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Post by relativetime on Jun 18, 2017 6:20:17 GMT
I really liked this one. I didn't have any expectations based on Survival - though, gotta say, I'm a little disappointed we didn't get a "IF WE FIGHT LIKE ANIMALS, WE'LL DIE LIKE ANIMALS!!!" moment (though, not really). I do wish this has been a bit longer - I really would not mind sacrificing the number of episodes we get each year if we could just add twenty or so minutes to each story. This story really didn't suffer from its length as badly as other stories have, though (The Wedding of River Song, I'm looking at you).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 7:05:07 GMT
The thing with the crows? One of my favourite little quirky additions to any Who ep.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 7:38:00 GMT
I liked it. Agree with muckypup that the way the monster worked was a little confusing, but generally a fun romp with some nice lines thrown in. I really liked the scene where Bill is thrown by the Roman's attitude towards sexuality and the way it shows how fickle social prejudices can be through history (though you'd think Bill would know about Roman sensibilities given how much she likes the Ninth Legion). Maybe the thing about the Roman's acceptance of LGBT relationships was airbrushed out of the official records. Revisionism is certainly a factor, but it's more that they adopted a different mindset. Relationships in the Roman Empire weren't defined by male and female roles, but active and passive roles instead. Both Emperor Nero and Elagabalus married men and Hadrian mourned the death of his male paramour by building temples and naming a star after him in his honour. It stretched into their mythology as well through figures like their supreme god Jove and his lover Catamitus (borrowed from the Grecian Zeus and Ganymede).
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Post by omega on Jun 18, 2017 8:03:17 GMT
Maybe the thing about the Roman's acceptance of LGBT relationships was airbrushed out of the official records. Revisionism is certainly a factor, but it's more that they adopted a different mindset. Relationships in the Roman Empire weren't defined by male and female roles, but active and passive roles instead. Both Emperor Nero and Elagabalus married men and Hadrian mourned the death of his male paramour by building temples and naming a star after him in his honour. It stretched into their mythology as well through figures like their supreme god Jove and his lover Catamitus (borrowed from the Grecian Zeus and Ganymede). That general era was much more open to intimate male relationships than later periods. Alexander the Great was close to Hephaestion.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jun 18, 2017 8:11:35 GMT
A enjoyable episode overall that contained great emotion as to opposing enemies worked together to protect Earth from a even greater threat, the world could learn a trick or too from this episode.
Decent acting, nice location filming, interesting story i rate it 8/10
Not sold on Missy turning good though, the character is too far gone to be redeemed & turn good.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 18, 2017 8:17:11 GMT
Not sold on Missy turning good though, the character is too far gone to be redeemed & turn good. But then as she pointed out in The Lie of the Land her definition of good is not necessarily the same as the Doctor's.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 8:22:44 GMT
Revisionism is certainly a factor, but it's more that they adopted a different mindset. Relationships in the Roman Empire weren't defined by male and female roles, but active and passive roles instead. Both Emperor Nero and Elagabalus married men and Hadrian mourned the death of his male paramour by building temples and naming a star after him in his honour. It stretched into their mythology as well through figures like their supreme god Jove and his lover Catamitus (borrowed from the Grecian Zeus and Ganymede). That general era was much more open to intimate male relationships than later periods. Alexander the Great was close to Hephaestion. That's a very general era indeed - Alexander was born nearly 500 years before the Legio IX's last records. Would be like historians lumping us in with Tudor England.
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Post by omega on Jun 18, 2017 8:26:58 GMT
That general era was much more open to intimate male relationships than later periods. Alexander the Great was close to Hephaestion. That's a very general era indeed - Alexander was born nearly 500 years before the Legio IX's last records. Would be like historians lumping us in with Tudor England. It's a very wide period of time. I couldn't think of another way to say it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 8:28:00 GMT
Not sold on Missy turning good though, the character is too far gone to be redeemed & turn good. Surely that's the point? It wouldn't be such a long, arduous redemption if not for her crimes over the lifetimes? And even then Nardole and Bill are standing in for the audience members who think she can't be redeemed by questioning The Doctor.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 18, 2017 8:53:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:10:25 GMT
Revisionism is certainly a factor, but it's more that they adopted a different mindset. Relationships in the Roman Empire weren't defined by male and female roles, but active and passive roles instead. Both Emperor Nero and Elagabalus married men and Hadrian mourned the death of his male paramour by building temples and naming a star after him in his honour. It stretched into their mythology as well through figures like their supreme god Jove and his lover Catamitus (borrowed from the Grecian Zeus and Ganymede). That general era was much more open to intimate male relationships than later periods. Alexander the Great was close to Hephaestion. Really close, to the point that Alexander considered Hephaestion to be more than his friend, he was Alexander's other half. At the very least, they were the historical Kirk and Spock. This ideology wasn't just found in the West either. Ancient China (circa third century) assumed that bisexuality was the norm as well and heteronormativity wasn't really cemented until roughly the Republic of China was formed (late 1940s). It seems to come in waves like most things. I can't speak for Asiatic cultures (since I don't know), but the Western idea of heterosexuality as a psychological "default" seems a pretty recent one and the kickback against villainising other orientations can be seen in the same light as someone questioning other ostensible binaries, speaking from an anthropological perspective. Light and dark (vile evils done in the service of a revered good), the foreign and domestic (the number system we use today is from Arab and Indian mathematicians), the scientific and spiritual (Sagan had a lot to say on the subject), etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:31:12 GMT
Huh, only four million watching the news. Where is everyone?
