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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 16, 2018 16:17:47 GMT
Stubagful (He Who Moans on Youtube and one of the few reviewing BF on the site) made an interesting observation about the series thus far: Chibnall, whether you like his work or not, is an anlytical writer, and one who is clearly very aware of the landscape. He has heard the frequent complaints levelled at Moffat's era (overcomplicated plots, characters as maguffins/mystery boxes, imblanace of humour and one liners, death not being meaningful) and taken them to task, offering a much leaner, tighter and, despite the bigger budget, less show-off series. Even in little details like side-characters having clear personalities and viewpoints (even small players like the Security Guard Grandpa and Ilin) compared to the common critcism of Moffat supporting players being joke-machines or bland redshirts, you can see a more conscientious leader. Wonder if the dialogue complaints will be addressed in S12, assuming he hasn't already toned down later this one. Not sure if it can be said with any certainty that Chibbers is reaction against Moffats era or addressing some fans perceived shortcomings. Its probably more likely that he is making the version of the show he wants. Naturally I can't claim to know Chibnall's mind. Just echoing what was said.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 16:23:26 GMT
Stubagful (He Who Moans on Youtube and one of the few reviewing BF on the site) made an interesting observation about the series thus far: Chibnall, whether you like his work or not, is an anlytical writer, and one who is clearly very aware of the landscape. He has heard the frequent complaints levelled at Moffat's era (overcomplicated plots, characters as maguffins/mystery boxes, imblanace of humour and one liners, death not being meaningful) and taken them to task, offering a much leaner, tighter and, despite the bigger budget, less show-off series. Even in little details like side-characters having clear personalities and viewpoints (even small players like the Security Guard Grandpa and Ilin) compared to the common critcism of Moffat supporting players being joke-machines or bland redshirts, you can see a more conscientious leader. Wonder if the dialogue complaints will be addressed in S12, assuming he hasn't already toned down later this one. Maybe so, but for my money, Dr Who hasn’t been this bland since the early 1980s, and Chibnall has a load of problems writing his own dialogue to be consciously reacting to Moffat. In fact, I’d say that Chibnall is really trying to go for the jokey vibe whenever he can, but doesn’t quite have the chops to pull it off. Interesting. Only 2 episodes in but this is so much better than the appalling Capalid era. The worst era of Who since 7th Doctor.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 16, 2018 16:32:10 GMT
Stubagful (He Who Moans on Youtube and one of the few reviewing BF on the site) made an interesting observation about the series thus far: Chibnall, whether you like his work or not, is an anlytical writer, and one who is clearly very aware of the landscape. He has heard the frequent complaints levelled at Moffat's era (overcomplicated plots, characters as maguffins/mystery boxes, imblanace of humour and one liners, death not being meaningful) and taken them to task, offering a much leaner, tighter and, despite the bigger budget, less show-off series. Even in little details like side-characters having clear personalities and viewpoints (even small players like the Security Guard Grandpa and Ilin) compared to the common critcism of Moffat supporting players being joke-machines or bland redshirts, you can see a more conscientious leader. Wonder if the dialogue complaints will be addressed in S12, assuming he hasn't already toned down later this one. While I do not agree with everything in his reviews, I actually quite enjoy them and they are quite good (especially concerning his BF reviews). And with series 11 and Chibnall, I can see his point and I understand where he is coming from.
So yes, he might have a point there. Chibnall certainly seems to have taken some of the common critizisms to heart. We will see if he continues with this when he is confronted with critizisms to his own work (as opposed to Moffat who trolled his critics; for example with Clara's face in the opening credits (Clara Who)).
