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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 2:25:34 GMT
I hate to say it but that was awful. Hope nobody from Nintendo sees it or the BBC might get a copyright infringement lawsuit. After watching that episode, I think sueing would be too good for them...
Dreadful, simply dreadful. Boring attempted 'suspense' story full of talking, rubbish squit of a (forgive my misuse of the word) "monster", truly dire 'male pregnancy' strand made survivable only because Ryan and Graham are so good.
I gave it two stars only because I loved the Doctor's scene with Yas teaching us about anti-matter, one gem in a heap of junk.
Thank goodness that was the fifth episode so we already know this season can be so much better. What a horrible waste of time, money and (acting) talent. Wake me up when we get to the Punjab.
I thought you'd at least single out the classic Silurian cameo for mention. This week's fan-nodding tit-bit.
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Post by number13 on Nov 5, 2018 2:31:23 GMT
After watching that episode, I think sueing would be too good for them...
Dreadful, simply dreadful. Boring attempted 'suspense' story full of talking, rubbish squit of a (forgive my misuse of the word) "monster", truly dire 'male pregnancy' strand made survivable only because Ryan and Graham are so good.
I gave it two stars only because I loved the Doctor's scene with Yas teaching us about anti-matter, one gem in a heap of junk.
Thank goodness that was the fifth episode so we already know this season can be so much better. What a horrible waste of time, money and (acting) talent. Wake me up when we get to the Punjab.
I thought you'd at least single out the classic Silurian cameo for mention. This week's fan-nodding tit-bit. Thanks for that Davy, I must have been rolling my eyes so much by then that I missed it!
Seriously, my attention was wandering by that point. I know when it must have been but I'll have to go back and find it. Thank goodness for clickable timelines, I couldn't watch all that again! (And just when I was enjoying the series too.)
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Nov 5, 2018 3:01:40 GMT
I thought it was alright, but they tried to cram a bit too much in. In places it works and there's a lot of creative elements, but some of the more emotional moments fell flat for me because they move too quickly to soak in.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 6:30:14 GMT
I had to go listen to “Iterations Of I” to hear how a good well story should be and purge that particular episode from my mind. we have a female Doctor-tick,Diversity-tick oh let’s add male pregnancy (but miss out the Real how it was achievable or could be achievable)because we are a real hip and up to the minute show with our finger on the pulse-tick.Possible Eugenics discussion -tick Good not wobbly sets-tick.throw in some real science with CERN-tick.Men can only have males women females....men can only write male characters and then females can only write females-tick .There is so much about this episode I actually detest. Let’s forget about good story telling-tick. Work done.
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Post by relativetime on Nov 5, 2018 6:35:32 GMT
It was... pretty average, overall. Nothing that made me mad but nothing particular that really grabbed me. The first ten minutes were the most engaging. The main crew was great as always, but the supporting characters weren't particularly noteworthy. The production's still pretty good - really loved that opening shot. Annnnddd... that's about it. Just an inoffensive, average episode of Doctor Who.
Next week's episode looks more like my type of episode, though!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 6:48:57 GMT
That was horrendous ! Manic, boring, badly acted, and ridiculously silly, I struggled to get through to the end. Loved the little alien guy though.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 5, 2018 7:05:01 GMT
I really don't understand the hate for this one, other than some people being "allergic" to "cutesy" aliens. But at the same time, I don't get the love for it, either. It's just...mediocre at best. Not bad, but nothing great. It's certainly nowhere near as bad as Fear Her, Evolution of the Daleks or some of the rest of the worst of NuWho, let alone the classic show. It's just kinda there, and if this and Arachnids are as bad as Series 11 gets, then we're in for one of the better seasons in recent memory.
But seeing people complain - mostly elsewhere - about this episode's "PCness," I get that even less. Is it the male pregnancy? If so, well, it's been done in Star Trek, Quantum Leap, Sliders, Red Dwarf, and a myriad host of other things, going back over half a century to both old pulps and old masters of sci-fi, so... yeah, no. Beyond that, I don't see anything that would set off any "it's so PC now" ranting.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 5, 2018 7:45:24 GMT
Well, it obviously wasn't perfect, but it was still very enjoyable and genuinely suspenseful to watch. (I think I tend to agree with nucleus' suspicions that maybe Chibnall managed to get himself spread a bit thin over this and the previous episode).
