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Post by omega on Nov 12, 2017 6:23:03 GMT
DOCTOR WHO - MAIN RANGE » 41. NEKROMANTEIA Released February 2003SynopsisIn the depths of space a little known district harbours a terrible secret. Long known as a place of death, it claims thousands more lives as a great corporate space-fleet goes to war. As the fleet screams out in fear and pain, an irresistible voice calls out to three travellers and a macabre mind sets a deadly trap. The Doctor, Peri and Erimem face the terrors of Talderun and the wrath of a corporate empire as they struggle to understand the hideous secret of the domain of the dead, a district known in legend as Nekromanteia. Written By: Austen Atkinson Directed By: John Ainsworth CASTPeter Davison (The Doctor); Nicola Bryant (Peri Brown); Caroline Morris (Erimem); Gilly Cohen (Jal Dor Kal); Glyn Owen (Commander Harlon); Kerry Skinner (Cochrane); Ivor Danvers (Wendle Marr); Kate Brown (Tallis); Nigel Fairs (Yal Rom/Guard); Andrew Fettes (Salaysia); Simon Williams (Paul Addison); Gary Russell (Thesanius); Jack Galagher (Comms Officer); John Ainsworth (Soldier)
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Post by omega on Nov 12, 2017 6:25:36 GMT
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Post by fingersmash on Nov 12, 2017 14:10:39 GMT
This one actually starts out kind of fun. And then about halfway through episode 1 is nosedives and never recovers.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 12, 2017 14:54:54 GMT
This is my fourth listen to Nekromanteia and I still don't think it's anywhere near as "bad" as its reputation tries to make it out to be (two of those listens have been to find out what I missed that was so terrible, lol). There's a controversial event that the story could have easily done without (still not as bad in my book as doing in a companion outright), and I think it's a bit awkward the way the surprises play out in that there's one character that almost comes across as likable in places and then later I sort of feel guilty for almost liking them for as awful as they turn out to be.
Those aside, I still think it's a good story, an interesting one, and an effective one - I've never had trouble taking the threats in the story very seriously even on subsequent listens.
(Edit: Now, if I could just get over my bad habit of misspelling the title...)
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Post by omega on Nov 13, 2017 0:27:45 GMT
It's an odd one. Once the story gets to the planet the guest cast are all difficult to like, and it feels like the TARDIS team have been cooped up together for too long (the nicest thing Peri says about the Doctor is that he is usually her way out of nasty situations).
It feels like the writer was going for an Eric Saward massacre and Caves of Androzani vibe, but there's no soul to it.
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Post by elkawho on Nov 13, 2017 4:23:01 GMT
Oy. I have avoided this one for ages. Should I actually go ahead and listen to it? I'm really not sure.
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Post by omega on Nov 13, 2017 4:29:43 GMT
Oy. I have avoided this one for ages. Should I actually go ahead and listen to it? I'm really not sure. It's only going to cost you $2.99 and a couple of hours of your time. It's got redeeming qualities. I'd sum it up as a plot with potential let down by the very gritty tone and very unlikeable guest cast. Except for one or two you don't like them at some point. There's one group that could have been written in a more tragic way, but instead are cackling harpies. And hey, we've got votes across the board. Not as negative as I expected, but I never expected someone to say it was a 5.
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 13, 2017 8:30:13 GMT
Horrible audio drama, that pushes the boundaries of violence on women too far.
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Post by omega on Nov 13, 2017 8:43:13 GMT
Horrible audio drama, that pushes the boundaries of violence on women too far. What do you think of the concept of the witches keeping the equilibrium of the lodestone and the energy converter? It is rather lost in some horrible screeching, but conceptually it's interesting.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 13, 2017 12:25:43 GMT
This story didn't suit The 5/Peri/Erimem team. It would have worked and been more accepted I think if it had been a 7/Ace/Benny in the Virgin era of their adventures.
Sure there are some interesting concepts, but they either get buried or don't pan out.
And who thought it would be a good idea for a companion to nearly get raped? huh, huh?
sorry just makes me angry
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Stevo
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 5,908
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Post by Stevo on Nov 13, 2017 12:30:27 GMT
Oy. I have avoided this one for ages. Should I actually go ahead and listen to it? I'm really not sure. It's only going to cost you $2.99 and a couple of hours of your time. It's got redeeming qualities. Nekromanteia is definitely worth buying @2.99. (Every Doctor Who main range title is worth a go @2.99!) I think people get a bit carried away with the minuses of this story and ignore the pluses. I don't think Nekromanteia is half as bad as people make out. Sure, it's dark and grittty in places but we don't want Doctor Who to always be cute fluffy bunnies do we? (Of course, I did read most the Virgin NA's as they came out so I probably was used to more adult elements in Doctor Who when this was released.) I thought the first part of Nekromanteia were very good at setting up the story and it even had a Caves of Androzani vibe early on, the plot did go a bit awry later on and had too many threads which was a bit confusing, and yes the witches cackling was very annoying too, very very in fact! So while Nekromanteia is not a perfect story by any means, it's not the worst main range story out there either, as there are some interesting elements to this story... just poorly developed. ... and at least Antranak isn't going to sit on the TARDIS console anymore!
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lidar2
Castellan

You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,568
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 13, 2017 12:34:00 GMT
Not a story that's going to set the world on fire, but not as bad as it is made out to be either
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 13, 2017 13:12:41 GMT
This story didn't suit The 5/Peri/Erimem team. It would have worked and been more accepted I think if it had been a 7/Ace/Benny in the Virgin era of their adventures. Sure there are some interesting concepts, but they either get buried or don't pan out. And who thought it would be a good idea for a companion to nearly get raped? huh, huh? sorry just makes me angry Completely agree.
