|
Post by mark687 on Jan 13, 2020 20:14:27 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. I vote you keep going thanks Regards mark687
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Jan 13, 2020 20:14:31 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. I find it interesting to know please. Every story in the Classic DVD range is presented with its weekly viewing figures somewhere and nobody complains about that. Odd how New Who has become so 'political' for some fans; the Classic era also was, later on, but at least it didn't have to contend with the joys of social media.
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Jan 13, 2020 20:15:15 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. Its merely stating a hard fact. Unfortunately it seems a case of ratings up = highly significant, ratings down = of no significance. Ratings are heading south and getting annoyed and rude with someone for posting this data seems a bit off, to me at least. Once can debate the reasons for this until the cows come home, but the hard fact is that a lot of time, effort and money goes into these episodes for diminishing returns. I suspect the audience figures matter more to the powers that be than critical reception from fans, so I do not think it can be ignored. That's misleading, at best. On a 'micro' level: for the vast majority of TV shows, viewership is at its highest for the season premiere, and then it loses viewers over the course of the season. This is kind of one of the 'laws' of television regardless of writing, acting, genre, network, or country. Doctor Who is not special in this respect, and pointing out that it loses some viewers week to week is a bit on par with pointing at the evening sky and being surprised that it's darker than it was 20 minutes ago--it happens all the time, no matter where you go, so to react as though this hasn't happened before and perhaps the sun isn't going to come back, is a bit silly. On a 'macro' level: the average number of viewers for last season was the highest average viewership the show has had since Tennant's last full year, series 4. I would hardly call that "heading south." Oh and @experience1 : I don't see anything at all wrong with posting numbers. Gives us something to talk about, if nothing else
|
|
|
Post by ollychops on Jan 13, 2020 20:19:43 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. Please feel free to keep doing it! I find it interesting to see how each episode fares in the ratings, so I appreciate you posting them each week.
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 13, 2020 20:21:51 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. Like others have said, you've done nothing wrong. It's an important part of the discourse.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 20:23:53 GMT
Thank you all for your replies, they are appreciated. I'll continue to post the ratings, and encourage anyone who feels doing so is an 'obsession' to either scroll past or put me on ignore.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 20:28:35 GMT
Would other people prefer it if I didn't post weekly ratings for this series? I thought it might be of interest, but if not, then I'll not do it in future. While I'm certainly not obsessing over the weekly number I don't have any problem with you continuing to post the overnight figures. Truth be told I've always been a little fascinated how TV ratings are worked out, starting with the viewing habits of just 12,000 people in 5,300 homes (the UK BARB panel). 😊
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 13, 2020 20:46:34 GMT
So, time for me to do spieling:
While the end message is very on the nose and hamfisted, I can kinda see what Ed (and Chris') rationale for this approach was: aside from kids being able to get it, I wonder if they both thought 'you know, we've seen tons of movies and shows try the subtle approach in telling people to do something about climate change, and it isn't working. So let's do the opposite and press it right up to people's faces'. ANyone who's paid attention to the political discourse can, sadly, attest that more than a few really don't get it...
While I'm not sure how hardcore a Who fan Hime is (even with the stronge New Adventures vibes of his last outing), I would not be surprised if he's a big fan of Twilight Zone and Serling. Both Away and Orphan very much owe alot to that morality-tale/fable style - even 13's message, while perhaps not as well written, is not that far off from how Serling would end TZ episodes in telling the audience what they were meant to take home from it. I think, aside from the end, where Away and Orphan divulge hardest is in the integration of that theme - Away had a strong running theme of grief and dealing with it, which tied all the cast and setpieces together. Indeed, it's an important story in Graham's arc and him dealing with losing Grace, giving it an anchor for all the weirdness. The climate change idea, while powerful and timely, doesn't have that same interconnected-ness or emotional anchor. Perhaps it would've better to set the story shortly after the world fell to climate disaster, with Tranquility's guests all somehow tied to what created climate change - oil types or polluters or ex-politicians who denied CC, and then are faced with the consequence in the Dregs.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Jan 13, 2020 21:15:33 GMT
That was BRILLIANT! Phenomenally scary monsters, great action sequences / settings / effects and soundtrack and a story packed with cliched characters / dialogue / situations from Disaster Movie Hell with a big helping of 'Aliens' and 'Jurassic Everything' and a MORAL MESSAGE laid on with a fleet of bulldozers, never mind a trowel (sonic or otherwise). And all played totally 'straight' by a great cast!