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Post by sherlock on Jun 18, 2017 9:47:54 GMT
Huh, only four million watching the news. Where is everyone? Probably enjoying the good weather.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:50:48 GMT
Huh, only four million watching the news. Where is everyone? I look forward to the day when overnights aren't counted any more - they lead too many to rash comments (not you, just generally) and then are massively revised by at least a million,sometimes two, when I-Player viewers come on with the +7 figures. Of course by then the discussion of the viewing figures in long since quiet. People just don't watch TV the same way they did before catchup and streaming. Even my mum uses her sky+ and she's a technophobe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 9:53:02 GMT
Huh, only four million watching the news. Where is everyone? I look forward to the day when overnights aren't counted any more - they lead too many to rash comments (not you, just generally) and then are massively revised by at least a million,sometimes two, when I-Player viewers come on with the +7 figures. Of course by then the discussion of the viewing figures in long since quiet. People just don't watch TV the same way they did before catchup and streaming. Even my mum uses her sky+ and she's a technophobe. Oh, absolutely. I've seen small children of four or five with iPads watching pre-recorded online streams. The days of people sitting in front of the TV are long gone. The only exception there is the news, which is why four million slightly surprised me. Must be pretty nice outside. Huh, only four million watching the news. Where is everyone? Probably enjoying the good weather. Australian here, 86 o Fahrenheit is an okay norm for us, so... Just to put it in perspective, what qualifies as good weather?
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Post by sherlock on Jun 18, 2017 9:55:11 GMT
Probably enjoying the good weather. Australian here, 86 o Fahrenheit is an okay norm for us, so... For contrast, what qualifies as good weather? In the UK (well in my area, can't speak for the rest) it is currently around 20-25 degrees Celsius (68-77 Fahrenheit). It says something about normal British weather that this is genuinely good weather.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 10:07:14 GMT
Australian here, 86 o Fahrenheit is an okay norm for us, so... For contrast, what qualifies as good weather? In the UK (well in my area, can't speak for the rest) it is currently around 20-25 degrees Celsius (68-77 Fahrenheit). It says something about normal British weather that this is genuinely good weather. We tend to get a desert climate nowadays where I live (Centre-Eastish). Sharp rise and sharp fall in temperature with no autumn or spring to really speak of. It's Hot and then it's Cold. Mostly hot. Perpetually dry too, we've always had very little rain except on special occasions. It's very rare not to have a blue sky as far as the eye can see and the sun beating down on you from above irrespective of the season. Sunglasses tend to be a must when going outdoors if only to see properly.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jun 18, 2017 10:19:23 GMT
Certainly in London yesterday it was a spectacularly sunny and pleasant day. We were sat outside a café for a couple of hours with Dark Shadows fans and various Big Finish bods including Stephanie Ellyne and Kathryn Leigh Scott and it was *glorious* weather. (And Bill Nighy kept walking past. If he'd done it one more time Kathryn was going to ask him to join us.) Later in the day there were HUGE crowds in Crystal Palace enjoying the CP Festival and the sunshine.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 18, 2017 10:21:09 GMT
Huh, only four million watching the news. Where is everyone? I look forward to the day when overnights aren't counted any more - they lead too many to rash comments (not you, just generally) and then are massively revised by at least a million,sometimes two, when I-Player viewers come on with the +7 figures. Of course by then the discussion of the viewing figures in long since quiet. People just don't watch TV the same way they did before catchup and streaming. Even my mum uses her sky+ and she's a technophobe. Exactly the only figures that should count are 30 days + Catch-Up,
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 10:27:04 GMT
Certainly in London yesterday it was a spectacularly sunny and pleasant day. We were sat outside a café for a couple of hours with Dark Shadows fans and various Big Finish bods including Stephanie Ellyne and Kathryn Leigh Scott and it was *glorious* weather. (And Bill Nighy kept walking past. If he'd done it one more time Kathryn was going to ask him to join us.) Later in the day there were HUGE crowds in Crystal Palace enjoying the CP Festival and the sunshine. Sunshine in Crystal Palace sounds lovely. Shame that Nighy didn't do another pass, would've been a great opportunity to just drop BF casually into the conversation.
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