Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 19:18:41 GMT
Oh I don't think that worthy of shunning. A mild tut and stern wag of a finger perhaps, but not a shun.
For me, I think what seperates her is that wholesomeness and unabashed glee for just plain old adventuring: with Ten and Eleven, there was always this element of 'the goofiness and jokes masks a deeper rage and pain, and may not be as sincere as one would think'. With Thirteen, her glee feels completely like her honest reaction to situations: she loves adventuring... because she loves doing it. She's let go of the Time War baggage at last and is able to live in her own skin again, more than her immediate predescessors. There isn't that 'sadness of a clown' underpinning it. Plus, she's a lot less grandstand-y than Ten and Eleven and views herself in much smaller, less messionic terms.
Well that’s just it for me- she’s like the previous New Who Doctors but without the quirks, so I just see her as a really generic Doctor. And because of her overtly kind nature and self perception as “just a traveller”, we just end up with a Doctor that doesn’t have a lot of authority, either. Yes, exactly. Being a toned down version of what we've already seen doesn't really excite me thus far. Writing her as "likeable" is well and good but it's a bit square at the same time. We're fans though - to the public "it's like it used to be ten years ago" is a good thing since they don't live the stuff like we do. For us the past is almost always the present with rewatches and the like. Not too fussed about a lack of authority though. She, like Troughton as my go-to example, earns that through her actions in the stories rather than her overpowering personality a la Tom or Tennant.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Nov 4, 2018 2:16:05 GMT
I agree with Davy and nucleus (nothing like a consensus view is there? )
Yes, Jodie's Doctor doesn't stand out as an obviously oversize personality (you could say a 'generic' Doctor if you wanted to) but that is a personality choice, in its way.
In classic-era terms (indulge me, I'm over 50 ) I think she's playing the Doctor in a similar way as Peter Davison's Fifth was to Tom's unforgettable Fourth. Some people then said he (Fifth) wasn't an especially exciting Doctor or one who stood out in any way, and after the two vast personas of the Third and Fourth Doctors (and oh boy, before the Sixth!) that might have been true in some ways.
But he was a much more 'human' and relatable Doctor than they were and I liked him and his era even though I'd loved the Tom years and of course Jon Pertwees' magnificently flamboyant Third was and is 'my' Doctor.
Jodie is playing the Doctor as enthusastic, inquisitive, full of the joy of travel and the company of friends and I like it, even though I also liked the sizeable personality of the Capaldi Doctor very much indeed.
If I was to pick out one characteristic that says 'Jodie's Doctor' to me, it's the sudden, brilliant rushes of deductive reasoning, sometimes so fast that as a viewer I feel I can hardly keep up - and why not? The Doctor is an alien genius and has always been like this - except most Doctors kept their thinking to themselves (cue: air of mystery) before revealing the truth to their suitably astonished Companions.
Jodie's Doctor says it as she thinks it, like the scene in 'Rosa' where she almost literally ran rings around Krasko, inspecting him, explaining him, disarming him and warning him off all in the blink of an eye. It had the side-effect of making him look even more of a cardboard character than ever, but that's by the by! She was great doing it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 2:54:38 GMT
I agree with Davy and nucleus (nothing like a consensus view is there? )
Yes, Jodie's Doctor doesn't stand out as an obviously oversize personality (you could say a 'generic' Doctor if you wanted to) but that is a personality choice, in its way.
In classic-era terms (indulge me, I'm over 50 ) I think she's playing the Doctor in a similar way as Peter Davison's Fifth was to Tom's unforgettable Fourth. Some people then said he (Fifth) wasn't an especially exciting Doctor or one who stood out in any way, and after the two vast personas of the Third and Fourth Doctors (and oh boy, before the Sixth!) that might have been true in some ways.
But he was a much more 'human' and relatable Doctor than they were and I liked him and his era even though I'd loved the Tom years and of course Jon Pertwees' magnificently flamboyant Third was and is 'my' Doctor.
Jodie is playing the Doctor as enthusastic, inquisitive, full of the joy of travel and the company of friends and I like it, even though I also liked the sizeable personality of the Capaldi Doctor very much indeed.
If I was to pick out one characteristic that says 'Jodie's Doctor' to me, it's the sudden, brilliant rushes of deductive reasoning, sometimes so fast that as a viewer I feel I can hardly keep up - and why not? The Doctor is an alien genius and has always been like this - except most Doctors kept their thinking to themselves (cue: air of mystery) before revealing the truth to their suitably astonished Companions.
