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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 10:17:15 GMT
If I were a betting man I would bet anything on the Master and Missy having a twisted romance in the two part finale. I really think Moffat will go that far and explore what would happen to time if a time traveller embarked on a romantic relationship with himself.
You can see that's the direction they're going in in the trailer with the shot of Missy and the Master dancing. Let's not forget that the new series often uses dancing as a euphemism for sex.
Also: promo pictures show more than one type of Cyberman present at the same place. It can't be anything to do with the black hole causing an evolution of the Cybermen at one end of the ship otherwise there wouldn't be Mondasian Cybermen in the same place as the other types of Cybermen as seen in filming pictures.
Missy and the Master will have a romantic relationship and it will cause time to fracture, resulting in more than one type of Cyberman appearing on the ship. It's the kind of thing Moffat would do and it will be portrayed as being as wrong as incest.
I have a feeling this is going to be the darkest, most disturbing Doctor Who story of all time.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 21, 2017 10:25:19 GMT
More likely The Master Hates Missy and want's to kill her Regards mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 10:28:14 GMT
I'm still going with one of them killing the other. Knowing Moff loves tying up loose ends, I can see Missy killing Simm so that she "creates" herself. Though Simm killing Missy would also be something I could see.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 10:32:21 GMT
I'm still going with one of them killing the other. Knowing Moff loves tying up loose ends, I can see Missy killing Simm so that she "creates" herself. Though Simm killing Missy would also be something I could see. I think initially it will be a disturbing romance between the pair, and then towards the end of The Doctor Falls they will both kill each other out of pure insanity.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 21, 2017 10:32:42 GMT
God I hope not. I have no interest in Time Lord incest. Surely there's far more interesting things to be done by bringing two Masters together than having them flirt?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 10:36:48 GMT
God I hope not. I have no interest in Time Lord incest. Surely there's far more interesting things to be done by bringing two Masters together than having them flirt? I think it's an interesting angle because we don't know what would happen if a Time Lord met himself and embarked on a romantic relationship. There must be laws of time that prohibit that just like incest is illegal in the real world, plus there's all the potential issues it would cause to time. It would be something that raises a lot of thought-provoking questions unlike a standard boring romance. If it doesn't happen it's a fanfic I would definitely read (so long as it explored it from the angle of the chaos it would cause rather than the romance itself) unlike the other cringey fanfictions that romantically pair together two characters.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 21, 2017 11:08:25 GMT
God I hope not. I have no interest in Time Lord incest. Surely there's far more interesting things to be done by bringing two Masters together than having them flirt? I think it's an interesting angle because we don't know what would happen if a Time Lord met himself and embarked on a romantic relationship. There must be laws of time that prohibit that just like incest is illegal in the real world, plus there's all the potential issues it would cause to time. It would be something that raises a lot of thought-provoking questions unlike a standard boring romance. If it doesn't happen it's a fanfic I would definitely read (so long as it explored it from the angle of the chaos it would cause rather than the romance itself) unlike the other cringey fanfictions that romantically pair together two characters. Tbh the idea of two Masters having a romance sounds exactly like the plot of a bad fanfic imo. It's hardly the most villainous plot the Master's ever done if it happens, the Doctor and co must foil the Master...falling in love with him/herself. Two Masters being together probably damages Time anyway so why is the incest dimension required at all? There's far more interesting things to be done surely, the Masters can have an interesting dynamic without a romantic angle. As for us not knowing what happens if a Time Lord embarks on a romantic relationship with their past self, I think there's some things we just don't need to know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 11:50:34 GMT
It'd be an interesting thing to explore with another character, but unfortunately, I don't think Time Lords really do romance. Andred a possible exception.