I don't think I've ever seen TV 'Who' do satire like that before. For a while at the start it fooled me into believing this was a typical Who adventure, good setting, bit of mystery, Ryan finding a minor monster in the vending machine (and doing a lovely spot of comedy with the Doctor to get rid of the Hopper virus) and characters who seemed natural and believable (yes, in the Whoniverse I can believe in large sentient helpful cats, no problem.)
And then we got in deeper and deeper and the improbabilities and cliches started to mount up into a towering parody of the whole sci-fi disaster movie genre - and with the wildly OTT moral message, a little bit of a cheeky self-parody of some Who (Classic and New), it must be said. Beautifullly done all round, I loved it. Thank you for this insight. This is a very interesting way of looking at it, and I would never have thought of it like that. I can see where you are coming from. I am however not quite sure if you are right... I hope you are... although I got the niggling suspicion they made this a farce by accident...
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Jan 13, 2020 21:28:31 GMT
Just finished it.
Oh my god. This was DARK. This was basically a mesh-up of Alien, The Time Machine, Planet of the Apes, Midnight and... the Tsuranga Conundrum. We have a really great scary Monster, tons of atmosphere and quite a death toll. But somehow it did jump from great creepy atmospheric bits to something that felt like "Sleep No More", just with Morlocks instead of Sandmen.
I agree with everybody saying this was too frantic. It just did not take any time to breathe and let that atmosphere hit home.
And then came the moral message. It just felt very awkward to me. I also do not think it help the issue if Climate Change deniers get compared to man-eating Morlocks.
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jan 13, 2020 21:32:14 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jan 13, 2020 21:42:07 GMT
Just finished it.
Oh my god. This was DARK. This was basically a mesh-up of Alien, The Time Machine, Planet of the Apes, Midnight and... the Tsuranga Conundrum. We have a really great scary Monster, tons of atmosphere and quite a death toll. But somehow it did jump from great creepy atmospheric bits to something that felt like "Sleep No More", just with Morlocks instead of Sandmen.
I agree with everybody saying this was too frantic. It just did not take any time to breathe and let that atmosphere hit home.
And then came the moral message. It just felt very awkward to me. I also do not think it help the issue if Climate Change deniers get compared to man-eating Morlocks.
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
YANA Literally shouted the same at my TV Regards mark687
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 22:01:54 GMT
Thank you all for your replies, they are appreciated. I'll continue to post the ratings, and encourage anyone who feels doing so is an 'obsession' to either scroll past or put me on ignore. I think anyone who doesn't think anything can be gleamed from ratings is being more than a little willfully ignorant. No, we're not on the verge of cancellation, or anything like it, but contrasting and comparing week to week are fun, fan exercises in the same way as, say Marvel and Star Wars fans will measure box office totals. Though, of course the ratings aren't the overnights any more than the box office is the first weekend - but talking just about overnights...4.19 is down around 400K on Ep 2 which is down 400K on Ep 1. That's a trend it's in no-ones interests seeing continue. BTW, the lowest ratings - both overnight and +28 - last year were both for It Takes You Away. Clearly the public hate Ed Hime! The ratings are going to be down this year without a shadow of a doubt but did anyone think they could possibly go up? S11 was skewed by the first few eps getting juggernaut figures from the casuals wanting to see the controversial casting but it made the series' average insanely high - with nothing changing this year in the cast the show wasn't ever going to do similarly massive numbers to last. I think we're seeing a more real, representative figure gradually emerging now. The interesting thing (for those of us that find this stuff interesting - as you say anyone that doesn't can skip it) is not a fall but the landing. Matt's ratings went down but were still really solid. Capaldi's went down and were quite grim at points during S10. Being able to gauge public taste in the show? How is that not of interest to people, I dunno!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 22:03:06 GMT
Just finished it.