Jodie's Doctor says it as she thinks it, like the scene in 'Rosa' where she almost literally ran rings around Krasko, inspecting him, explaining him, disarming him and warning him off all in the blink of an eye. It had the side-effect of making him look even more of a cardboard character than ever, but that's by the by! She was great doing it.
Mmm, from what I've seen so far, she strikes me very much as an incarnation that really doesn't enjoy sitting on her laurels. Unusual curiosities draw her like a magnet, she's shaping up to be the kind of incarnation that would spend a couple years documenting every species of butterfly in a bit of woodland and deciphering their migration patterns. Why? Ignorance is like an itch she can't scratch, she's curious. People aren't her forte, she'd be happier observing rather than taking part in a conversation. She's much more the scientific observer than her predecessors. She's genuinely excited about the cosmos. Everything feels new to her and she'd love to experience it. The format of the episodes has been very interesting. The Ghost Monument felt like a Terry Nation script from the 60s, Rosa was a near-historical with some cosmetic ties to the Moffat era (Stormcage and the Vortex Manipulator), Arachnids in the UK with its domestic setting and homegrown menace could've been something from the RTD era... I wonder if it's been a deliberate series of touchstones? To get us and this new Doctor acquainted with the new status quo?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 3:00:56 GMT
I agree with Davy and nucleus (nothing like a consensus view is there? )
Yes, Jodie's Doctor doesn't stand out as an obviously oversize personality (you could say a 'generic' Doctor if you wanted to) but that is a personality choice, in its way.
In classic-era terms (indulge me, I'm over 50 ) I think she's playing the Doctor in a similar way as Peter Davison's Fifth was to Tom's unforgettable Fourth. Some people then said he (Fifth) wasn't an especially exciting Doctor or one who stood out in any way, and after the two vast personas of the Third and Fourth Doctors (and oh boy, before the Sixth!) that might have been true in some ways.
But he was a much more 'human' and relatable Doctor than they were and I liked him and his era even though I'd loved the Tom years and of course Jon Pertwees' magnificently flamboyant Third was and is 'my' Doctor.
Jodie is playing the Doctor as enthusastic, inquisitive, full of the joy of travel and the company of friends and I like it, even though I also liked the sizeable personality of the Capaldi Doctor very much indeed.
If I was to pick out one characteristic that says 'Jodie's Doctor' to me, it's the sudden, brilliant rushes of deductive reasoning, sometimes so fast that as a viewer I feel I can hardly keep up - and why not? The Doctor is an alien genius and has always been like this - except most Doctors kept their thinking to themselves (cue: air of mystery) before revealing the truth to their suitably astonished Companions.
Jodie's Doctor says it as she thinks it, like the scene in 'Rosa' where she almost literally ran rings around Krasko, inspecting him, explaining him, disarming him and warning him off all in the blink of an eye. It had the side-effect of making him look even more of a cardboard character than ever, but that's by the by! She was great doing it.
Absolutely. Jodie is doing the best to inject personality into the role but I think it's the writing that's letting her down a bit. For all we joke about my lack of love for Pertwee I truly admire the persona of the Third Doctor. He's unique and you couldn't switch his stories with another Doctor. You wouldn't be able to put Troughton in The Ambassadors Of Death and likewise you couldn't have Pertwee in Talons. He had his personality and character and it was 100% Pertwee. Wheras that scene with Krasko....we can imagine other Doctors doing it pretty much the same way. I could easily see Matt in that scene in particular. On Davison though, I've never found his Doctor bland, though I see why some do. I love the Season 19 dynamic and Davison's Doctor being quietly miffed most of the time is something I really love. He finds the dry comedy in the persona despite JNT and Bidmead trying to get rid of any trace of humour. By Season 21 Davison was much more "Doctorish". Frontios isn't a great story but Davison is stunning in it. In many ways replacing Tom was one of the toughest gigs any actor to play the part has had. Again, I like what Jodie does with what she's given....I just don't think she's given anything particularly meaty or new. These are only fannish reservations though - the casual fans I know are happy to see a fun Doctor again after tuning out for Capaldi (my fave). Jodie acting Tennant-like isn't something that bothers the casuals, they just want some fun adventure and they're getting that. But for fans like us who own it all, have hundreds of DVDs, blurays, books and audios....there's not anything there yet in the characterisation that is really unique and fresh. It's all very safe. Maybe that's Chibnall's vision - the story, the adventure and the family unit in the companions (sorry, "friends") becomes the focus and not so much the title character. It's early days but I'm not getting even a hint of what will make Jodie's Doctor stand out in the baker's dozen of Doctors.
|
|
|
Post by thethirddoctor on Nov 4, 2018 10:57:35 GMT
I agree with Davy and nucleus (nothing like a consensus view is there? )
Yes, Jodie's Doctor doesn't stand out as an obviously oversize personality (you could say a 'generic' Doctor if you wanted to) but that is a personality choice, in its way.