Building on that idea though, I'd love to see a story where an affair is being perpetrated by two separate incarnations who are unaware of one another due to memory loss.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 12:03:35 GMT
I think it's an interesting angle because we don't know what would happen if a Time Lord met himself and embarked on a romantic relationship. There must be laws of time that prohibit that just like incest is illegal in the real world, plus there's all the potential issues it would cause to time. It would be something that raises a lot of thought-provoking questions unlike a standard boring romance. If it doesn't happen it's a fanfic I would definitely read (so long as it explored it from the angle of the chaos it would cause rather than the romance itself) unlike the other cringey fanfictions that romantically pair together two characters. Tbh the idea of two Masters having a romance sounds exactly like the plot of a bad fanfic imo. It's hardly the most villainous plot the Master's ever done if it happens, the Doctor and co must foil the Master...falling in love with him/herself. Two Masters being together probably damages Time anyway so why is the incest dimension required at all? There's far more interesting things to be done surely, the Masters can have an interesting dynamic without a romantic angle. As for us not knowing what happens if a Time Lord embarks on a romantic relationship with their past self, I think there's some things we just don't need to know. We've already seen more than one Time Lord meet each other on-screen with Multi-Doctor specials and it doesn't really do anything to time. The Time Lords themselves even sent the Second Doctor to assist the Third Doctor in taking on Omega! We've never seen what would happen to time if a Time Lord embarked on a romance with an earlier incarnation of himself though. I imagine the damage to time would be catastrophic, and the Doctor's reaction to it would be the same as to how we react to incest: disgusting and all kinds of wrong. I really 100% believe Moffat is about to go this dark with the Multi-Master interaction.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 12:04:28 GMT
It'd be an interesting thing to explore with another character, but unfortunately, I don't think Time Lords really do romance. Andred a possible exception. Building on that idea though, I'd love to see a story where an affair is being perpetrated by two separate incarnations who are unaware of one another due to memory loss. The Doctor has had plenty of romances. The Simm Master loved Lucy Saxon to the point where he married her. I believe the Master would do it to cause chaos to time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 12:10:51 GMT
It'd be an interesting thing to explore with another character, but unfortunately, I don't think Time Lords really do romance. Andred a possible exception. Building on that idea though, I'd love to see a story where an affair is being perpetrated by two separate incarnations who are unaware of one another due to memory loss. The Doctor has had plenty of romances. The Simm Master loved Lucy Saxon to the point where he married her. I believe the Master would do it to cause chaos to time. Yes, but the norm of a society is not measured by its outliers. It's the old adage: "Do not measure Vulcan by Spock because Spock is half-human." Insanely important to keep in mind when dealing with speculative fiction. If the Time Lords behaved exactly like their renegades, why would the Doctor, Master and others have left in the first place?
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Post by CookieMaster on Jun 21, 2017 12:13:38 GMT
I'm thinking The Master mistakes Missy for the Doctor at first, hence the flirting. That's the impression I get anyway.
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Post by kimalysong on Jun 21, 2017 12:17:33 GMT
They are the same person so not sure if I can see it as a romance. Although why wouldn't the Master love themselves. Still I am sure they will betray themselves too. Okay this just sounds like some strange psychoanalysis.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 21, 2017 12:25:43 GMT
Tbh the idea of two Masters having a romance sounds exactly like the plot of a bad fanfic imo. It's hardly the most villainous plot the Master's ever done if it happens, the Doctor and co must foil the Master...falling in love with him/herself. Two Masters being together probably damages Time anyway so why is the incest dimension required at all? There's far more interesting things to be done surely, the Masters can have an interesting dynamic without a romantic angle. As for us not knowing what happens if a Time Lord embarks on a romantic relationship with their past self, I think there's some things we just don't need to know. We've already seen more than one Time Lord meet each other on-screen with Multi-Doctor specials and it doesn't really do anything to time. The Time Lords themselves even sent the Second Doctor to assist the Third Doctor in taking on Omega! We've never seen what would happen to time if a Time Lord embarked on a romance with an earlier incarnation of himself though. I imagine the damage to time would be catastrophic, and the Doctor's reaction to it would be the same as to how we react to incest: disgusting and all kinds of wrong. I really 100% believe Moffat is about to go this dark with the Multi-Master interaction. NO!
He won't even if it was post Water-shed even fliting would be frowned at I feel
Don't forget he's actually got to establish a story reason for Simm and the Mondas Cybermen before we get interaction,
1hr 42 min isn't a lot of time for 8 character focuses and a decent story
Regards
mark687
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 12:47:08 GMT
The Doctor has had plenty of romances. The Simm Master loved Lucy Saxon to the point where he married her. I believe the Master would do it to cause chaos to time. Yes, but the norm of a society is not measured by its outliers. It's the old adage: "Do not measure Vulcan by Spock because Spock is half-human." Insanely important to keep in mind when dealing with speculative fiction. If the Time Lords behaved exactly like their renegades, why would the Doctor, Master and others have left in the first place? Boredom (and also fear of the Hybrid)
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 12:49:44 GMT
We've already seen more than one Time Lord meet each other on-screen with Multi-Doctor specials and it doesn't really do anything to time. The Time Lords themselves even sent the Second Doctor to assist the Third Doctor in taking on Omega! We've never seen what would happen to time if a Time Lord embarked on a romance with an earlier incarnation of himself though. I imagine the damage to time would be catastrophic, and the Doctor's reaction to it would be the same as to how we react to incest: disgusting and all kinds of wrong. I really 100% believe Moffat is about to go this dark with the Multi-Master interaction. NO!
