bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Oct 31, 2018 15:13:12 GMT
Just one thing I forgot to mention. The universal frowning that greets Ryan's job 'in a warehouse' is at-odds with the 'all inclusive' nature of the show at the moment. Maybe this will be mentioned more in the future, but ... well, we all have a living to earn! Does anyone else actually react to it? I thought it was just that he hates it. I don't remember anyone else agreeing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 15:29:27 GMT
Just one thing I forgot to mention. The universal frowning that greets Ryan's job 'in a warehouse' is at-odds with the 'all inclusive' nature of the show at the moment. Maybe this will be mentioned more in the future, but ... well, we all have a living to earn! Does anyone else actually react to it? I thought it was just that he hates it. I don't remember anyone else agreeing. There was a conversation between Ryan and Yaz in the first story where he asks what she does for a living, and being impressed at the reply. When asked what his job was, Ryan mentions working in a warehouse, and they both sigh and give a kind of 'oh well' reaction. It's no big thing, but seems a little inconsistent with the current wave of inclusive-ness.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 31, 2018 16:22:34 GMT
Does anyone else actually react to it? I thought it was just that he hates it. I don't remember anyone else agreeing. There was a conversation between Ryan and Yaz in the first story where he asks what she does for a living, and being impressed at the reply. When asked what his job was, Ryan mentions working in a warehouse, and they both sigh and give a kind of 'oh well' reaction. It's no big thing, but seems a little inconsistent with the current wave of inclusive-ness. I feel like I am missing something here- what exactly is wrong with Ryan working in a warehouse? I have done some sh*tty jobs in my life, and while I was not impressed by them and they are well below my academic education, one has to eat. So Ryan might actually be very clever, just happens this is the only job he can get right now (I can very well relate) and this is all part of his characterization as a normal bloke with normal problems. Why is that not inclusive?
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Post by kinghumble on Oct 31, 2018 16:28:07 GMT
I guess the feeling is it's judging the work... Which is all a matter of perspective?
I've also done menial work in the past (and I'm pretty cognizant that the economy could always turn and send me right back there) and I didn't feel the references to his job were insulting in any way - but I can imagine a member of the audience who feels trapped by that work might be more sensitive to the descriptions of it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 16:38:05 GMT
There was a conversation between Ryan and Yaz in the first story where he asks what she does for a living, and being impressed at the reply. When asked what his job was, Ryan mentions working in a warehouse, and they both sigh and give a kind of 'oh well' reaction. It's no big thing, but seems a little inconsistent with the current wave of inclusive-ness. I feel like I am missing something here- what exactly is wrong with Ryan working in a warehouse? I have done some sh*tty jobs in my life, and while I was not impressed by them and they are well below my academic education, one has to eat. So Ryan might actually be very clever, just happens this is the only job he can get right now (I can very well relate) and this is all part of his characterization as a normal bloke with normal problems. Why is that not inclusive?
That is precisely my point. This show is making moves to include everyone, so why are the characters looking down their noses at warehouse workers? I work in a warehouse. Perhaps that's why the line stuck with me. As I said previously, it isn't a big thing. But it seems a little judgemental.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 31, 2018 16:49:13 GMT
Ah, thank you, now I am getting it. I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. Now that you have pointed out the judgmental side, I can kind of see it... although, for me, it did not really come across as judgemental in the episodes. But maybe I am just too nice a person for not noticing (after all, I am the one who leaves chocolades at Easter and Christmas for the cleaners at work because my grandma used to work as a cleaner in a student hall and she always was very happy when the students gave her something, so I think I should treat them as I would treat my grandma. Some collegues think I am weird, but I was born weird, I am used to it by now).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 17:10:01 GMT
Ah, thank you, now I am getting it. I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. Now that you have pointed out the judgmental side, I can kind of see it... although, for me, it did not really come across as judgemental in the episodes. But maybe I am just too nice a person for not noticing (after all, I am the one who leaves chocolades at Easter and Christmas for the cleaners at work because my grandma used to work as a cleaner in a student hall and she always was very happy when the students gave her something, so I think I should treat them as I would treat my grandma. Some collegues think I am weird, but I was born weird, I am used to it by now). The world needs weirdness of the kind variety
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Oct 31, 2018 18:13:28 GMT
Ah, thank you, now I am getting it. I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. Now that you have pointed out the judgmental side, I can kind of see it... although, for me, it did not really come across as judgemental in the episodes. But maybe I am just too nice a person for not noticing (after all, I am the one who leaves chocolades at Easter and Christmas for the cleaners at work because my grandma used to work as a cleaner in a student hall and she always was very happy when the students gave her something, so I think I should treat them as I would treat my grandma. Some collegues think I am weird, but I was born weird, I am used to it by now). As Hunter S. Thompson used to say, When the going gets weird, the weird get going.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 1, 2018 13:05:23 GMT
I think they missed a trick with playing a song to bring in the Spiders, by not Playing Sheffield's own Def Leppard
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Post by Ela on Nov 1, 2018 15:27:07 GMT
This was an interesting episode. I haven't commented about it yet cause I have mixed feelings about it. The whole spider plot was a little odd and the guy who was building the hotel was a bit one-dimensional, I thought (perhaps intentionally).
