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Post by tuigirl on Oct 29, 2018 19:07:37 GMT
Yay, go Team Tardis! I have a confession to make- I actually like spiders. As soon as I have some more space, I might get a spider pet. Yes, I know I am weird. Anyways, I enjoyed this, but maybe not as much as the first episode and Rosa. I love the character development and the background of the family drama and the fight with grief. The companions are shown as real life people with real life problems, which really makes a refreshing change from the likes of Donna, Amy, Clara and even Charley who could decide the fate of the universe. Still liking the new Tardis, although they could put a little bit more light in there ("atmospheric lighting nonsense" and all that) because it is a bit gloomy in my opinion. If you squint a bit you could almost think the Doctor is a troglodyte and lives in a crystal cave or something. I think my favorite scene was the last one with the founding of Team Tardis- I nearly started tearing up again with that!
I also have to agree with the people on this thread critizising the treatment of the spiders and the abrupt ending. Surely a quick death is preferable to slow suffocation/ starvation? And we never hear the actual solution of the city wide problem- were all the other spiders poisoned? Euthanised? What happened to the waste dump? Maybe it was like in the Green Death and they called in UNIT to clean up? We do not know, it just somehow... ends. That left me a bit unsatisfied. Also, I agree, the moralizing was done better in the Green Death, and the basic plot is basically the same, maybe minus the Doctor in drag and UNIT blowing stuff up.
As for the Doctor- everybody keeps on saying she is like a mix of 10 and 11.... I somehow do not really get 10 from her at all. She even reminds me a bit of early 8. I like her.
All in all, a good episode, but still nothing that I would say blew me away.
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Post by veryfactualdalek on Oct 29, 2018 19:11:22 GMT
6.43m so we are up on last week it seems. I’d assume it would be because of Rosa
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Post by veryfactualdalek on Oct 29, 2018 19:15:34 GMT
I had only one sticking point with the episode really. Yaz goes to pick up her mum, they meet in the hotel and are then accosted by an armed bodyguard and the owner. 1) no private bodyguard can carry a handgun for any reason in England, it's simply illegal, and 2) however probationary Yaz is still the police so she should have done something about this, even if it's calling her boss. She didn’t even say “that’s illegal” or anything it’s also (I think) illegal just out right fire someone if it’s not something huge you have to let them go
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Post by veryfactualdalek on Oct 29, 2018 19:16:38 GMT
I had only one sticking point with the episode really. Yaz goes to pick up her mum, they meet in the hotel and are then accosted by an armed bodyguard and the owner. 1) no private bodyguard can carry a handgun for any reason in England, it's simply illegal, and 2) however probationary Yaz is still the police so she should have done something about this, even if it's calling her boss. Thinking on it, it kind of feels like this episode may have started with less companions in mind or just a different cast of characters. Seriously what was with that ending, it felt like it just cut after the spider is shot. It would have been fine if the doctor said “I called UNIT, they are dealing with it(and I hope Science lady enjoys her promotion)” or something along those lines
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Post by veryfactualdalek on Oct 29, 2018 19:17:48 GMT
I had only one sticking point with the episode really. Yaz goes to pick up her mum, they meet in the hotel and are then accosted by an armed bodyguard and the owner. 1) no private bodyguard can carry a handgun for any reason in England, it's simply illegal, and 2) however probationary Yaz is still the police so she should have done something about this, even if it's calling her boss. The scene seemed like it was leading to a “Yaz is a police officer so now not-Trump is in trouble” moment but it just never came. It felt very odd. We didn’t even get a line from the news on the tv or a paper or a radio about how his empire has fallen due to the truth coming out
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 29, 2018 19:35:38 GMT
Thinking on it, it kind of feels like this episode may have started with less companions in mind or just a different cast of characters. Seriously what was with that ending, it felt like it just cut after the spider is shot. It would have been fine if the doctor said “I called UNIT, they are dealing with it(and I hope Science lady enjoys her promotion)” or something along those lines I think one of the two following happened:
1) This was originally going to be Tim Price's story, when he was working on the show. For whatever reason, it feel through at a late stage, and Chris rushed out Arachnids to replace it, hence why it wasn't as polsihed as the first three. A scenario not unlike what he had dealt with as a writer under RTD and Moffat.