I wish there were some consensus criticisms emerging but it seems like different people find different faults with it? I think what bugged me most was a) the science, which hit me like "Let's just be lazy and steal from Star Trek, kids will never know"*, b) there was a character that I wished had survived and I thought it was kind of lame for them to be sacrificed at the altar of a "birth-death" story, c) I thought it seemed uncharacteristic of Graham to make a flippant remark to Ryan about the tech stuff, and last but not least d) after going far out of her way to avoid squishing giant killer spiders and so forth, it seemed particularly uncharacteristic of The Doctor to accept or engineer the particular resolution.
(*Do not ever do "Kids won't know the difference" in something I watching. Yes they will know the difference because I'll flippin' tell them if I have to, how's that? Treating your audience like they're not as bright as you are couldn't possibly ever be a good idea).
Also, I hated the way the pillaged tech undermined what was becoming a wonderful trademark of Thirteen, which is that child-like sense of wonder and curiosity like I'm not sure we've had since Hartnell and I am SO delighted to see it again - here, though, that seemed kind of squandered on something copied off Roddenberry's term paper. With all that Gallifreyans know about vortices and dimensional transcendence and temporal mechanics and such, I can't find any speck of realism in The Doctor being wide-eyed impressed with antimatter. The TARDIS blows the doors right off the Enterprise and everyone knows it - except The Doctor this week.
Better off to just make up stuff like artron thingamabobs that science buffs can't take offense with, than to get conventional science wrong or make conventional science the subject of misplaced sentiments.
I will say I was pleasantly surprised at how little I winced at a male pregnancy, I guess I can just take that as part of the quirkiness of the series and it was probably rather well handled overall for me to be able to say that. No trouble with a cute monster either, I didn't strain to take the P'ting seriously like I'd have to do with the Adipose, and I think it came across loud and clear that they're really not cute, they just look that way - got it.
Oh, and maybe I should say that I think for me it's becoming a trademark positive trait of this Doctor the way she distributes responsibility - I rather like that, although perhaps she's almost at risk of making previous Doctors look a faint shade like grand-standing males with it. If ever there was a Doctor who seemed anything of a team player in spite of still having to be the one to make things work in the end, somehow it's already Thirteen in my book. I think it's generally been very well executed that she's never seemed bossy with it, and this week was still no exception, and I like how it affords focus on other characters even within the confines of the runtime.
All that said, I think the episode still had a lot to offer, as does the season. For perspective, I returned to watching TV episodes as they air only with Capaldi's second season, and my conditioned approach to the whole New Series has been that it's going to be worthwhile, probably great, but there are guaranteed to be cringeworthy moments somewhere in every episode, and there usually were. To Chibnall's credit, although I've done my share of wincing, I have not cringed once this season, and I am looking forward to the next episode this season like I haven't done since Colin was the TV Doctor - what more could I really want?
Maybe "vanilla" isn't that bad a color? At least for this season it feels like a very welcome change.
I'd give The Tsuranga Conundrum a 5 for how entertaining I thought it was (moreso than Arachnids), but I couldn't give it more than a 4 overall given some of my complaints. That is still consistently high marks for Chibnall from me, though. Probably have been lots better if they'd gotten Dorney to write it, but oh hell, wouldn't everything? :-)
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 5, 2018 8:56:41 GMT
Well, it obviously wasn't perfect, but it was still very enjoyable and genuinely suspenseful to watch. (I think I tend to agree with nucleus' suspicions that maybe Chibnall managed to get himself spread a bit thin over this and the previous episode). I wish there were some consensus criticisms emerging but it seems like different people find different faults with it? I think what bugged me most was a) the science, which hit me like "Let's just be lazy and steal from Star Trek, kids will never know"*, b) there was a character that I wished had survived and I thought it was kind of lame for them to be sacrificed at the altar of a "birth-death" story, c) I thought it seemed uncharacteristic of Graham to make a flippant remark to Ryan about the tech stuff, and last but not least d) after going far out of her way to avoid squishing giant killer spiders and so forth, it seemed particularly uncharacteristic of The Doctor to accept or engineer the particular resolution. (*Do not ever do "Kids won't know the difference" in something I watching. Yes they will know the difference because I'll flippin' tell them if I have to, how's that? Treating your audience like they're not as bright as you are couldn't possibly ever be a good idea). Also, I hated the way the pillaged tech undermined what was becoming a wonderful trademark of Thirteen, which