Chibnall seems to be being a bit more political in bent in the episodes so far, and I don't have a problem with that at all, though I think some people might.
There were aspects I loved. (I don't care what anyone says, I love "Team TARDIS" and the "who put you in charge" moments.)
Jodie is definitely the Doctor to me and enjoying watching her and her TARDIS team grow together.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 18:49:43 GMT
I think they missed a trick with playing a song to bring in the Spiders, by not Playing Sheffield's own Def Leppard No. No they didn't.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 1, 2018 20:56:54 GMT
I think they missed a trick with playing a song to bring in the Spiders, by not Playing Sheffield's own Def Leppard No. No they didn't.
I much prefer Deaf Shepherd, myself.
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Post by fingersmash on Nov 1, 2018 22:24:21 GMT
I think they missed a trick with playing a song to bring in the Spiders, by not Playing Sheffield's own Def Leppard I don't know, I got a lot of laughter over the ridiculousness of a spider scuttling around while Stormzy played in the background.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 2, 2018 12:27:59 GMT
I think they missed a trick with playing a song to bring in the Spiders, by not Playing Sheffield's own Def Leppard I don't know, I got a lot of laughter over the ridiculousness of a spider scuttling around while Stormzy played in the background. Same it was unexpected. It did work
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Post by mrperson on Nov 2, 2018 16:13:56 GMT
Ah, thank you, now I am getting it. I was looking at it from the wrong perspective. Now that you have pointed out the judgmental side, I can kind of see it... although, for me, it did not really come across as judgemental in the episodes. But maybe I am just too nice a person for not noticing (after all, I am the one who leaves chocolades at Easter and Christmas for the cleaners at work because my grandma used to work as a cleaner in a student hall and she always was very happy when the students gave her something, so I think I should treat them as I would treat my grandma. Some collegues think I am weird, but I was born weird, I am used to it by now). As Hunter S. Thompson used to say, When the going gets weird, the weird get going."When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro", I believe.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 2, 2018 19:04:39 GMT
As Hunter S. Thompson used to say, When the going gets weird, the weird get going."When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro", I believe. Both are accurate. I heard him say the version I quoted at a reading he gave at Tulane University 30 plus years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 18:38:24 GMT
I don't think this will be a popular opinion but on Jodie's Doctor....I'm not sure I know what her character is. I know we're only 4 weeks in but she's not got a trait or a streak that defines her or makes her stand out from a rather generic New Who template. Much of the performance - and crucially the writing - is very Tennant and Smith, with a bit of Eccleston (especially that "imagine me with a flat..." scene). I'd like to have her given more of a unique persona as the show goes along. It's a bit like Star Wars Ep VII where they made it incredibly safe just to assure the fans that they "got" Star Wars, it feels like Jodie is being written very safely to get fans used to the change in Doctor. The stories aren't being written too generically but the title character does feel a bit undercooked nearly half way into her maiden year. I should say I like how Jodie plays the part and again it's very early days but based purely on the persona I'm not finding much to separate her from New WHo 101. We knew from all the chat beforehand that Chibnall wanted more of an RTD feel but honestly, hand on heart, is there much Jodie's Doctor has said and done that couldn't be Tennant? I'd like her to really get her own unique take across. I await the shunning.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 3, 2018 18:49:42 GMT
I don't think this will be a popular opinion but on Jodie's Doctor....I'm not sure I know what her character is. I know we're only 4 weeks in but she's not got a trait or a streak that defines her or makes her stand out from a rather generic New Who template. Much of the performance - and crucially the writing - is very Tennant and Smith, with a bit of Eccleston (especially that "imagine me with a flat..." scene). I'd like to have her given more of a unique persona as the show goes along. It's a bit like Star Wars Ep VII where they made it incredibly safe just to assure the fans that they "got" Star Wars, it feels like Jodie is being written very safely to get fans used to the change in Doctor. The stories aren't being written too generically but the title character does feel a bit undercooked nearly half way into her maiden year. I should say I like how Jodie plays the part and again it's very early days but based purely on the persona I'm not finding much to separate her from New WHo 101. We knew from all the chat beforehand that Chibnall wanted more of an RTD feel but honestly, hand on heart, is there much Jodie's Doctor has said and done that couldn't be Tennant? I'd like her to really get her own unique take across. I await the shunning. Oh I don't think that worthy of shunning. A mild tut and stern wag of a finger perhaps, but not a shun.