or
2) Like with clarificaiton on the 'planning' in Rosa, maybe there's a scene with that and it got cut in editing for time. Considering Sallie's background is kids drama and soaps, where efficiency and entertainment value are prioritized over finer details (not for bad reasons: just having to turn around lots of material with little time and money), she took that route.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Oct 29, 2018 19:38:39 GMT
I had only one sticking point with the episode really. Yaz goes to pick up her mum, they meet in the hotel and are then accosted by an armed bodyguard and the owner. 1) no private bodyguard can carry a handgun for any reason in England, it's simply illegal, and 2) however probationary Yaz is still the police so she should have done something about this, even if it's calling her boss. She didn’t even say “that’s illegal” or anything it’s also (I think) illegal just out right fire someone if it’s not something huge you have to let them go It is. Though you could blame the difference in US labour laws and him being ignorant of UK labour laws.
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 29, 2018 22:22:36 GMT
I can see more of how people are comparing Whittaker's performance to Tennant's and Smith's, there's absolutely overlap, some of her quips in this episode seemed ripped right from their series. But she has so much less swagger than them that I do think there's a seriously distinct personality in evidence here, and that lack of ego is making her Doctor leap ahead in my estimation; she may develop into one of my favourites if she continues to show the wit and energy 10 and 11 had combined with a proper sense of humility and grounded empathy that, to my knowledge, no Doctor has ever shown (5 by Davison maybe comes closest?). She's not the "Oncoming Storm" or the "Time Lord Victorious", and I love that more than I can describe! ^This!
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Post by mrperson on Oct 29, 2018 23:28:22 GMT
Ehhh.. things are looking up even though I didn't think much of this one. On the one hand, it was a relatively straight-forward Scary Monster episode - I've had enough of those - but on the other hand, it didn't have anything that made me cringe. I just don't care about monster flicks, even if well-done (though I recall loving Arachnaphobia as a kid). I suppose we got more character exposition and made explicit the companion-not-accidental-hostage thing. But the main thing is that even if it did the least for me for 13's episodes thus far, it was still a lot better than the ones I dislike from the last X years. I'm glad it wasn't the "toxic stuff made them huge".
As always, I'm intrigued by the various reactions. I'd say about a 6.2/10, ish. I'll give it a 3.
___________________ A nitpick: They correctly stated at the end that the mother was too big to breath. The problem is that that would kick in after about 12" legspan, hence, that's the general limit (Goliath Bird Eating spiders, though there is one related to daddy long legs that gets a little bigger it is also much less bulky). So, this would have capped out at still-huge spiders, but not monster-sized ones. (Edit in: in fact, it is a seemingly correct theory that the higher oxygen levels tens/hundreds of millions of years ago explain the larger size of the early insects/etc). I suppose you could say I'm nitpicking because they talked about experiments on spiders generally. But they didn't talk about this and anyway, if you reworked its biology such that it could survive at anything beyond 12" or 13" max, it wouldn't be a "spider" anymore.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Oct 29, 2018 23:44:15 GMT
Ehhh.. things are looking up even though I didn't think much of this one. On the one hand, it was a relatively straight-forward Scary Monster episode - I've had enough of those - but on the other hand, it didn't have anything that made me cringe. I just don't care about monster flicks, even if well-done (though I recall loving Arachnaphobia as a kid). I suppose we got more character exposition and made explicit the companion-not-accidental-hostage thing. But the main thing is that even if it did the least for me for 13's episodes thus far, it was still a lot better than the ones I dislike from the last X years. I'm glad it wasn't the "toxic stuff made them huge".
As always, I'm intrigued by the various reactions. I'd say about a 6.2/10, ish. I'll give it a 3.