Oh my god. This was DARK. This was basically a mesh-up of Alien, The Time Machine, Planet of the Apes, Midnight and... the Tsuranga Conundrum. We have a really great scary Monster, tons of atmosphere and quite a death toll. But somehow it did jump from great creepy atmospheric bits to something that felt like "Sleep No More", just with Morlocks instead of Sandmen.
I agree with everybody saying this was too frantic. It just did not take any time to breathe and let that atmosphere hit home.
And then came the moral message. It just felt very awkward to me. I also do not think it help the issue if Climate Change deniers get compared to man-eating Morlocks.
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
YANA Literally shouted the same at my TV Regards mark687 Did it.....answer back?
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jan 13, 2020 22:05:09 GMT
YANA Literally shouted the same at my TV Regards mark687 Did it.....answer back? That's between it and me Regards mark687
|
|
|
Post by constonks on Jan 13, 2020 22:06:46 GMT
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
YANA Literally shouted the same at my TV Regards mark687 Ha, here's what I had to tell myself so my brain would shut up: "she's been using her respiratory bypass the whole time - so when Kane says she's talking too much, she REALLY is." Also - I think that episode was alright - pretty standard fare tbh. Obviously the global warming speech at the end was so on the nose that it WAS the nose but not entirely out of place in Doctor Who. Interesting to note this is at least the third time that a ruined planet has been revealed to be Earth with Ravalox in the Classic Series and Antýkhon in the New Adventures. In all three examples, the connection is proved by a sign in a tunnel.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Jan 13, 2020 22:34:36 GMT
Just finished it.
Oh my god. This was DARK. This was basically a mesh-up of Alien, The Time Machine, Planet of the Apes, Midnight and... the Tsuranga Conundrum. We have a really great scary Monster, tons of atmosphere and quite a death toll. But somehow it did jump from great creepy atmospheric bits to something that felt like "Sleep No More", just with Morlocks instead of Sandmen.
I agree with everybody saying this was too frantic. It just did not take any time to breathe and let that atmosphere hit home.
And then came the moral message. It just felt very awkward to me. I also do not think it help the issue if Climate Change deniers get compared to man-eating Morlocks.
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
YANA Literally shouted the same at my TV Regards mark687 Of course it could be a hint to a connection to the arc and the destruction of the Time Lords. Maybe the Doctor is losing her Time Lord powers? Although I admit if it is, then it was done a little clumsy.
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Jan 13, 2020 22:42:34 GMT
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
And survive being strangled by an Osiran servitor robot - I think that was the first time this ability came up. (Yet another fact about Time Lords we learned from Robert Holmes, they owe him so much!)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 22:55:57 GMT
And another thing- what happened to the Doctor's respiratory bypass? The character once could cross a whole cave system (Caves of Androzani) and a space station (Oxygen) without breathing.
Is this part of the "upgrade"?
And survive being strangled by an Osiran servitor robot - I think that was the first time this ability came up. (Yet another fact about Time Lords we learned from Robert Holmes, they owe him so much!) One of the reasons I always love Holmes as a storyteller, aside from generally great characters, plots and dialogue (!) - is his willingness to just completely make something up for the sake of the narrative and tension. See also: completely making up the regeneration limit which wasn't intended as some great "canon-defining" event...it was just to add some tension and avoid crass recasting in Deadly Assassin. Yet a lot of the same people who gave Holmes a pass for coming up with stuff like this would give subsequent showrunners and editors a hard time for doing exactly the same kinda thing. It's like canon took about 15 or 16 years to define...then cannot be altered under penalty of angry faced emoji.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 22:57:23 GMT
Did it.....answer back? That's between it and me Regards mark687 that got me really laughing!
|
|