is that child-like sense of wonder and curiosity like I'm not sure we've had since Hartnell and I am SO delighted to see it again - here, though, that seemed kind of squandered on something copied off Roddenberry's term paper. With all that Gallifreyans know about vortexes and temporal mechanics and such, I can't find any speck of realism in The Doctor being impressed with antimatter. The TARDIS blows the doors right off the Enterprise and everyone knows it - except The Doctor this week. Better off to just make up stuff like artron thingamabobs that science buffs can't take offense with, than to get conventional science wrong or make conventional science the subject of misplaced sentiments. I will say I was pleasantly surprised at how little I winced at a male pregnancy, I guess I can just take that as part of the quirkiness of the series and it was probably rather well handled overall for me to be able to say that. No trouble with a cute monster either, I didn't strain to take the P'ting seriously and I think it came across loud and clear that they're not cute, they just look that way - got it. Oh, and maybe I should say that I think for me it's becoming a trademark positive trait of this Doctor the way she distributes responsibility - I rather like that, although perhaps she's almost at risk of making previous Doctors look a faint shade like grand-standing males with it. If ever there was a Doctor who seemed anything of a team player in spite of still having to be the one to make things work in the end, somehow it's already Thirteen in my book. I think it's generally been very well executed that she's never seemed bossy with it, and this week was still no exception, and I like how it affords focus on other characters even within the confines of the runtime. All that said, I think the episode still had a lot to offer, as does the season. For perspective, I returned to watching TV episodes as they air only with Capaldi's second season, and my conditioned approach to the whole New Series has been that it's going to be worthwhile, probably great, but there are guaranteed to be cringeworthy moments somewhere in every episode, and there usually were. To Chibnall's credit, although I've done my share of wincing, I have not cringed once this season, and I am looking forward to the next episode this season like I haven't done since Colin was the TV Doctor - what more could I really want? Maybe "vanilla" isn't that bad a color? At least for this season it feels like a very welcome change. I'd give The Tsuranga Conundrum a 5 for how entertaining I thought it was (moreso than Arachnids), but I couldn't give it more than a 4 overall given some of my complaints. That is still consistently high marks for Chibnall from me, though. Probably have been lots better if they'd gotten Dorney to write it, but oh hell, wouldn't everything? :-)
I understand your criticisms, but if I may, I'd like to offer a few observations, some in counterpoint to yours:
A) Doctor Who and Star Trek have been "stealing ideas from each other" since the 80s, if not the late 60s, and this is primarily because they draw from the same sci-fi sources and traditions. Nothing new, surprising, or bad in that, from where I'm sitting.
B) I liked Astos, too, but the moment I realized I liked him I expected him to die. It tends to be what DW does.
C) Graham's comment about Ryan's YouTubing may have come off rougher than Chibs intended. I think he meant it as a spin on the typical Old Geezer Makes Comment About "Kids these days and their computers." I saw it as an attempt at the kind of banter that happened sometimes between, say, Sarah Jane and Clyde, but it didn't land well this time.
D) I don't see any problem with the Doctor's solution. She knew that absorbing the bomb wouldn't kill the creature, and neither would blowing it out into space, so... I don't get that complaint at all.
As for being impressed with the ship's "warp core," from time to time, we've seen every, or nearly every previous Doctor marvel at the brilliance of human (or other sentient beings') scientific achievements, whether it was up to Time Lord standards or not. From classic locomotives to advanced starships, an appreciation for both the science and art of engineering is an inherent part of the Doctor's character. So again, I don't see how this was any different. She took a moment to marvel at it, and let the other characters (and the audience) in on her sense of wonder. Three and Six are really the only Doctors to get consistently pompous about their scientific superiority, and thanks to Big Finish, even Six has shown great fascination and love with some "classic" human tech. It's like someone with a top of the line Lambo or Ferrari would still appreciate the Model-T, or an F-22 pilot admiring the Wright brothers. And given that this technology appeared be safe, renewable, and fueled by the act of creation unlike the destructive fuel sources of so many species she's encountered, I certainly understand the Doctor saying she loved it.
You're spot on about this Doctor being a team player. It's one of the things I love the most, one of the things that does seem to set her a bit apart from the others. And yes, though I don't find it anything spectacular, I certainly enjoyed this one much more than last week's. If I were going to cut anything from the episode, it'd probably be the android. He was the one thing that didn't get enough development to feel like he had a purpose.