For me, I think what seperates her is that wholesomeness and unabashed glee for just plain old adventuring: with Ten and Eleven, there was always this element of 'the goofiness and jokes masks a deeper rage and pain, and may not be as sincere as one would think'. With Thirteen, her glee feels completely like her honest reaction to situations: she loves adventuring... because she loves doing it. She's let go of the Time War baggage at last and is able to live in her own skin again, more than her immediate predescessors. There isn't that 'sadness of a clown' underpinning it. Plus, she's a lot less grandstand-y than Ten and Eleven and views herself in much smaller, less messionic terms.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 18:58:34 GMT
I don't think this will be a popular opinion but on Jodie's Doctor....I'm not sure I know what her character is. I know we're only 4 weeks in but she's not got a trait or a streak that defines her or makes her stand out from a rather generic New Who template. Much of the performance - and crucially the writing - is very Tennant and Smith, with a bit of Eccleston (especially that "imagine me with a flat..." scene). I'd like to have her given more of a unique persona as the show goes along. It's a bit like Star Wars Ep VII where they made it incredibly safe just to assure the fans that they "got" Star Wars, it feels like Jodie is being written very safely to get fans used to the change in Doctor. The stories aren't being written too generically but the title character does feel a bit undercooked nearly half way into her maiden year. I should say I like how Jodie plays the part and again it's very early days but based purely on the persona I'm not finding much to separate her from New WHo 101. We knew from all the chat beforehand that Chibnall wanted more of an RTD feel but honestly, hand on heart, is there much Jodie's Doctor has said and done that couldn't be Tennant? I'd like her to really get her own unique take across. I await the shunning. Oh I don't think that worthy of shunning. A mild tut and stern wag of a finger perhaps, but not a shun.
For me, I think what seperates her is that wholesomeness and unabashed glee for just plain old adventuring: with Ten and Eleven, there was always this element of 'the goofiness and jokes masks a deeper rage and pain, and may not be as sincere as one would think'. With Thirteen, her glee feels completely like her honest reaction to situations: she loves adventuring... because she loves doing it. She's let go of the Time War baggage at last and is able to live in her own skin again, more than her immediate predescessors. There isn't that 'sadness of a clown' underpinning it. Plus, she's a lot less grandstand-y than Ten and Eleven and views herself in much smaller, less messionic terms.
Well that’s just it for me- she’s like the previous New Who Doctors but without the quirks, so I just see her as a really generic Doctor. And because of her overtly kind nature and self perception as “just a traveller”, we just end up with a Doctor that doesn’t have a lot of authority, either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 19:11:42 GMT
I don't think this will be a popular opinion but on Jodie's Doctor....I'm not sure I know what her character is. I know we're only 4 weeks in but she's not got a trait or a streak that defines her or makes her stand out from a rather generic New Who template. Much of the performance - and crucially the writing - is very Tennant and Smith, with a bit of Eccleston (especially that "imagine me with a flat..." scene). I'd like to have her given more of a unique persona as the show goes along. It's a bit like Star Wars Ep VII where they made it incredibly safe just to assure the fans that they "got" Star Wars, it feels like Jodie is being written very safely to get fans used to the change in Doctor. The stories aren't being written too generically but the title character does feel a bit undercooked nearly half way into her maiden year. I should say I like how Jodie plays the part and again it's very early days but based purely on the persona I'm not finding much to separate her from New WHo 101. We knew from all the chat beforehand that Chibnall wanted more of an RTD feel but honestly, hand on heart, is there much Jodie's Doctor has said and done that couldn't be Tennant? I'd like her to really get her own unique take across. I await the shunning. Oh I don't think that worthy of shunning. A mild tut and stern wag of a finger perhaps, but not a shun.
For me, I think what seperates her is that wholesomeness and unabashed glee for just plain old adventuring: with Ten and Eleven, there was always this element of 'the goofiness and jokes masks a deeper rage and pain, and may not be as sincere as one would think'. With Thirteen, her glee feels completely like her honest reaction to situations: she loves adventuring... because she loves doing it. She's let go of the Time War baggage at last and is able to live in her own skin again, more than her immediate predescessors. There isn't that 'sadness of a clown' underpinning it. Plus, she's a lot less grandstand-y than Ten and Eleven and views herself in much smaller, less messionic terms.
She's certainly - so far - less likely to monologue and grandstand but the lack of traits isn't a trait itself, is it? I don't think the underpinning rage, the Time War, was as ubiquitous as all that and wasn't always there. Sure, Tennant could be mopey about it but on a standard mid season romp for one it wasn't part of the character at all. The Tennant of New Earth, Unicorn And The Wasp, Shakespeare Code etc is pretty much exactly as you just described Jodie's Doctor. Again - is there much in the last four eps that is something only Jodie's Doctor could do or say? And how much of it couldn't be done word for word with Tennant's Doctor and not seem out of place at all? Not much. It really is, halfway through the season nearly, something that I've picked up on more and more. For such bold casting, it's incredibly safe characterisation. I'd like to see her get things to do that truly define her Doctor. Thus far it kinda feels like the character you'd write before the role was cast and you were writing a generic version of who The Doctor is. She's been written as a bit of a CBBC version of The Doctor. There's nothing wrong with safe for the show's future. It's probably a solid idea to get the not-we back on board. Yet the character doesn't excite me yet. I hope that changes by season end.
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