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 16, 2018 16:38:38 GMT
Interesting. Only 2 episodes in but this is so much better than the appalling Capalid era. The worst era of Who since 7th Doctor. Well, that is a matter of opinion. I liked Capaldi best so far. But we had that discussion previously...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 16:53:48 GMT
Maybe so, but for my money, Dr Who hasn’t been this bland since the early 1980s, and Chibnall has a load of problems writing his own dialogue to be consciously reacting to Moffat. In fact, I’d say that Chibnall is really trying to go for the jokey vibe whenever he can, but doesn’t quite have the chops to pull it off. Interesting. Only 2 episodes in but this is so much better than the appalling Capalid era. The worst era of Who since 7th Doctor. That’s quite strange because I love both of those eras. We’re 2 episodes into the Chibnall era and it’s already chock-full of unmemorable monsters and wonky dialogue, which is pretty par for the course for him. I mean I don’t hate it, but I’m much more looking forward to the improvements for series 12 than the remainder of this series.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 16, 2018 17:03:53 GMT
Interesting. Only 2 episodes in but this is so much better than the appalling Capalid era. The worst era of Who since 7th Doctor. That’s quite strange because I love both of those eras. We’re 2 episodes into the Chibnall era and it’s already chock-full of unmemorable monsters and wonky dialogue, which is pretty par for the course for him. I mean I don’t hate it, but I’m much more looking forward to the improvements for series 12 than the remainder of this series. It wasn't really THAT bad. Although I agree the Stenza tooth fairy was a tat uninspired.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Oct 16, 2018 19:12:29 GMT
Maybe so, but for my money, Dr Who hasn’t been this bland since the early 1980s, and Chibnall has a load of problems writing his own dialogue to be consciously reacting to Moffat. In fact, I’d say that Chibnall is really trying to go for the jokey vibe whenever he can, but doesn’t quite have the chops to pull it off. Interesting. Only 2 episodes in but this is so much better than the appalling Capalid era. The worst era of Who since 7th Doctor. Personally the Capaldi era was far and away my favourite of New Who, I've yet to watch any of the Mcoy Serials, but the 12th Doctor era rivals the B+W 60's era and BF McGann as my favourite era of Who overall. I said before I was unlikely to watch the 13th Dr episodes, due to a lack of interest in the trailers/marketing/approach Chibnall seems to be taking (amongst other factors)...I've been away and missed both episodes of the Jodie Whitaker Doctor so far...and honestly I've felt no desire so far to catch up...I lost interest in Who part way through the smith era dn stopped watching for a couple of years, within the first two episodes of the Capaldi era I was hooked again...I guess Chibnall's approach has lost one fan and regained another. But each to their own, I'll stick with the Who and Doctors I enjoy, and I'm certainly pleased that many other viewers seemed to have forged a similar connection with the 13th Dr in as short a period of time as I forged with 12...
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Post by doctorkernow on Oct 16, 2018 21:43:20 GMT
Hello again. Everyone has an opinion. What I like about this forum is no one is offensive if you disagree. It is a place for fans to have intelligent witty discussion about the best show ever.
That said, no show or era is without its faults and each reviewer has their own particular things they appreciate and other things they can't stand.
l too think Stubagful aka He who moans is hilarious. His analysis of Hell Bent is a particular highlight.
I think its too early to judge the Chibnall era. It took me until Dalek to get a handle on Russell's vision of the series but from then on I was hooked. Come back and ask me at Christmas. Historical next week yippee!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 22:28:51 GMT
Interesting. Only 2 episodes in but this is so much better than the appalling Capalid era. The worst era of Who since 7th Doctor. I'd go with... only 2 episodes in but this is so much better than I thought it would be!
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Post by constonks on Oct 17, 2018 2:52:01 GMT
Finally watched it - another one that's very light on plot, but I cared far more about Karl and Grace in the previous episode than I did about Angstrom & Epzo. (That's a common failing of future-set stories, though. Sometimes without a good touchstone, it's hard to connect with space folks - and yeah, Chibnall's had that problem before, like how in 42... something something something.)
Although when I say "very light", it is really even lighter than last week. A very linear quest with easy solutions to every problem. I'd like to see this team deal with more complex stories in future - but I'm sure future weeks will split them up more, give them subplots, etc.