___________________ A nitpick: They correctly stated at the end that the mother was too big to die. The problem is that that would kick in after about 12" legspan, hence, that's the general limit (Goliath Bird Eating spiders, though there is one related to daddy long legs that gets a little bigger it is also much less bulky). So, this would have capped out at still-huge spiders, but not monster-sized ones. I suppose you could say I'm nitpicking because they talked about experiments on spiders generally. But they didn't talk about this and anyway, if you reworked its biology such that it could survive at anything beyond 12" or 13" max, it wouldn't be a "spider" anymore. Would it still be an arachnid though?
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Post by mrperson on Oct 29, 2018 23:46:35 GMT
Still don't understand the Doctor's aversion to guns. Why is locking spiders in a room to supposedly starve to death better than shooting them. I meant to say that but forgot. Exactly.
Look, if I really had a one-time choice I couldn't reverse through personal action between being shot and starving to death, I know what I'd choose and I know that it isn't what the Doctor would apparently choose for me.
Relatedly, it was a spider. Yes, the Doctor is mad even about non-sentient creatures being pointlessly killed but big or not, this thing has a terribly unsophisticated neural structure.
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Post by mrperson on Oct 29, 2018 23:46:48 GMT
Ehhh.. things are looking up even though I didn't think much of this one. On the one hand, it was a relatively straight-forward Scary Monster episode - I've had enough of those - but on the other hand, it didn't have anything that made me cringe. I just don't care about monster flicks, even if well-done (though I recall loving Arachnaphobia as a kid). I suppose we got more character exposition and made explicit the companion-not-accidental-hostage thing. But the main thing is that even if it did the least for me for 13's episodes thus far, it was still a lot better than the ones I dislike from the last X years. I'm glad it wasn't the "toxic stuff made them huge".
As always, I'm intrigued by the various reactions. I'd say about a 6.2/10, ish. I'll give it a 3.
___________________ A nitpick: They correctly stated at the end that the mother was too big to die. The problem is that that would kick in after about 12" legspan, hence, that's the general limit (Goliath Bird Eating spiders, though there is one related to daddy long legs that gets a little bigger it is also much less bulky). So, this would have capped out at still-huge spiders, but not monster-sized ones. I suppose you could say I'm nitpicking because they talked about experiments on spiders generally. But they didn't talk about this and anyway, if you reworked its biology such that it could survive at anything beyond 12" or 13" max, it wouldn't be a "spider" anymore. Would it still be an arachnid though? Touche
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Oct 30, 2018 0:07:33 GMT
Would it still be an arachnid though? Touche Not a poking point, I'm not au fait with arachnids/spiders etc, just asking because you seem to have knowledge of the subject.
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Post by mrperson on Oct 30, 2018 0:28:45 GMT
Not a poking point, I'm not au fait with arachnids/spiders etc, just asking because you seem to have knowledge of the subject. Oh no worries. I wasn't suggesting it was anything like that. I think you're very likely right, that's all, and I always appreciate when someone points out a flub. Or I thought I was mistaken, but now I'm not sure.
Arachnids just about always have eight legs, at least as adults. I'm not entirely sure what the rest of the qualifications are, since that likely has to do with everything above them in the classification tree.
I'm certainly no expert, but a classification tree wouldn't be any good if the increasingly more general traits in the line didn't apply to the lower critters. So on the other hand, perhaps the physiology would rule it out. It'd have to have a very different system for oxygen absorption/transport, which might be inconsistent with what's above it. Therefore, if it managed to survive to that massive size, perhaps it wasn't an arachnid despite the eight legs.
Could call it "eight legs", then. But then it didn't have the electric shock ability. Hrmm...
