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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 17, 2016 20:56:42 GMT
Sometimes in Who something will happen that makes a throwaway line 30 years previously look totally different. For example, in "Power of the Daleks", the recently regenerated second Doctor tells Polly that there's something terrible about the Daleks, something WORSE then his fear that they could destroy the colony, but he can't remember what. In light of "Day of the a Doctor" we can interpret that line as him vaguely remembering his rol in saving Gallifrey from the Time War.
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Post by relativetime on May 18, 2016 6:32:29 GMT
Huh, I never really thought of that line that way! I'll have to have a listen to Power of the Daleks again sometime in the near future. For myself, I think Peri and Piscon Paradox has me appreciate The Caves of Androzani EVEN MORE than I already did, knowing what Peri truly loses that day - {Spoiler} the ability to have children.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:18:59 GMT
Huh, I never really thought of that line that way! I'll have to have a listen to Power of the Daleks again sometime in the near future. For myself, I think Peri and Piscon Paradox has me appreciate The Caves of Androzani EVEN MORE than I already did, knowing what Peri truly loses that day - {Spoiler} the ability to have children. Yeah, not only did it manage to give the Sixth Doctor posttraumatic stress disorder and a number of psychological issues but even though he saved her, Peri still doesn't make it out without serious damage. That is brutal. I really hope they don't decide to magic wand it away and let it become an intrinsic part of their relationship. Given the line: "Peri died Doctor because you abandoned her. We had to end her life because your negligence had made it impossible for her to live," Peri and the Piscon Paradox shows that he didn't fail her just the once. In reality, his "negligence" caused her to suffer rather a miserable fate no less than six separate times. The two iterations of Peri as seen in the epilogue of the Target novelisation and during Bad Therapy may be the only ones who get a remotely happy ending out of the events on Thoros Beta.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on May 18, 2016 10:49:07 GMT
I've mentioned it before but there is a moment near the end of the first Ninth Doctor book, The Clockwise Man where {Spoiler} The Doctor gives Repple a battered Brown Leather Jacket and tells Rose he doesnt need it anymore. Since I read this after i read Engines of War, I saw the jacket as being the one he wore as the War Doctor
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Post by constonks on May 18, 2016 14:51:04 GMT
I've mentioned it before but there is a moment near the end of the first Ninth Doctor book, The Clockwise Man where {Spoiler} The Doctor gives Repple a battered Brown Leather Jacket and tells Rose he doesnt need it anymore. Since I read this after i read Engines of War, I saw the jacket as being the one he wore as the War Doctor Wow that is a fantastic accident.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on May 18, 2016 14:58:16 GMT
I've mentioned it before but there is a moment near the end of the first Ninth Doctor book, The Clockwise Man where {Spoiler} The Doctor gives Repple a battered Brown Leather Jacket and tells Rose he doesnt need it anymore. Since I read this after i read Engines of War, I saw the jacket as being the one he wore as the War Doctor Wow that is a fantastic accident. I know. I thought it was quite cool
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Post by icecreamdf on May 19, 2016 0:13:10 GMT
Huh, I never really thought of that line that way! I'll have to have a listen to Power of the Daleks again sometime in the near future. For myself, I think Peri and Piscon Paradox has me appreciate The Caves of Androzani EVEN MORE than I already did, knowing what Peri truly loses that day - {Spoiler} the ability to have children. I thought Peri and the Piscon Paradox said that at least one version of Peri did have children, while The Widow's Assassin was the one that said that the spectrox prevents Peri from having children. The two seem to contradict eachother.
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Post by relativetime on May 19, 2016 2:36:02 GMT
Huh, I never really thought of that line that way! I'll have to have a listen to Power of the Daleks again sometime in the near future. For myself, I think Peri and Piscon Paradox has me appreciate The Caves of Androzani EVEN MORE than I already did, knowing what Peri truly loses that day - {Spoiler} the ability to have children. I thought Peri and the Piscon Paradox said that at least one version of Peri did have children, while The Widow's Assassin was the one that said that the spectrox prevents Peri from having children. The two seem to contradict eachother. You may be right - it has been a couple of months since I listened to either story. I know there was one other particularly rough realization about the older Peri in the story that really hit hard. In any case, stories such as those two and The Reaping really add a LOT of tragedy to Peri's life.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 7:07:37 GMT
Huh, I never really thought of that line that way! I'll have to have a listen to Power of the Daleks again sometime in the near future. For myself, I think Peri and Piscon Paradox has me appreciate The Caves of Androzani EVEN MORE than I already did, knowing what Peri truly loses that day - {Spoiler} the ability to have children. I thought Peri and the Piscon Paradox said that at least one version of Peri did have children, while The Widow's Assassin was the one that said that the spectrox prevents Peri from having children. The two seem to contradict eachother. The Doctor meets Princess Actis of Krontep, granddaughter of Queen Perpugillium of the Brown in The Age of Chaos, so in one continuum she was able to have -- or at the very least adopt -- children. Sometime Never has Jo Grant removed from space and time altogether, only for her to be re-released back into her respective chronological placement. Given that Jo has not one, but two debut appearances, I'm inclined to believe that The Doomsday Weapon was the one that happened after she was returned back to where she belonged. The Last Chapter features a Gallifrey in the far future where the Doctor has become all, but a myth. Given what we learn of the Time War and what may lie in store for the Doctor at the end of his lives, it certainly gives one pause...