Things I liked a lot though: The new TARDIS looks odd and spectacular, Graham's easily my favourite of the new companions, the ribbon monsters were neat and the show continues to look brilliantly cinematic. Oh! And the title sequence. Love the Pertwee-intro/Rorschach-esque symmetry. Feels like what we'd have gotten if this was the first Who since 1972.
Overall, not a bad episode, but pretty middling. Gets a 3/5 from me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 14:02:07 GMT
This mostly blew my mind. Once more, the excellent music and sound design are as big a star as the cast - this would work as an audio, so sumptuous does it sound. Things could perhaps do with being a tiny bit more dynamic. There's a huge amount of standing around talking. It is somewhat slow-moving in places but again this is, I think, more to do with deliberate change than anything else. There is an Ian/Barbara/Susan vibe from the companions - they actually have real conversations. Even though they are stuck far beyond anything within their understanding, they approach it all as real, grounded people, especially Graham.
And b*gger me, it looks gorgeous. I'm reminded of the original Planet of Apes film, where the astronauts were exploring their new world. I loved the ribbon creatures - great idea wonderfully realised. Very Pitch Black! And I loved The Doctor reprimanding Ryan for the use of guns. It's all good, it really is. So much better than I thought it would, be. And the TARDIS as an infinite proportioned, strange and eerie time contraption is wonderfully effective. Possibly the high-point of the episode for me. Oh, and who said cigars are bad for you?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 17:06:05 GMT
This had an AI of 82. For those who like to list these things, that's the same as Deep Breath, Last Christmas, The Return of Doctor Mysterio, Husbands of River Song, Boom Town, Aliens of London, Robot of Sherwood, Listen, Kill the Moon, The Girl Who Died, Hell Bent, Before the Flood, The Pyramid at the End of the World, The Zygon Invasion, Extremis and The Lie of the Land.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 17, 2018 17:17:07 GMT
This had an AI of 82. For those who like to list these things, that's the same as Deep Breath, Last Christmas, The Return of Doctor Mysterio, Husbands of River Song, Boom Town, Aliens of London, Robot of Sherwood, Listen, Kill the Moon, The Girl Who Died, Hell Bent, Before the Flood, The Pyramid at the End of the World, The Zygon Invasion, Extremis and The Lie of the Land. This scoring index confuses me no end. From my perspective, it does not make a lot of sense for telling me the quality of the episode (it may not even be used as such). I mean, lumping in HELL BENT (and Kill the Moon....) with some of these others and the Ghost Monument is just plain wrong on several levels.
But, the less said about that episode, the better. What type of people did they ask? They must have been wildly different types of people, cannot explain it any other way.
Anyways, I reckon Ghost Monument, while not perfect, was indeed better than Hell Bent and the thing with the egg in the moon. But as usual, people like me do not get asked in these things...
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Post by thethirddoctor on Oct 17, 2018 17:41:51 GMT
This had an AI of 82. For those who like to list these things, that's the same as Deep Breath, Last Christmas, The Return of Doctor Mysterio, Husbands of River Song, Boom Town, Aliens of London, Robot of Sherwood, Listen, Kill the Moon, The Girl Who Died, Hell Bent, Before the Flood, The Pyramid at the End of the World, The Zygon Invasion, Extremis and The Lie of the Land. This scoring index confuses me no end. From my perspective, it does not make a lot of sense for telling me the quality of the episode (it may not even be used as such). I mean, lumping in HELL BENT (and Kill the Moon....) with some of these others and the Ghost Monument is just plain wrong on several levels.
But, the less said about that episode, the better. What type of people did they ask? They must have been wildly different types of people, cannot explain it any other way.