But I'm no biologist or anything like it, so this is all vaguely-educated guesstimation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 1:01:16 GMT
I'm starting to think there's something wrong with the way I watch Doctor Who. The more I read comments here the more I realise that I don't bring my critical eyes, and simply get swept along by the adventure. When the spider moved under the bed I jumped, when Ryan was doing shadow puppet spiders I laughed, when the spider was shot I gasped, when the companions decided to become #teamtardis I felt all warm inside. I really liked Yaz's family and I wasn't fussed about the 'spiders in the panic room' ending. I may not be a good judge of quality, but I'm always happy to tune in and enjoy it. 5 stars again. Probably the best way to watch Doctor Who I reckon, which has been full of huge plot holes and bits that don't make sense since it started. The blob climbing the stairs in Fang Rock, which took about an hour, when it could have retained it's 'ridiculous human form' and saved itself 58 minutes springs to mind. If you just enjoy it for what it is, who gives a monkey's? " When I get to the top of these stairs, by the Host, there will be a reckoning!"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 8:08:14 GMT
Robertson i think will be a recurring character who’ll be a pain in the Doctor’s arse, i can forsee a episode were in the near future he’s become president & caused chaos which the Doctor & companions will have to investigate. My immediate thought when they made clear his sole motivation was that he's anti-Trump was, "Oh, so he's the hero now". So I'm excited to see where the show goes when the two protagonists square off against each other in a battle of can't/must? (I say this in jest)
Like many others, I loved Graham's scenes in his home, mourning his wife. I also love how he - in a very respectful way - asked Ryan not to join him, despite how he's clamoured for Ryan's approval in the last three episodes. It reminded me of my own life (I lost my father eighteen months ago and often wish my extended family would keep their noses out of my mourning) but also showed how their relationship is deepening organically - Graham still wants Ryan in his life, but feels more secure in their relationship that he can request his privacy be respected for something they both know is deeply personal and intimate. Episode by episode we're seeing them bond, and that little moment in this episode of Graham feeling secure in saying "no" was a fantastic, organic representation of how they're coming together.
I also related to Graham wanting to use travel as part of his mourning process; two months after my father's death I took a job in Bangladesh and it was an intense experience. Didn't fully do the trick for my mourning but I was glad to have the adventure to distract me. God, how I wish the Doctor had swooped in to take me off while I mourned - still am mourning, actually, still wish I had the TARDIS to chase away my tears And if the Doctor happens to have the smile of Jodie Whittaker while helping me run away from my demons, hey, that wouldn't be awful
I can see more of how people are comparing Whittaker's performance to Tennant's and Smith's, there's absolutely overlap, some of her quips in this episode seemed ripped right from their series. But she has so much less swagger than them that I do think there's a seriously distinct personality in evidence here, and that lack of ego is making her Doctor leap ahead in my estimation; she may develop into one of my favourites if she continues to show the wit and energy 10 and 11 had combined with a proper sense of humility and grounded empathy that, to my knowledge, no Doctor has ever shown (5 by Davison maybe comes closest?). She's not the "Oncoming Storm" or the "Time Lord Victorious", and I love that more than I can describe!
I just hope the series has better and better villains going forwards. I felt the alien bounty-hunter with the teeth in his cheeks was underwhelming, I felt the flying psychic rags were laiughable, and the time-travelling white-supremacist was underdeveloped and logistically nonsensical. The spiders this week were a huge improvement and Noth's character was fun, albeit one-dimensional, so I hope that the rest of the series will continue this improvement and give us proper adversaries to test 13 and make her worthy of our fandom!
Something i noticed about Jodies incarnation of the Doctor is she's similar to Columbo, she doesn't miss a trick & notices things nobody else picks upon which i love. Sorry to hear about your fathers passing, i can relate to how you felt because when my nan died in 1995 during the hiatus period of the show it was the UK Gold omnibus repeats of Doctor Who that got me threw one of the worst time's of my life, due to the shock of my nans passing i lost 4 stone in 3 months & because so ill with shock i hadn't the energy some days to get out of bed. Doctor Who is a amazing show & a great pick me up during bad times, it's helping distract me from the loss of my uncle who died on Saturday.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 30, 2018 8:17:17 GMT
Not a poking point, I'm not au fait with arachnids/spiders etc, just asking because you seem to have knowledge of the subject. Oh no worries. I wasn't suggesting it was anything like that. I think you're very likely right, that's all, and I always appreciate when someone points out a flub. Or I thought I was mistaken, but now I'm not sure.