In classic-era terms (indulge me, I'm over 50 ) I think she's playing the Doctor in a similar way as Peter Davison's Fifth was to Tom's unforgettable Fourth. Some people then said he (Fifth) wasn't an especially exciting Doctor or one who stood out in any way, and after the two vast personas of the Third and Fourth Doctors (and oh boy, before the Sixth!) that might have been true in some ways.
But he was a much more 'human' and relatable Doctor than they were and I liked him and his era even though I'd loved the Tom years and of course Jon Pertwees' magnificently flamboyant Third was and is 'my' Doctor.
Jodie is playing the Doctor as enthusastic, inquisitive, full of the joy of travel and the company of friends and I like it, even though I also liked the sizeable personality of the Capaldi Doctor very much indeed.
If I was to pick out one characteristic that says 'Jodie's Doctor' to me, it's the sudden, brilliant rushes of deductive reasoning, sometimes so fast that as a viewer I feel I can hardly keep up - and why not? The Doctor is an alien genius and has always been like this - except most Doctors kept their thinking to themselves (cue: air of mystery) before revealing the truth to their suitably astonished Companions.
Jodie's Doctor says it as she thinks it, like the scene in 'Rosa' where she almost literally ran rings around Krasko, inspecting him, explaining him, disarming him and warning him off all in the blink of an eye. It had the side-effect of making him look even more of a cardboard character than ever, but that's by the by! She was great doing it.
Absolutely. Jodie is doing the best to inject personality into the role but I think it's the writing that's letting her down a bit. For all we joke about my lack of love for Pertwee I truly admire the persona of the Third Doctor. He's unique and you couldn't switch his stories with another Doctor. You wouldn't be able to put Troughton in The Ambassadors Of Death and likewise you couldn't have Pertwee in Talons. He had his personality and character and it was 100% Pertwee. Wheras that scene with Krasko....we can imagine other Doctors doing it pretty much the same way. I could easily see Matt in that scene in particular. On Davison though, I've never found his Doctor bland, though I see why some do. I love the Season 19 dynamic and Davison's Doctor being quietly miffed most of the time is something I really love. He finds the dry comedy in the persona despite JNT and Bidmead trying to get rid of any trace of humour. By Season 21 Davison was much more "Doctorish". Frontios isn't a great story but Davison is stunning in it. In many ways replacing Tom was one of the toughest gigs any actor to play the part has had. Again, I like what Jodie does with what she's given....I just don't think she's given anything particularly meaty or new. These are only fannish reservations though - the casual fans I know are happy to see a fun Doctor again after tuning out for Capaldi (my fave). Jodie acting Tennant-like isn't something that bothers the casuals, they just want some fun adventure and they're getting that. But for fans like us who own it all, have hundreds of DVDs, blurays, books and audios....there's not anything there yet in the characterisation that is really unique and fresh. It's all very safe. Maybe that's Chibnall's vision - the story, the adventure and the family unit in the companions (sorry, "friends") becomes the focus and not so much the title character. It's early days but I'm not getting even a hint of what will make Jodie's Doctor stand out in the baker's dozen of Doctors. What? Where?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 12:17:21 GMT
I think they missed a trick with playing a song to bring in the Spiders, by not Playing Sheffield's own Def Leppard I don't know, I got a lot of laughter over the ridiculousness of a spider scuttling around while Stormzy played in the background. & the target audience probably wouldn't have a clue who Def Leppard were.
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Nov 4, 2018 21:10:42 GMT
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro", I believe. Both are accurate. I heard him say the version I quoted at a reading he gave at Tulane University 30 plus years ago.
Ah, lucky you. I've been working my way through the various collections of articles he wrote. For all the insanity, I find him incredibly insightful. He's also got quite the way with words....
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Nov 4, 2018 21:30:06 GMT
Speaking of characterizations......I do hope the "I say dude now" bit does not indicate a continued focus on catch-phrases. I never really liked that about any of the new who. Why does someone need a catch phrase? Just because Tom Baker had hilarious timing/delivery with his jelly baby bit?