Anyways, I reckon Ghost Monument, while not perfect, was indeed better than Hell Bent and the thing with the egg in the moon. But as usual, people like me do not get asked in these things... I'd expect they asked people who watched it.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 17, 2018 17:47:39 GMT
This scoring index confuses me no end. From my perspective, it does not make a lot of sense for telling me the quality of the episode (it may not even be used as such). I mean, lumping in HELL BENT (and Kill the Moon....) with some of these others and the Ghost Monument is just plain wrong on several levels.
But, the less said about that episode, the better. What type of people did they ask? They must have been wildly different types of people, cannot explain it any other way.
Anyways, I reckon Ghost Monument, while not perfect, was indeed better than Hell Bent and the thing with the egg in the moon. But as usual, people like me do not get asked in these things... I'd expect they asked people who watched it. Well, these people who watched must have some wild variations in their tastes.... that is what I meant...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 17:52:11 GMT
This had an AI of 82. For those who like to list these things, that's the same as Deep Breath, Last Christmas, The Return of Doctor Mysterio, Husbands of River Song, Boom Town, Aliens of London, Robot of Sherwood, Listen, Kill the Moon, The Girl Who Died, Hell Bent, Before the Flood, The Pyramid at the End of the World, The Zygon Invasion, Extremis and The Lie of the Land. This scoring index confuses me no end. From my perspective, it does not make a lot of sense for telling me the quality of the episode (it may not even be used as such). I mean, lumping in HELL BENT (and Kill the Moon....) with some of these others and the Ghost Monument is just plain wrong on several levels.
But, the less said about that episode, the better. What type of people did they ask? They must have been wildly different types of people, cannot explain it any other way.
Anyways, I reckon Ghost Monument, while not perfect, was indeed better than Hell Bent and the thing with the egg in the moon. But as usual, people like me do not get asked in these things... I think if you consider it 8 out of 10, then that's a pretty fine result. AIs are extraordinary sometimes. Whilst high ratings (which Doctor Who is certainly getting) are good to ensure its future, they and the AIs aren't always indicative of quality. The UK's highest rated shows tend to be talent shows and 'celebrity' game-shows. Easy viewing for the masses. A niche sci-fi show like Doctor Who is doing very well to be competing with that.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 17, 2018 17:56:55 GMT
I think if you consider it 8 out of 10, then that's a pretty fine result. AIs are extraordinary sometimes. Whilst high ratings (which Doctor Who is certainly getting) are good to ensure its future, they and the AIs aren't always indicative of quality. The UK's highest rated shows tend to be talent shows and 'celebrity' game-shows. Easy viewing for the masses. A niche sci-fi show like Doctor Who is doing very well to be competing with that. Yeah, I know, same here. There is a reason I do not have a TV anymore or even feel the need for one...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 18:03:46 GMT
I think if you consider it 8 out of 10, then that's a pretty fine result. AIs are extraordinary sometimes. Whilst high ratings (which Doctor Who is certainly getting) are good to ensure its future, they and the AIs aren't always indicative of quality. The UK's highest rated shows tend to be talent shows and 'celebrity' game-shows. Easy viewing for the masses. A niche sci-fi show like Doctor Who is doing very well to be competing with that. Yeah, I know, same here. There is a reason I do not have a TV anymore or even feel the need for one... Also, higher ratings indicate lower AIs. I think most would prefer ratings of over 7 million overnights and an AI of 82 than an AI of 90, with ratings of 4 million. It's all good!
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Post by thethirddoctor on Oct 17, 2018 18:04:42 GMT
I'd expect they asked people who watched it. Well, these people who watched must have some wild variations in their tastes.... that is what I meant... We can't have everyone enjoying the same episode. I thought Heaven Sent was garbage. Others thought different.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Oct 17, 2018 18:06:45 GMT
Yeah, I know, same here. There is a reason I do not have a TV anymore or even feel the need for one... Also, higher ratings indicate lower AIs. I think most would prefer ratings of over 7 million overnights and an AI of 82 than an AI of 90, with ratings of 4 million. It's all good! I've always said that ratings and AI were meaningless.
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