Arachnids just about always have eight legs, at least as adults. I'm not entirely sure what the rest of the qualifications are, since that likely has to do with everything above them in the classification tree.
I'm certainly no expert, but a classification tree wouldn't be any good if the increasingly more general traits in the line didn't apply to the lower critters. So on the other hand, perhaps the physiology would rule it out. It'd have to have a very different system for oxygen absorption/transport, which might be inconsistent with what's above it. Therefore, if it managed to survive to that massive size, perhaps it wasn't an arachnid despite the eight legs.
Could call it "eight legs", then. But then it didn't have the electric shock ability. Hrmm...
But I'm no biologist or anything like it, so this is all vaguely-educated guesstimation.
Biologist chiming in.
Well versed guesstimation. I could not have done it any better!
To be honest, I have given up on pointing out all the biological mistakes in Sci-Fi, crime and fantasy books/ TV/films. It would just never end. Big example from yesterday, even bigger than the Doctor Who spider- I listened to some of the Big Finish Sherlock Holmes and The speckled Band was a freebie. The speckled band must be my most hated Sherlock Holmes story (and I LOVE Sherlock Holmes). Why? Because it is sooooo badly researched and has a cringeworthy mistake in it that renders the whole story completely moot (for a biologist at least). Even in a tender age of 10 when I first read this story, my insides were playing up and I thought- wait a second. Reason? Snakes are DEAF. Deaf. Cannot hear. This has been known for more than 200 years so Conan Doyle would have been able to find out about it if he so chose. All these snake whisperers and flute players in India with their cobras- the cobras follow the instrument, they do not dance to the tune.
But as I said, most of the time I just blend these things out, otherwise I would not be able to enjoy most entertainment offerings. I just accept that there is some unknown (if made up and non sensical) scientific mumbo- jumbo going on and somehow, with some fantasy magic- voila- giant spider. Or dinosaur. Or strange mutation that just disappears when a magic wand gets waved over.
Let's not frustrate ourselves and lean back and suspend disbelief.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 9:23:41 GMT
Oh no worries. I wasn't suggesting it was anything like that. I think you're very likely right, that's all, and I always appreciate when someone points out a flub. Or I thought I was mistaken, but now I'm not sure.
Arachnids just about always have eight legs, at least as adults. I'm not entirely sure what the rest of the qualifications are, since that likely has to do with everything above them in the classification tree.
I'm certainly no expert, but a classification tree wouldn't be any good if the increasingly more general traits in the line didn't apply to the lower critters. So on the other hand, perhaps the physiology would rule it out. It'd have to have a very different system for oxygen absorption/transport, which might be inconsistent with what's above it. Therefore, if it managed to survive to that massive size, perhaps it wasn't an arachnid despite the eight legs.
Could call it "eight legs", then. But then it didn't have the electric shock ability. Hrmm...
But I'm no biologist or anything like it, so this is all vaguely-educated guesstimation.
Biologist chiming in.
Well versed guesstimation. I could not have done it any better!
To be honest, I have given up on pointing out all the biological mistakes in Sci-Fi, crime and fantasy books/ TV/films. It would just never end. Big example from yesterday, even bigger than the Doctor Who spider- I listened to some of the Big Finish Sherlock Holmes and The speckled Band was a freebie. The speckled band must be my most hated Sherlock Holmes story (and I LOVE Sherlock Holmes). Why? Because it is sooooo badly researched and has a cringeworthy mistake in it that renders the whole story completely moot (for a biologist at least). Even in a tender age of 10 when I first read this story, my insides were playing up and I thought- wait a second. Reason? Snakes are DEAF. Deaf. Cannot hear. This has been known for more than 200 years so Conan Doyle would have been able to find out about it if he so chose. All these snake whisperers and flute players in India with their cobras- the cobras follow the instrument, they do not dance to the tune.