Also: They called the weapons they used "stasers." Haven't stasers, up til now, been a strictly Gallifreyan weapon? And did the space station remind anyone of the Nerva Beacon or Terminus? I may be wrong, and it's a standard ring-and-tube design, but it just seemed very familiar, like it was based on something from classic Who.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 5, 2018 9:33:19 GMT
I understand your criticisms, but if I may, I'd like to offer a few observations, some in counterpoint to yours: Well, okay - those seem like some fairly reasonable perspectives to consider as alternatives. Perhaps I was too harsh - I think there really were a couple of shaky bits somewhere in this though and I think that might caused me more worry about just how much was Chibnall getting careless here, than is warranted. Maybe Chibnall wasn't trying to be original with the science? If he had a different objective such as trying to make any Trekkies in the audience feel more at home, that was probably most hospitable of him. I could just be ticked because someone stood next to a spirally thing and said "positron" and it wasn't Scottie or Data, in which case I'd be missing the point of that. :-) Also maybe the ending wasn't as careless at it tried to seem either - I dunno, this Doctor I half expected to worry about the little thing going hungry out there or something, but I guess she really hasn't strayed yet from being notably humane? Alright, probably better than I gave it credit for. Thanks! :-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 9:34:17 GMT
My favourite episode so far, tying with Rosa. Not trying to break new ground or be an event story, it's just a simple romp on a spacecraft with a day pass from death. I loved the interplay between the various members of the crew. The two subplots with the patients were rather endearing, a LeGuin story on one hand (the woes of those from Gethen) and Weber tale on the other (touches of Honor Harrington, anyone?). I particularly liked the failsafe mechanism being a brutally logical deadman's switch. There's clearly been a lot of thought put into how things work. Speaking of which, the lead-up to Astos's death has to be the first time I've noticed the music. When he dies, even though it was inevitable, there's still a kick in the chest. I was a bit surprised by who the interloper turned out to be. In a good way. The initial instinct would've been gritty soldiers, a fluffy xenomorph or pirates( !) out to loot the ship, but I like that it was just your stellar variety fizzgig out to eat your ship. That strikes me as very much one for the kids. Some very nice Blake's 7 style "box of lights" acting with the cast. Not a bad use of 50 minutes. It's a good baseline. Now, let's see what these new, upcoming writers can do.
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Post by stcoop on Nov 5, 2018 9:36:05 GMT
Once again another episode in which the villiain gets away scott free. I know this was a bit different since it wasn't deliberately setting out to kill people, but I do wonder if some order has come down from on high that the Doctor can't be seen to kill anyone, even indirectly.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 5, 2018 9:40:54 GMT
I understand your criticisms, but if I may, I'd like to offer a few observations, some in counterpoint to yours: Well, okay - those seem like some fairly reasonable perspectives to consider as alternatives. Perhaps I was too harsh - I think there really were a couple of shaky bits somewhere in this though and I think that might caused me more worry about just how much was Chibnall getting careless here, than is warranted. Maybe Chibnall wasn't trying to be original with the science? If he had a different objective such as trying to make any Trekkies in the audience feel more at home, that was probably most hospitable of him. I could just be ticked because someone stood next to a spirally thing and said "positron" and it wasn't Scottie or Data, in which case I'd be missing the point of that. :-) Also maybe the ending wasn't as careless at it tried to seem either - I dunno, this Doctor I half expected to worry about the little thing going hungry out there or something, but I guess she really hasn't strayed yet from being notably humane? Alright, probably better than I gave it credit for. Thanks! :-)
I don't think Chibnall was necessary trying to appeal to Trekkies, it was just similar. To be fair, positrons are a part of real-world science, and not just something coined by Star Trek, and even then, Doctor Who's used terms like "warp drive" and "cloaking device" off and on for years. They are the same "type" of science fiction, they come from the same origins within the genre, so there's bound to be similarities and overlap.
The Doctor said consuming the energy from the bomb should keep the Pting well fed for quite a while, so again, yeah, a perfectly humane usage of the Alien-method of disposing of the threat.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 5, 2018 9:42:59 GMT
It was meh. It has some good bits, thr Doctor’s speech on imagination for example, but also unnecessary bits (the pregnant blokevfor example) and smoke silly bits.
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Post by number13 on Nov 5, 2018 9:44:29 GMT
Once again another episode in which the villiain gets away scott free. I know this was a bit different since it wasn't deliberately setting out to kill people, but I do wonder if some order has come down from on high that the Doctor can't be seen to kill anyone, even indirectly. I think so too. Not seen to kill anyone or anything, not even oversized but still otherwise normal, unintelligent Earth spiders. The reason is obvious, but wrong thinking imo.