Fantastic! Allons-Y! Bowties are cool! Stupid face (companion)! Etc. Enough....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 23:56:29 GMT
Speaking of characterizations......I do hope the "I say dude now" bit does not indicate a continued focus on catch-phrases. I never really liked that about any of the new who. Why does someone need a catch phrase? Just because Tom Baker had hilarious timing/delivery with his jelly baby bit?
Fantastic! Allons-Y! Bowties are cool! Stupid face (companion)! Etc. Enough....
Did Capaldi have a catch phrase? I vaguly remember shut up a couple times in series 8 but that was it wasn't it? Agree tho, i mean i sort of like Fantastic & Allons-Y cos of the pay offs in POTW & VOTD but yeah most of the smith era catchphrases irritated me.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Nov 5, 2018 0:08:57 GMT
I agree with Davy and nucleus (nothing like a consensus view is there? )
Yes, Jodie's Doctor doesn't stand out as an obviously oversize personality (you could say a 'generic' Doctor if you wanted to) but that is a personality choice, in its way.
In classic-era terms (indulge me, I'm over 50 ) I think she's playing the Doctor in a similar way as Peter Davison's Fifth was to Tom's unforgettable Fourth. Some people then said he (Fifth) wasn't an especially exciting Doctor or one who stood out in any way, and after the two vast personas of the Third and Fourth Doctors (and oh boy, before the Sixth!) that might have been true in some ways.
But he was a much more 'human' and relatable Doctor than they were and I liked him and his era even though I'd loved the Tom years and of course Jon Pertwees' magnificently flamboyant Third was and is 'my' Doctor.
Jodie is playing the Doctor as enthusastic, inquisitive, full of the joy of travel and the company of friends and I like it, even though I also liked the sizeable personality of the Capaldi Doctor very much indeed.
If I was to pick out one characteristic that says 'Jodie's Doctor' to me, it's the sudden, brilliant rushes of deductive reasoning, sometimes so fast that as a viewer I feel I can hardly keep up - and why not? The Doctor is an alien genius and has always been like this - except most Doctors kept their thinking to themselves (cue: air of mystery) before revealing the truth to their suitably astonished Companions.
Jodie's Doctor says it as she thinks it, like the scene in 'Rosa' where she almost literally ran rings around Krasko, inspecting him, explaining him, disarming him and warning him off all in the blink of an eye. It had the side-effect of making him look even more of a cardboard character than ever, but that's by the by! She was great doing it.
Absolutely. Jodie is doing the best to inject personality into the role but I think it's the writing that's letting her down a bit. For all we joke about my lack of love for Pertwee I truly admire the persona of the Third Doctor. He's unique and you couldn't switch his stories with another Doctor. You wouldn't be able to put Troughton in The Ambassadors Of Death and likewise you couldn't have Pertwee in Talons. He had his personality and character and it was 100% Pertwee. Wheras that scene with Krasko....we can imagine other Doctors doing it pretty much the same way. I could easily see Matt in that scene in particular. On Davison though, I've never found his Doctor bland, though I see why some do. I love the Season 19 dynamic and Davison's Doctor being quietly miffed most of the time is something I really love. He finds the dry comedy in the persona despite JNT and Bidmead trying to get rid of any trace of humour. By Season 21 Davison was much more "Doctorish". Frontios isn't a great story but Davison is stunning in it. In many ways replacing Tom was one of the toughest gigs any actor to play the part has had. Again, I like what Jodie does with what she's given....I just don't think she's given anything particularly meaty or new. These are only fannish reservations though - the casual fans I know are happy to see a fun Doctor again after tuning out for Capaldi (my fave). Jodie acting Tennant-like isn't something that bothers the casuals, they just want some fun adventure and they're getting that. But for fans like us who own it all, have hundreds of DVDs, blurays, books and audios....there's not anything there yet in the characterisation that is really unique and fresh. It's all very safe. Maybe that's Chibnall's vision - the story, the adventure and the family unit in the companions (sorry, "friends") becomes the focus and not so much the title character. It's early days but I'm not getting even a hint of what will make Jodie's Doctor stand out in the baker's dozen of Doctors. Basically agree with every word about the Pertwee and Davison Doctors and from his lighter beginnings the Fifth Doctor developed in ways he found disturbing and faced up to at the end of 'Revelation', my second favourite (surviving) classic Dalek story. ('Genesis' is first, obviously! )
Also agree about the 'safe' approach they are taking with the new series/Doctor so far and that there isn't anything exceptionally new - except yes the friends (they're Companions, harrumph! ) taking more prominence and so far that's been good.