He won't even if it was post Water-shed even fliting would be frowned at I feel
Don't forget he's actually got to establish a story reason for Simm and the Mondas Cybermen before we get interaction,
1hr 42 min isn't a lot of time for 8 character focuses and a decent story
Regards
mark687
It wouldn't need to be post-watershed for Missy/Master Time Lord incest. They could easily do it before the watershed.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 21, 2017 13:11:37 GMT
NO!
He won't even if it was post Water-shed even fliting would be frowned at I feel
Don't forget he's actually got to establish a story reason for Simm and the Mondas Cybermen before we get interaction,
1hr 42 min isn't a lot of time for 8 character focuses and a decent story
Regards
mark687
It wouldn't need to be post-watershed for Missy/Master Time Lord incest. They could easily do it before the watershed. But that just levees flirting which is cringe-worthy enough.
No They're either out to kill each other or Missy is revealed as an alternative Master who only exists because of what Simm's doing with the Mondas Cybermen if they just team up to kill the Doctor its too obvious and a waste IMO
Regards
mark687
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Post by sherlock on Jun 21, 2017 13:21:12 GMT
Tbh the idea of two Masters having a romance sounds exactly like the plot of a bad fanfic imo. It's hardly the most villainous plot the Master's ever done if it happens, the Doctor and co must foil the Master...falling in love with him/herself. Two Masters being together probably damages Time anyway so why is the incest dimension required at all? There's far more interesting things to be done surely, the Masters can have an interesting dynamic without a romantic angle. As for us not knowing what happens if a Time Lord embarks on a romantic relationship with their past self, I think there's some things we just don't need to know. We've already seen more than one Time Lord meet each other on-screen with Multi-Doctor specials and it doesn't really do anything to time. The Time Lords themselves even sent the Second Doctor to assist the Third Doctor in taking on Omega! We've never seen what would happen to time if a Time Lord embarked on a romance with an earlier incarnation of himself though. I imagine the damage to time would be catastrophic, and the Doctor's reaction to it would be the same as to how we react to incest: disgusting and all kinds of wrong. I really 100% believe Moffat is about to go this dark with the Multi-Master interaction. This isn't dark it's bizarre. Why would the Master embark on a romantic relationship with him/herself? It's just bizarre. What would it lend to the story anyway? Endless scenes of increasingly cringey flirting and the Doctor just saying this is weird. Why do we need to see what happens if a Time Lord had a romance with their earlier self? It's not a gap in mythology that stands out in the slightest.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 13:23:31 GMT
Yes, but the norm of a society is not measured by its outliers. It's the old adage: "Do not measure Vulcan by Spock because Spock is half-human." Insanely important to keep in mind when dealing with speculative fiction. If the Time Lords behaved exactly like their renegades, why would the Doctor, Master and others have left in the first place? Boredom (and also fear of the Hybrid) Then why bring the Doctor to task and try him? You know, as you would a criminal? Twice. No... Somehow I don't buy that the Doctor and his Gallifreyan brethren are separated purely by the colour of their clothes. There's more to it than that, we've seen as much throughout all his incarnations. Both on and off-screen.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jun 21, 2017 13:23:40 GMT
It wouldn't need to be post-watershed for Missy/Master Time Lord incest. They could easily do it before the watershed. But that just levees flirting which is cringe-worthy enough.
No They're either out to kill each other or Missy is revealed as an alternative Master who only exists because of what Simm's doing with the Mondas Cybermen if they just team up to kill the Doctor its too obvious and a waste IMO
Regards
mark687
It doesn't leave flirting. They can have kissing before the watershed, just not sex scenes. That's why the new series uses dancing as a euphemism for sex.
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