(The spiders trapped in the vault last week still died as a result of the Doctor's plan, but we didn't see it happen. What was it Graham said this week about looking away during the squeamish bits? )
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 9:46:44 GMT
A enjoyable adventure, crazy frog meets Alien.
Jodies smashing it as the Doctor.
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Post by stcoop on Nov 5, 2018 9:47:42 GMT
6.12m overnights.
I was expecting a little drop because of early Guy Fawkes celebrations, so I imagine there'll be a slghtly larger timeshifted figure to make up for it.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 5, 2018 9:55:16 GMT
Once again another episode in which the villiain gets away scott free. I know this was a bit different since it wasn't deliberately setting out to kill people, but I do wonder if some order has come down from on high that the Doctor can't be seen to kill anyone, even indirectly. I think so too. Not to kill anyone or anything, not even oversized but still otherwise normal, unintelligent Earth spiders. The reason is obvious, but wrong thinking imo.
Since when hasn't the Doctor gone out of his/her way to avoid killing? But, just sticking to this season, let's recap:
Episode 1 - She gave "Tim Shaw" the option to leave on his own, and when he didn't, she set off the damn bombs she knew he'd absorbed into his DNA.
Episode 2 - There was no "villain," only a planet of out of control weapons.
Episode 3 - I imagine her first choice for dealing with "James Dean" probably would've been to send him back to Stormcage, but Ryan beat her to a "solution." Episode 4 - Again, no real "villain." Nobody acting with evil intent, certainly.
Episode 5 - Same as above.
I fail to see the problem, or how this in any way indicates that the Doctor can't or won't kill when there's no alternative. In fact, I'm glad for a stretch of episodes without traditional villians. I'm in the minority, but most of the time I don't enjoy the Daleks, for example. The only times I've really enjoyed when they showed up in NuWho were the first time, Dalek, and probably Asylum of the Daleks and Into the Dalek simply because it showed us something different with them. Every other time they show up, it's kind of a yawn for me, like anything with the Borg after Best of Both Worlds and I, Borg in Star Trek.
Point is. I don't need a "villain" to enjoy a story. Maybe I'm weird like that.
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Post by number13 on Nov 5, 2018 10:03:55 GMT
I think so too. Not to kill anyone or anything, not even oversized but still otherwise normal, unintelligent Earth spiders. The reason is obvious, but wrong thinking imo.
Since when hasn't the Doctor gone out of his/her way to avoid killing? But, just sticking to this season, let's recap:
Episode 1 - She gave "Tim Shaw" the option to leave on his own, and when he didn't, she set off the damn bombs she knew he'd absorbed into his DNA.
No, "Tim" still decided to kill the Doctor and her friends despite the Doctor giving him the chance to leave peacefully, and thus blew himself up because he didn't realise what he had absorbed.
The Doctor then told off 'crane man' (forget his name) for pushing "Tim" from the crane. That's "Tim" who had wanted to abduct him and keep him in permanent semi-death as a hunting trophy. I was with 'crane man' on that one, I must say.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 5, 2018 10:11:28 GMT
Once again another episode in which the villiain gets away scott free. I know this was a bit different since it wasn't deliberately setting out to kill people, but I do wonder if some order has come down from on high that the Doctor can't be seen to kill anyone, even indirectly. I think so too. Not seen to kill anyone or anything, not even oversized but still otherwise normal, unintelligent Earth spiders. The reason is obvious, but wrong thinking imo.
(The spiders trapped in the vault last week still died as a result of the Doctor's plan, but we didn't see it happen. What was it Graham said this week about looking away during the squeamish bits? ) What do you do with that one, though? She could have loaded the spiders into the TARDIS and dropped them off somewhere, but it seemed like either it left them to starve or they'd have been introduced as invaders into a delicate food chain. They seemed to have mutated their way into a corner basically, and The Doctor just chose to let nature take its course, was all I could think of it. Maybe it's part of last week's poetic subtext that I haven't actually figured out who was the villain - whoever they were you would obviously either want to drop a book on them, or catch them in a jar and give them a sporting chance to evolve their way out of it - but that may be one of the troubles if you're parodizing prominent figures is that they may get just a slap on the wrist at the end, which was what made Happiness Patrol so disappointingly surreal for me back when I didn't realize what the episode was actually up to. No wonder Helen A wasn't sent to a galactic penal colony... Personally, I'd have little problem with the Doctor being under "orders from on high" not to kill, and I've been rather liking her little "weapons are stupid" speeches.
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