But I think the 'safe' approach is a deliberate choice rather than an absence of distinctive features - reassuringly be The Doctor; be fun, likeable, caring, brave, incredibly intelligent and ready to help. Don't try anything too daring, and show fans such as me (who were doubtful about a female Doctor but willing to give it a go) that this IS the Doctor and that the show and the character are in good hands. And so far, for me at least, Jodie is doing a great job of that and the stories are generally doing well too.
EDIT: 'Revelation'?? I've done it again, I meant of course 'Resurrection'.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 5, 2018 0:26:02 GMT
Both are accurate. I heard him say the version I quoted at a reading he gave at Tulane University 30 plus years ago.
Ah, lucky you. I've been working my way through the various collections of articles he wrote. For all the insanity, I find him incredibly insightful. He's also got quite the way with words.... One of the great writers of the 20th century. I find Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trial to be the best book about politics ever written and The Great Shark Hunt with its essay on the Kentucky Derby remains one of my favorite things ever written.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Nov 5, 2018 9:27:53 GMT
Re. my earlier post: 'Revelation of the Daleks' with Peter Davison?? No, ' Resurrection of the Daleks'.
For some reason which escapes me, I've been transposing those titles for 30 years, and counting!
|
|
|
Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 5, 2018 12:57:50 GMT
I don't know, I got a lot of laughter over the ridiculousness of a spider scuttling around while Stormzy played in the background. & the target audience probably wouldn't have a clue who Def Leppard were. Tbf i didnt know who the rapper was until this thread lol
|
|
|
Post by stcoop on Nov 5, 2018 13:58:03 GMT
Final TV Figure: 7.974m Final Total Figure: 8.220m
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 17:04:10 GMT
Final TV Figure: 7.974m Final Total Figure: 8.220m
I'll be honest. I never thought I'd see ratings like that again for Doctor Who, especially for a 'regular' episode. Very happy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 17:09:34 GMT
Speaking of characterizations......I do hope the "I say dude now" bit does not indicate a continued focus on catch-phrases. I never really liked that about any of the new who. Why does someone need a catch phrase? Just because Tom Baker had hilarious timing/delivery with his jelly baby bit?
Fantastic! Allons-Y! Bowties are cool! Stupid face (companion)! Etc. Enough....
Did Capaldi have a catch phrase? I vaguly remember shut up a couple times in series 8 but that was it wasn't it? Agree tho, i mean i sort of like Fantastic & Allons-Y cos of the pay offs in POTW & VOTD but yeah most of the smith era catchphrases irritated me. Beginning a sentence with 'Question:' was the nearest Peter Capaldi had to a catchphrase for me. Not that every Doctor needs one - and not every Doctor needs to have similarly authoritative traits. To my mind, Davison, McGann and Whittaker are not big on 'authority' which doesn't adversely bother me, as long as there is interest in other areas. This new Doctor seems genuinely child-like and, well, nice - in a likeable way. It will be interesting if this remains, or the drama in future stories propels her into wider territory. I hope it does, but I'm happy with what we have now.
|
|
|
Post by glutamodo on Nov 5, 2018 23:17:33 GMT
Back to this particular episode, I know, I'm late, I guess I never did comment on this one. As plenty others have said, it was OK, but it rather needed another 10+ minutes to properly wrap up the story. (about 12 minutes from the end I seriously thought that it was going to have to be a cliffhanger, even though we've been told there aren't going to be any of them this year)
I don't like spiders but I will say I don't automatically smoosh them - I have gone and caught (inside) and released (outside) a fair amount of spiders over the years.
|
|
|
Post by agentten on Nov 7, 2018 0:41:48 GMT
I liked this one overall. The Trump stuff was a bit heavy-handed to me and it kept pulling me out of the story. However, I did appreciate the focus on Yaz. Meeting her family was fun and all of the character work on the companions continues to be a big asset to this season. I felt the strongest element in the episode was the Doctor's compassion for the spiders. All life is precious to her and she wears it on her sleeve, which is a lovely thing to emphasize in an episode like this one where the spiders could otherwise be seen as simply monstrous.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Dec 3, 2018 20:11:57 GMT
28 Day Ratings
8.7 Million
Regards
mark687
|
|