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 13, 2017 13:15:07 GMT
Horrible audio drama, that pushes the boundaries of violence on women too far. What do you think of the concept of the witches keeping the equilibrium of the lodestone and the energy converter? It is rather lost in some horrible screeching, but conceptually it's interesting. Needed a better writer to flesh this out as i agree it is a interesting concept a bit like Lost when someone has to stay behind, unfortunately the attempted rape or Erimem ruined the story for me, it went too far & made for a unpleasant listen.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 13, 2017 16:22:39 GMT
Sure, it's dark and grittty in places but we don't want Doctor Who to always be cute fluffy bunnies do we? (Of course, I did read most the Virgin NA's as they came out, so was probably used to more adult elements in Doctor Who when this was released.) I'm still not familiar with The Doctor on the printed page, but that's certainly my impression from reading the forums is that the early Main Range was influenced in tone and content by the Virgin NA's, as well as the early MR also being given to experimentation in general. If they did cross a line with the theme of sexual violence in Nekromanteia, perhaps it might not have been a line that was so clearly drawn previously? I think sometimes there may be a slight tendency toward implied threats of sexual violence or exploitation, where they may stand out less for either seeming a little bit commonplace in drama, or for seeming somewhat natural to the character who's making them? Maybe it was very close to the sort of thing where someone had to cross the line once to really find out that they had. My complaint would be more that there were a couple of times that I thought the perpetrator was going to turn out to be decent person after all, and I'd much rather they'd been written as clear-cut vile from start to finish, rather than compounding a controversial move with any element that might encourage sympathy toward the perpetrator. Perhaps I'm in the minority again, but I didn't mind the cackling, on top of my also not minding the Racnoss voices in CDNM. I thought it was well performed and had enough of an edge to it to stay unnerving even when you know what they're up to from previous listens and don't have the suspense to keep you on the edge of your seat on later ones. (I should give another listen to CDNM soon, if only I could take the Carrionites quite as seriously as I'm able to take these crones).
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Stevo
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 5,908
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Post by Stevo on Nov 13, 2017 16:51:16 GMT
Sure, it's dark and grittty in places but we don't want Doctor Who to always be cute fluffy bunnies do we? (Of course, I did read most the Virgin NA's as they came out, so was probably used to more adult elements in Doctor Who when this was released.) I'm still not familiar with The Doctor on the printed page, but that's certainly my impression from reading the forums is that the early Main Range was influenced in tone and content by the Virgin NA's, as well as the early MR also being given to experimentation in general. Some of them were, but because there was no Doctor Who on TV in those days it was easier for BF (Gary Russell) to produce some Doctor Who stories that were a bit different and experimental. The Main Range back then wasn't all like that, but the boundaries could be pushed a bit in some stories. For me that wasn't a bad thing as I loved getting a CD through the letter-box every month and not know what sort of Doctor Who story I was going to get! Although it is safe to say that Nekromanteia would not get made by Big Finish under current BBC guidelines!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 13, 2017 17:56:20 GMT
Oy. I have avoided this one for ages. Should I actually go ahead and listen to it? I'm really not sure. It's only going to cost you $2.99 and a couple of hours of your time. It's got redeeming qualities. I'd sum it up as a plot with potential let down by the very gritty tone and very unlikeable guest cast. Except for one or two you don't like them at some point. There's one group that could have been written in a more tragic way, but instead are cackling harpies. And hey, we've got votes across the board. Not as negative as I expected, but I never expected someone to say it was a 5. "It's got some redeeming qualities", isn't the most rousing of recommendations.
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Post by omega on Nov 13, 2017 18:04:42 GMT
It's only going to cost you $2.99 and a couple of hours of your time. It's got redeeming qualities. I'd sum it up as a plot with potential let down by the very gritty tone and very unlikeable guest cast. Except for one or two you don't like them at some point. There's one group that could have been written in a more tragic way, but instead are cackling harpies. And hey, we've got votes across the board. Not as negative as I expected, but I never expected someone to say it was a 5. "It's got some redeeming qualities", isn't the most rousing of recommendations. There are a couple of stories I wouldn't give even that to.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 13, 2017 18:32:40 GMT
Never thought too much of it, but certainly don't feel as negatively as some.
Grittiness? Yeah, well, they would have a very hard time creating a sense of danger if bad things didn't or even couldn't happen, or if they do happen, only happen to red shirts.....
There are plenty of episodes with torture, death, etc., so I don't really see the beating/attempted rape as somehow fundamentally off-limits. It was a tense moment and certainly had me thinking "wait...are they (BF) actually going to do this?" But they didn't, and other characters have been put through outright torture as noted.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 13, 2017 19:20:38 GMT
With hindsight the direction it takes really surprises me, there's a Documentary on The Ark in Space Special Edition DVD called Doctor Forever: Love and War featuring among others Gary Russell in which he says the one Editor's note he kept getting, which he didn't like was "more sex and violence", Fast-forward to Nekromantia and seemly for random reasons you have:
one female companion beaten and nearly sexually assaulted, the other's drugged, stripped and left as a human sacrifice, the Doctor gets his head chopped off and lauded over by a bored "God" who just wants to die anyway.
However it starts off with a very Caves of Androzani feel and IMO its not the worst BF ever (its not even the worse in the Erimem run that's next week) and we'll probably never have another story quite like it again.
2/5 Regards
mark687
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