But as I said, most of the time I just blend these things out, otherwise I would not be able to enjoy most entertainment offerings. I just accept that there is some unknown (if made up and non sensical) scientific mumbo- jumbo going on and somehow, with some fantasy magic- voila- giant spider. Or dinosaur. Or strange mutation that just disappears when a magic wand gets waved over.
Let's not frustrate ourselves and lean back and suspend disbelief.
Oh the hell of having insider knowledge 😂
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Post by theotherjosh on Oct 30, 2018 12:57:15 GMT
I happen to like spiders, so I was inclined to enjoy this episode. Didn’t reach as high as Rosa, but I think it did a better job of meeting the more modest goals it had set for itself. It’s very much a by-the-numbers Base Under Siege story, but it was interesting to see what Chinball would do with the formula. On one hand, I liked the Third Doctor feel of the story, with the spiders as misunderstood victims. On the other, the baddie (Noth) was again very weak.
Jade the scientist felt a bit superfluous and her role providing exposition could have been filled by the Doctor , but as the actor’s name is Tanya Fear, I’m willing to give her a pass.
Ryan and Yaz were great from their very introduction. Graham took a little longer, but he gets so much better with each episode. Jodie is extremely strong as the Doctor, except for, as many other people here have already noted, the sermonizing about weapons. I enjoy it when the Doctor has to improvise and I particularly liked her use of vinegar in the apartment. The Doctor seems happy to be herself, and that’s so nice to see.
It ended very abruptly. I was watching it with my family and when Mr. Big shot the spider and the episode went directly to the denouement, we all looked at each and asked, “Is it over?”
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Post by number13 on Oct 30, 2018 14:31:46 GMT
80% excellent for me, a base-under-siege with uber-scary monsters (I'm not normally afraid of spiders but holy cow those were big!) and as a total contrast, the very touching scenes of Graham's grief were beautifully written and performed.
I wasn't previously keen on the 'companion family background' style of some New Who but this series is getting it just right imo; I cared about Graham and Grace, want to know what dark alien secret (there has to be one right?, it's DW!) is lurking around Ryan's dad and I enjoyed meeting Yas's family and thought they were worked into the story perfectly. It never felt like 'oh these are Yas's family let's have an adventure'; the story came from them and drew in the Doctor.
This was the week I stopped thinking of Jodie as 'the new Doctor' and just as 'The Doctor' - right around the moment she stuck her head into the pit left by the mother-of-all-spiders erupting through the bathtub! I was 'no Doctor don't do it'
I thought it all looked fabulous again, loved the 'I can't believe they're going towards that music' line from Graham (speaks for most us my age about 'Grime' I think!) and I liked the learn-a-fact moments: spiders taste through their feet (new fact for me) and arthropods over a certain size would naturally suffocate (good fact.) And I still can't quite believe they showed those 'dinnertime' scenes with Kevin-the-bodyguard and THE spider - gruesome or what?! (Good stuff, DW is supposed to often be scary and a bit dark.)
On the 20% downside, the ending was abrupt, the bad guy was (for the second week running) little more than a stock Nasty American Villain and the moment he revealed that handgun, under British law Yas (a serving copper) should have been arranging him a guaranteed long stay as "a guest of Her Majesty". I thought the efforts to make the spiders appear as victims were ridiculous. Yes, they grew large because of human greed and incompetence, but spiders are ancient and perfectly evolved hunters; they 'don't hunt humans' (as the Doctor said) only because it's all a matter of scale - most British spiders are small and eat insects, but in the east of England we have one species which is large enough to hunt fish, and does. If it was larger still, it would try to eat the fishermen too...
And I would have liked to see the Doctor do her 'Ghostbusters' moment with the backpack tank of essential oils!
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