and Books, as, being tightly controlled in a way they never used to be, the brand as a whole may end up being 'rested'. Careful what we wish for... It is early days and I can't pretend to know more or be any more right than anyone else, but I do think context will play a big role in what the stablised figures look like: Eccleston's first series suffered a much harsher drop in viewers than Whittaker's, and that was back when there was less competition and with a diminished internet culture element at play. When the seven days come back, GM will likely have hit a little past the 9m mark, so the total drop will have been about 1m, which is peanuts compared to so many shows. Compare that to End of the World, which lost nearly 3m. Gendered-hype alone can't explain that, and since Rosa has the advantadge of being topical and in the middle of a major British event like Black History Month, I could see increase happening sooner. Even Arachnids could turn it up, since it airs close to halloween and there's been stories in the press about false widows cropping up more often, including in schools.
I get people are annoyed with constant ratings discussion, and I won't act like I'm fond of blabbing about numbers either. But like it or not, that was always an integral part of the entire S11 miasma: could Jodie outmatch the wroth of the internet echo chambers who decreed a woman Doctor 'unpalatable' (to put it very nicely) and reclaim the show's stature as family teatime viewing in an era where, for all intents and purposes, that model simply doesn't exist anymore? And toe to toe with the BBC's golden child The Bodyguard? In 2018, and with big rival 'geek' properties like Stranger Things, Westworld, Lost In Space, STD, Orville, Game of Thrones and the Marvel stuff, that's no small feat.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 19, 2018 17:56:55 GMT
Another thing to bear in mind (again, not to beat the ratings horse more and to keep this about GM), growth in TV ratings terms doesn't mean the same thing it did, even just a few years ago. It's no longer just about increases and decreases week to week: it's about IPlayer, on-demand, streaming, watching on devices other a tv set. They now even include data 30 days on from initial broadcast. Considering how the BBC's funded and how that informs what shows it does and doesn't keep on the air, that's not chicken feed.
If there is one all-round positive, whether you like the show or not: I think a lot of people on here have gained an insight into how modern British TV is made and works, and what exactly are the challenges facing Who in the future.
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