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 19, 2016 13:09:21 GMT
The biggest one for me is The End of Time Part 2 when the Doctor says 'I don't want to go'. It's obvious since Day of the Doctor that he meant 'I don't want to go because I know I'll go to Trenzalore in my next regeneration' rather than 'I don't want to go because I've grown attached to this body'.
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Post by icecreamdf on May 19, 2016 15:54:25 GMT
The biggest one for me is The End of Time Part 2 when the Doctor says 'I don't want to go'. It's obvious since Day of the Doctor that he meant 'I don't want to go because I know I'll go to Trenzalore in my next regeneration' rather than 'I don't want to go because I've grown attached to this body'. Except they made it clear that he doesn't remember meeting Eleven.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 16:56:13 GMT
The biggest one for me is The End of Time Part 2 when the Doctor says 'I don't want to go'. It's obvious since Day of the Doctor that he meant 'I don't want to go because I know I'll go to Trenzalore in my next regeneration' rather than 'I don't want to go because I've grown attached to this body'. Except they made it clear that he doesn't remember meeting Eleven. Except he clearly does remember little bits, because when the fez comes through into the under-gallery place thingummy Eleven remembers what's happening.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 19, 2016 17:49:40 GMT
Except they made it clear that he doesn't remember meeting Eleven. Except he clearly does remember little bits, because when the fez comes through into the under-gallery place thingummy Eleven remembers what's happening. Plus he mentions marrying Queen Elizabeth the 1st in The End of Time. I don't think he actually remembers meeting 11 until he is 11 but I think certain things must still remain in his memory and I'd hazard a guess at one of them being the Trenzalore dialogue between 10 and 11. It explains why the Doctor's more upset over regeneration than in other regeneration stories.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 18:00:43 GMT
Except he clearly does remember little bits, because when the fez comes through into the under-gallery place thingummy Eleven remembers what's happening. Plus he mentions marrying Queen Elizabeth the 1st in The End of Time. I don't think he actually remembers meeting 11 until he is 11 but I think certain things must still remain in his memory and I'd hazard a guess at one of them being the Trenzalore dialogue between 10 and 11. It explains why the Doctor's more upset over regeneration than in other regeneration stories. well the marrying QE1 could count as being part of his normal timeline, but I thin Eleven uses a line like "oh, this is where I come in" implying that he remembers his future self poppingout of a rift in time after a fez. I like to think Elevens entire Fez obsession arises from ten's memory of that scene.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on May 19, 2016 18:02:28 GMT
Plus he mentions marrying Queen Elizabeth the 1st in The End of Time. I don't think he actually remembers meeting 11 until he is 11 but I think certain things must still remain in his memory and I'd hazard a guess at one of them being the Trenzalore dialogue between 10 and 11. It explains why the Doctor's more upset over regeneration than in other regeneration stories. well the marrying QE1 could count as being part of his normal timeline It can't. 11, War and Clara were there.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 19, 2016 20:53:22 GMT
What the Doctor remembers of his encounters with future selves is always a bit hsndwavey vague. He probably remembers getting married but can't for the life of him remember who was there beyond "some young bloke, a young woman and an old bloke".
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Post by Shiny on May 19, 2016 21:35:46 GMT
The gap might not be quite as big in this case but the Day of the Doctor definitely made me think differently about the Face of Boe saying "You are not alone" in Gridlock.
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Post by seeley on May 19, 2016 22:33:02 GMT
The gap might not be quite as big in this case but the Day of the Doctor definitely made me think differently about the Face of Boe saying "You are not alone" in Gridlock. Not to mention it makes rather more sense than the Face's message meaning "There's another Timelord out there that you're going to meet even if I don't tell you this and he's going to die and then you'll be alone again. Ain't that a laugh!"
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Post by bobod on May 20, 2016 10:45:20 GMT
The biggest one for me is The End of Time Part 2 when the Doctor says 'I don't want to go'. It's obvious since Day of the Doctor that he meant 'I don't want to go because I know I'll go to Trenzalore in my next regeneration' rather than 'I don't want to go because I've grown attached to this body'. I think you've taking a joke re-use of a line more seriously than anyone intended. Moffat was not changing the meaning of the original line, just riffing on it for a comedy moment.
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Post by CookieMaster on May 20, 2016 11:08:54 GMT
I've mentioned it before but there is a moment near the end of the first Ninth Doctor book, The Clockwise Man where {Spoiler} The Doctor gives Repple a battered Brown Leather Jacket and tells Rose he doesnt need it anymore. Since I read this after i read Engines of War, I saw the jacket as being the one he wore as the War Doctor That's remarkable. Similarly in 2013 when the book Harvest of time came out, we are introduced to some interesting possibilities for the Master {Spoiler} Specifically a vast collection of actual and potential future incarnations of himself, including a female incarnation who is wearing a frilled black outfit and has black hair. The only thing that doesn't quite match is the vein of grey that runs through her hair, but even Missy must get old someday huh?
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